ShinyGospelShoes Posted August 29, 2019 Group: Seventh Day Adventist Followers: 2 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 369 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 minute ago, saved34 said: You must be a Jehovah’s Witness The Son of the Father is eternal, self-existing, uncreated Creator (Jesus JEHOVAH, I AM, etc) in union "with" the Father, and Holy Ghost. Please do not assume, even after all the evidence I provided contrary to such an statement. I am most definitely not a member of the WTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted August 29, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 43 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.92 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted August 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, ShinyGospelShoes said: Thank you for your time. I have more important things to do than play the game of semantics. Games I don't play here. If making a joke or pun on the other hand, most have the capability to recognize it. It would be wise not to ignite a flame war. Thanks for the consideration. If you want to do a 'hide-and-go-seek' on scriptural matters and evasively so with the others, be my guest. It bores me. I'm out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saved34 Posted August 29, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,185 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 667 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/28/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1971 Share Posted August 29, 2019 11 minutes ago, ShinyGospelShoes said: The Son of the Father is eternal, self-existing, uncreated Creator (Jesus JEHOVAH, I AM, etc) in union "with" the Father, and Holy Ghost. Please do not assume, even after all the evidence I provided contrary to such an statement. I am most definitely not a member of the WTS. Forgive me for the false accusation then. Your teaching is very similar but they would never acknowledge our Lord’s true nature and deity lol. Now, where is it written anywhere that Michael created anything? Or that he should be worshiped by ALL the angels(that takes in arch, cherubim, seraphim). God the Father called the blessed Son God. Heb 1:7 In speaking of the angels he says, "He makes his angels spirits, and his servants flames of fire." Heb 1:8 But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. When has this ever been said of Michael? He is called one of the chief princes, where Christ stands alone as the Worthy Lamb of God Rev 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. Michael is an angel so he was created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyGospelShoes Posted August 29, 2019 Group: Seventh Day Adventist Followers: 2 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 369 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted August 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, saved34 said: Michael is an angel so he was created. There are two assumptions in this response. Do you care to discuss those assumptions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saved34 Posted August 29, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,185 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 667 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/28/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1971 Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 hour ago, ShinyGospelShoes said: The word "angel" simply means 'messenger' or 'ambassador', 'one sent with a message', and so Lucifer being in said position, as Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28, etc portray, makes him an 'archangel' as Jude 1:6 also relates, having abandoned his arch office., see also Rev. 9:11, the 'angel' of the bottomless pit, ultimately Satan, though not only, and see also 2 Corinthians 11:4 and 1 Corinthians 6:3, for even satan himself shall be judged by the saints. 2 Peter 2:4 refers to Lucifer's own fall. He does not call him Lucifer, he calls him satan. He was a covering Cherubim according to scripture, not an archangel. Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyGospelShoes Posted August 29, 2019 Group: Seventh Day Adventist Followers: 2 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 369 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted August 29, 2019 6 minutes ago, saved34 said: Forgive me for the false accusation then. No worries. I try not to take it personally, and it is the usual response, but if persons would consider the evidence above on who taught what, one will see that the WTS is a mixture of truth and error, borrowing from Romanism and Reformation theologies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saved34 Posted August 29, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,185 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 667 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/28/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1971 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Just now, ShinyGospelShoes said: No worries. I try not to take it personally, and it is the usual response, but if persons would consider the evidence above on who taught what, one will see that the WTS is a mixture of truth and error, borrowing from Romanism and Reformation theologies Well trying to make Michael out to be Christ is gross error no matter who teaches it. Scripture is clear that Christ is superior to any of the angels. We have record of them worshipping Christ, but none of Michael who is one of many chief princes. Dan 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyGospelShoes Posted August 29, 2019 Group: Seventh Day Adventist Followers: 2 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 369 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 minute ago, saved34 said: one of many chief princes The Bible didn't say "many". It says "one of the chief princes", being in relation to the war between good and evil, there are Two Primary "princes". There are Two Main Princes [rulers] throughout the scriptures, the King James Bible. [1.] The Good [Jesus/Michael/[E/I]mmanuel/Lamb, etc], the True and Everlasting “Prince”; who is God, even the Son of the Father, uncreated Creator: Isaiah 9:6 - “... the Prince of Peace ...” Daniel 8:11 - “... the Prince of the Host ...” Daniel 8:25 - “… the Prince of Princes ...” Daniel 9:25 - “... Messiah the Prince ...” Daniel 10:13 - “... Michael, one of the Chief Princes ...” Daniel 10:21 - “... Michael your Prince ...” Daniel 11:22 - “... the prince of the covenant ...” Daniel 12:1 - “... Michael … the Great Prince ...” Acts 3:15 - “... the Prince of Life ...” Acts 5:31 - “... a Prince and a Saviour ...” Revelation 1:5 - “... Jesus Christ … Prince of the Kings of the Earth ...” Christ Jesus is also called other titles and names throughout the King James Bible, such as [non-exhaustive, for a more complete list, see [XX] Appendix 3 – The Many Names And Titles Of The Son Of The Father - Jesus]: Isaiah 8:8 - “... O Immanuel ...” Isaiah 8:10 - “... God is with us ...” Isaiah 8:14 - “... And he shall be for a sanctuary; a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. ...” Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Side note: Having children [ie, Isaiah 8:16 - “... my disciples ...”]: Isaiah 8:18 - “... Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me ...” Hebrews 2:13 - “... Behold I and the children which God hath given me ...” Hosea 11:1 - When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt. Matthew 2:2 - “... King of the Jews ...” Matthew 2:15 - “... that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.” Mark 1:1 - “... Jesus Christ, the Son of God;” Luke 19:38 - “... Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord ...” John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:49 - “... Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.” John 8:58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 19:19 - “... JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.” Acts 10:36 - “... Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)” 1 Corinthians 15:47 - “... the second man is the Lord from heaven.” 2 Thessalonians 3:16 - “... the Lord of peace himself ...” 1 Timothy 6:15 - “… Only Potentate ...” Hebrews 1:12 - “... thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail ...” Revelation 17:14 - “... the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings ...” Revelation 19:16 - “... KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS ...” [2.] The Wicked [Satan/Dragon/Serpent/Devil/Lucifer, etc], the usurping “prince” who is a creature, created [as Lucifer] by the Son of the Father. Daniel 10:13 - “... the prince of the kingdom of Persia ...” Daniel 10:20 - “... the prince of Persia ...” Matthew 9:34 - “... devils through the prince of the devils.” Matthew 12:24 - “... cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.” Mark 3:22 - “... Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devil.” John 12:31 - “... the prince of this world ...” John 14:30 - “... the prince of this world ...” John 16:11 - “... the prince of this world is judged.” Romans 8:38 - For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Ephesians 2:2 - “... the prince of the power of the air ...” Ephesians 3:10 - To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, Ephesians 6:12 - “... against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places] ...” Colossians 1:16 - “... thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers ...” Colossians 2:15 - “... principalities and powers ...” Lucifer/Satan, has many other names and titles throughout the King James Bible, such as [non-exhaustive]: Judges 2:13 - “... Baal [Lord] ...” John 8:44 - “... father the devil ...” Having children: Acts 13:10 - “... child of the devil ...” Ephesians 2:2 - “... children of disobedience ...” Ephesians 5:6 - “... children of disobedience ...” Colossians 3:6 - “... children of disobedience ...” 2 Corinthians 4:4 - “... the god of this world ...” Revelation 9:11 - “... a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.” Revelation 12:9 - “... the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan ...” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyGospelShoes Posted August 29, 2019 Group: Seventh Day Adventist Followers: 2 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 369 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted August 29, 2019 I do desire people would read the material I present in the thread, rather than not considering it or addressing it. I gave a link to an entire study, as well as wikipedia, and an incomplete listing of the godly persons who studied the subject from scripture and gave their reasoning from such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saved34 Posted August 29, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,185 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 667 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/28/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1971 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Lol ok now you are gonna put angels and demons on the same level as the one who created them? Christ is now “one of the princes?” A war? He terrorized demons. He didn’t fight them, they begged him not to torment them before the time. He said “Go” and they went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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