Do you stand with Israel?

[Guest RevIrene]

Yes Or No?

No, under the new covenant we stand for Jesus Christ and Him crucified.  Behold I do a new thing, the old has passed away.

There is no longer any distinction between any person on earth before God.

Like Abraham we do must look to the heavenly Jerusalem, not of this earth.

Are walk as Christians should be supported by the supernatural means Christ has given us through His Holy Spirit.

Have a look at  http://www.revirene.com/NewCovenantLiving.htm

In Christ

Peter

~~~~~~~~~~~

For assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to Me.

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[nebula]

No, under the new covenant we stand for Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

[halifaxchristian]

A big, big YES!!!

[Smalcald]

No, under the new covenant we stand for Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

[Guest Zayit]

Yes Or No?

No, under the new covenant we stand for Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

[Guest Zayit]

OK, the Jew, like the Gentile, is in need of Salvation through Messiah Yeshua.

This does not negate the fact that the physical children of Israel still have a calling on Earth to fulfill.  We will see this fulfillment in the end of days.

Gentile believers are co-heirs with the Jewish believers.

So, again, as far as salvation goes we are all the same.

But as for calling, the Jewish beleivers have a unique calling.

We as Gentile believers need to win the Jews over to their Messiah.  Unfortuantely, there has been so much hatred and violence dished at them from Christians that they believe Jesus to be their enemy. We need to show them the real Jesus - Yeshua - a Jew who still loves His chosen people waiting for them to return to Him.

Standing by Israel is part of our attempt to win them over by showing them our love and support.

Make sense?

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Unfortunatly, that is not a thing of the past, it is still rampant today and increasing, and will increase more.

[Guest Zayit]

But we as Gentiles do not win anyone over. Only the Holy Spirit can create conversion in the heart of an individual, not a nation. Our work is to present the true Gospel, and definitely to present this true Gospel to the Jewish people in Israel, as much as to the Jewish people in the U.S.  The Gospel and the Holy Spirit do the work, not a bunch of political wrangling over the status of the nation state of Israel.  When Israel does wrong, I will not stand by the modern nation state, when they do right I will and do support them, just like any other nation state.

The true Gospel presented throughout the New Testament clearly show that Jesus was both God and man, that the Holy Spirit was and is part of God, that the Holy Trinity is true with three equal parts, yet only one.  This message is the ONLY saving message of Jesus Christ, all other Gospels are myths and errors and of the anti-Christ.

From what I have seen on this board, there seems to be some who have perverted the message of Jesus Christ as God as a means of winning Jewish converts, to make Christ more palatable, to take away His true divinity and part of the Trinity.  This cannot save anyone or win converts.  I don't know if this is always happening and I do stand with those who are presenting the true Gospel in Israel.

I also happen to support the current government of Israel, but not unequivocally and not for some spiritual reason, which there is no biblical support for.

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The Holy Spirit can only work thorough a loving heart, not one blackened by unrighteous hatred of Messiahs own people, that is a house divided.

Your Job as outlined by your apostle Paul is not to present the gospel to them, but rather to provoke them to jealousy, you have the provoke part down pat, now you need to consentrate on the Jeolousy part, which you can not do by foreign means. Being against them in the land the L-RD gave to them and took them out of and brought them back again and turning your back on them if you don't like what they do as a nation politically is not showing them the true love of Messiah. Hwo can you bring them to Messiah by telling them or showing them that those who called themselves by the name of the Messiah are against them? Would their Messiah be against them?

Just where do you believe that Messiah Yeshua will be coming back to earth at? New York city? Washington DC? Rome Italy ?

No, he will be coming back to his holy mountain for his people as it is written.

[Smalcald]

Well these are interesting questions, and I don't think simple ones. But I do support Israel, I guess I have not made that totally clear. Part of the basic problem is one of survival, and I think as US citizens we need and must support the existence of Israel which is not something the countries around Israel wish to do, so yes in that I totally support Israel and its need for self defense and survival. But that has nothing to do with salvation, which was won for all believers, Jews and Gentiles alike 2000 years ago on the cross. When Israel spies on the US with people like Pollard I will not stand with Israel. So my support is not unequivocal and support of all of the actions of the political party in control of Israel is not an obligation of Christians around the world. But nations are not converted, individual people are, individual souls are converted. Supporting or not supporting the actions of the current political system in Israel has nothing to do with that salvation process.

But when Christ returns, it will be as lightening from the East to the West, every human soul, living and dead will see Him, every nation will see Him, including those people living in Israel, but also Rome and New York and Calcutta, we don't need to worry about where He will land as if He were some sort of visiting alien, and we might miss Him.

Once again I won't bring them to Messiah, the Holy Spirit will, the Gospel will, our role is to present the Gospel as best as we can in both word and deed, and you are exactly correct anti-Semitism is not doing that, it is perverting the Gospel.

[Guest shiloh357]

From what I have seen on this board, there seems to be some who have perverted the message of Jesus Christ as God as a means of winning Jewish converts, to make Christ more palatable, to take away His true divinity and part of the Trinity. This cannot save anyone or win converts. I don't know if this is always happening and I do stand with those who are presenting the true Gospel in Israel.

From what you have seen on this board...? You seem to imply that it is commonplace on this board to deny Jesus' Divinity in order to win Jewish people. Can you demonstrate who on this board is doing that? Can you post a few examples of posts of people taking away Jesus' true Divinity to make Christ more palatable to the Jewish people?

I also happen to support the current government of Israel, but not unequivocally and not for some spiritual reason, which there is no biblical support for.

You don' support Israel "unequivocally?" I think the word you meant to use was "unconditionally." "Unequivocal" means to be without ambiguity. I do not unconditionally support everything Israel does, either. That is not EVEN the point, though. There is a difference between unconditional support and unconditional love. We, who are Christian Zionists, love Israel even if we don't agree with what Israel does. One of the most consistent canards we have thrown at us is that Christian Zionists support everything Israel does, no matter what. Even though it has been demonstrated to be false, that mischaracterization it still leveled against us.

Unconditional love for Israel is scriptural. God Himself claims that He is Zealous for Zion. He says that Israel is the apple of His eye. He calls upon us to pray for the peace of Jerusalem, he commands the nations to speak words of comfort to Israel. Those who seek to be a blessing to Israel, will gain God's favor. Those who seek to defame Israel, who denigrate Israel will find themselves under God's judgement.

[Guest yod]

From what I have seen on this board, there seems to be some who have perverted the message of Jesus Christ as God as a means of winning Jewish converts, to make Christ more palatable, to take away His true divinity and part of the Trinity. This cannot save anyone or win converts. I don't know if this is always happening and I do stand with those who are presenting the true Gospel in Israel.

From what you have seen on this board...? You seem to imply that it is commonplace on this board to deny Jesus' Divinity in order to win Jewish people. Can you demonstrate who on this board is doing that? Can you post a few examples of posts of people taking away Jesus' true Divinity to make Christ more palatable to the Jewish people?

I also happen to support the current government of Israel, but not unequivocally and not for some spiritual reason, which there is no biblical support for.

You don' support Israel "unequivocally?" I think the word you meant to use was "unconditionally." "Unequivocal" means to be without ambiguity. I do not unconditionally support everything Israel does, either. That is not EVEN the point, though. There is a difference between unconditional support and unconditional love. We, who are Christian Zionists, love Israel even if we don't agree with what Israel does. One of the most consistent canards we have thrown at us is that Christian Zionists support everything Israel does, no matter what. Even though it has been demonstrated to be false, that mischaracterization it still leveled against us.

Unconditional love for Israel is scriptural. God Himself claims that He is Zealous for Zion. He says that Israel is the apple of His eye. He calls upon us to pray for the peace of Jerusalem, he commands the nations to speak words of comfort to Israel. Those who seek to be a blessing to Israel, will gain God's favor. Those who seek to defame Israel, who denigrate Israel will find themselves under God's judgement.

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Shiloh,

Anyone who would post those kinds of comments has never read the whole Bible. Maybe you should give him the scripture references?

Zechariah 8 would be a good starting place....Then psalm 122.....

If anyone can remove the stars and the sun, if he can stop the day and the night....then God will reject Jacob and break His covenant with Israel.

That's in Jeremiah