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JAG**

Christendom: A "Little Flock"? No!

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2 hours ago, JAG** said:

No I do not. I never  said that I thought that. I never one time even hinted

that I believed all those who profess to be Christians are true Christians. Also

this: To ask that question is to miss the whole and entire point of the Opening

Post and all my other posts in this thread. The point of this thread and my

other posts in this thread is to say that Christendom is no longer a little flock

and no longer has just a few true believers. Lets take just the Protestants.

There are 900,000,000 Protestants in the world today. I have no reason to

believe that the vast majority of my fellow Protestants  are not true Christians.

Just consider the Southern Baptist by themselves:

There are some 16,000,000 Southern Baptists in the world today. I have no reason

to believe that the vast majority of the Southern Baptists are not true Christians.

And  16,000,000 is not just a few and not a little flock either.

_________

But speculation about who is or in not a true Christian is not essential to the

point of this thread. The proposition of this thread is based on clear Bible verses

that say with absolute certainty that the final number of the saved is going to

be HUGE-ENORMOUS. Here are just two verses that clearly say that:

Take a look at Genesis 22:17-18
God said to Abraham, "indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the
heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore . . . and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be
blessed."
 
(1) stars
(2) grains of sand on the seashore
(3) all nations of the earth shall be blessed through Abraham's descendants. (In Romans the Apostle Paul
teaches that the Christian Church is the spiritual children of Abraham.)

Compare: Hebrews 11:11-12 with Genesis 22:17-18
"By faith Sarah, even though she was barren and beyond the opportune age, was enabled to conceive a child, because she considered

Him faithful who had promised. And so from one man, and he as good as

dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky

and as countless as the sand on the seashore."

I fully understand your point, and it is to teach.  The problem with how you are going about it, in my opinion, is that you are not clear in what you are trying to say.  You just throw out number to inflate your theory, as you did in the post I responded to, and expect us to just accept it without ever asking a question, which leads me to another point - you are too angry to teach people.  One question and you fly into a defensive mode. 

Good Luck and God Bless.

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1 hour ago, BeauJangles said:

I realize Jesus did say in Matthew 22:14  For many are called, but few are chosen. ...

Beau I wanted to pick on this one part of your well written post.  There is a FUNDAMENTAL doctrine in Hebrews 6 that Paul tells us is SO foundational, we cannot have laid in  us the  foundation  of "Jesus Christ" without understanding it.  It's called a 'MILK'  doctrine....a begginner's food and it is described as "eternal judgement".

IF that is studied out, you may discover that "called" but  not "chosen" is NOT equal to being lost.   That was a misconception before  i did the study, and since i have  done it, i can tell MANY believe as I once did.   There  are a number of "triplets" that appear with reference  to the  overall doctrine of "eternal judgement" and one is:

called, chosen and faithful

the called ARE saved, when you understand the way the  Bible uses the word...and study out  the contexts where it is  used.  There are other "triplets" that bear on the same topic such  as:

slave, bond-servant and son

seeing, entering  and INHERITING the Kingdom

understanding those is  critical and  the fact so few have seen the necesssity of studying out "eternal judgement" has left a LOT of misconceptions among people who truly love Him. 

but it bears a lot of insight into this very topic.   When we realize that in the Bible's terminology  who are "called" ARE born again, this question of  overall "numbers"  is impacted......and it will be HUGE.

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9 minutes ago, OneLight said:

I fully understand your point, and it is to teach.  The problem with how you are going about it, in my opinion, is that you are not clear in what you are trying to say.  You just throw out number to inflate your theory, as you did in the post I responded to, and expect us to just accept it without ever asking a question, which leads me to another point - you are too angry to teach people.  One question and you fly into a defensive mode. 

Good Luck and God Bless.

I am clear as a bell in what I am saying. 

I am not throwing out numbers, instead I am making solid points

and backing them up with clear Bible verses that support my points.

I don't expect "us" to accept my points without question.

And I am not angry, not even slightly angry.  And I am not in

defensive mode either. 

And there is no such thing as luck (God is Sovereign over the affairs of men

and not a sparrow falls to the ground apart from His will. And even the hairs

on our heads are numbered.)

And God bless you too.

By the way, I am successful in what I am trying to do in this thread.

How so? Because any thinking reader who actually reads my Opening Post

and my other posts in this thread is never again going to feel comfortable 

saying that Christendom is now a little flock and few in numbers.  The Bible

will not permit the thinking reader to reach that conclusion.  Pew Research

says that there are 2,300,000,000 Christians in the world today which is 31.2%

of the world's population. Now the man whose mind is closed tight to anything

that goes against his "little flock" prejudices can sneer at those numbers and

can issue a personal proclamation that says 90% of that 2,300,000,000 are

hypocrites and not true Christians, but no serious thinking reader is going to

believe that nonsense. But even if 90% of the 2,300,000,000 are hypocrites,

that still leaves 10% of the 2,300,000,000 that are true Christian and that 10%

is NOT a little flock and not just a few either.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Jostler said:

Beau I wanted to pick on this one part of your well written post. 

Thanks, bro. I appreciate the input and participation. 

11 minutes ago, Jostler said:

but it bears a lot of insight into this very topic.   When we realize that in the Bible's terminology  who are "called" ARE born again, this question of  overall "numbers"  is impacted......and it will be HUGE.

Amen! I'm expecting a tremendous 'family' turn-out. 

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1 hour ago, Pekoudah said:

 the disciples of Christ are still a tiny flock. 

 

Pekoudah, I am successful in what I am trying to do in this thread.

How so? Because any thinking reader who actually reads my Opening Post

and my other posts in this thread is never again going to feel comfortable 

saying that Christendom is now a little flock and few in numbers.  The Bible

will not permit the thinking reader to reach that conclusion.  Pew Research

says that there are 2,300,000,000 Christians in the world today which is 31.2%

of the world's population. Now the man whose mind is closed tight to anything

that goes against his "little flock" prejudices can sneer at those numbers and

can issue a personal proclamation that says 90% of that 2,300,000,000 are

hypocrites and not true Christians, but no serious thinking reader is going to

believe that nonsense. But even if 90% of the 2,300,000,000 are hypocrites,

that still leaves 10% of the 2,300,000,000 that are true Christian and that 10%

is NOT a little flock and not just a few either.

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9 minutes ago, JAG** said:

 

Pekoudah, I am successful in what I am trying to do in this thread.

How so? Because any thinking reader who actually reads my Opening Post

and my other posts in this thread is never again going to feel comfortable 

saying that Christendom is now a little flock and few in numbers.  The Bible

will not permit the thinking reader to reach that conclusion.  Pew Research

says that there are 2,300,000,000 Christians in the world today which is 31.2%

of the world's population. Now the man whose mind is closed tight to anything

that goes against his "little flock" prejudices can sneer at those numbers and

can issue a personal proclamation that says 90% of that 2,300,000,000 are

hypocrites and not true Christians, but no serious thinking reader is going to

believe that nonsense. But even if 90% of the 2,300,000,000 are hypocrites,

that still leaves 10% of the 2,300,000,000 that are true Christian and that 10%

is NOT a little flock and not just a few either.

I didn't say that righteous people are hypocrites. I was saying that the holy are few...very few. The righteous are many...like the stars in the sky...and the hypocrites are no doubt also many.

 

The righteous are saved...but the holy are more than just saved, they will rule over the righteous in the nations in the next age.

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4 minutes ago, Pekoudah said:

The righteous are many...like the stars in the sky...

Agreed. Your statement is the point of my Opening Post

and the point of all my other posts in this thread. So

then we agree that the Christian church is NOT now a

little flock and NOT  now just a few. How so? Because

like you just said up there, "The righteous are many … like

the stars in the sky." --- and the number of the stars in

the sky is not just a few.

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2 minutes ago, Pekoudah said:

I didn't say that righteous people are hypocrites. I was saying that the holy are few...very few. The righteous are many...like the stars in the sky...and the hypocrites are no doubt also many.

 

The righteous are saved...but the holy are more than just saved, they will rule over the righteous in the nations in the next age.

I fully  agree with  that.  Again the doctrine of eternal judgement is very  enlightening with  reference to your assertion.  But what does that have to  do with the very  simple premise the  OP has attempted to focus on?

If we assume "saved" means "born again" ( very LIMITING assumption ) then those you  speak of  who DO go on to transformation of the  soul, recognizing and submitting to His FULL Lordship might be much  smaller than the total number who are born again.  I'd guess  it  is from evidence we see every  day  on this forum.

But the  born again will be in heaven...a vast number.  The "chosen" and  "faithful" probably will be a much smaller subset.   Being  born again is the  BEGINNING ....the Door INTO the  much, much fuller meaning of "salvation" as the Scripture fullly defines it.

Your point is valid IMO....Scripturally  supportable....it  just doesn't modify  anything about the  OP's very specific and limited question.

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Whew!  I've read this entire thread, including the fine print (which was not easy).  

This we can know for sure--that since the Day of Pentecost, when the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out upon the faithful, The Lord has been adding to His church daily.  Three thousand on that very day!  (Acts 2:40-47)  Surely, none of us would want to underestimate the power of the Holy Spirit to bring conviction to the unbeliever, to change his heart to a believing one, and to seal him for redemption.  Just this is enough for me to believe that the Lord's army is vast.  

 

 

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14 hours ago, Pekoudah said:

I didn't say that righteous people are hypocrites. I was saying that the holy are few...very few. The righteous are many...like the stars in the sky...and the hypocrites are no doubt also many.

 

The righteous are saved...but the holy are more than just saved, they will rule over the righteous in the nations in the next age.

??? 

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