What Noah Could Have Said But Didn't

[Fisher of Men]

That's exactly what you need to start doing, rejecting Satan's lies that are denying the need of submission for salvation. Jesus became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

Obeying him on a continual basis equals salvation.

Disobeying him on a continual basis equals damnation.

Hence your works of disobedience and non submission will result in death as your works of submitting to Christ to work through you will result in salvation.

It's works one way or another.

Just like Jesus said:

John 5:

26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Edited June 26, 2005 by Fisher of Men

[Guest shiloh357]

Even if I quote plainly worded statements by Paul such as Rom. 8:13 1 Cor. 6:9 as he speaks to Christians, the unstable will find ways to wrest such writings speaking lies in hypocrisy due to the doctrines of devils that have seared their conscious to cause them to believe that what they do will have no bearing or whether or not they will be saved ultimately since enduring to the end is required for that. Enduring; abiding in him and not going back to the vomit, which happens to be what is being served on the tables of much of modern day false professing Christianity

Its just that when proper hermeneutics are applied to the verses you ripped out their context, one can see that they are not addressing what you claim.

Not only do you quote them out of context, in most cases you only quoted PART of the verses.

You are not preaching biblical Christianity.

[Fisher of Men]

Even if I quote plainly worded statements by Paul such as Rom. 8:13 1 Cor. 6:9 as he speaks to Christians, the unstable will find ways to wrest such writings speaking lies in hypocrisy due to the doctrines of devils that have seared their conscious to cause them to believe that what they do will have no bearing or whether or not they will be saved ultimately since enduring to the end is required for that. Enduring; abiding in him and not going back to the vomit, which happens to be what is being served on the tables of much of modern day false professing Christianity

Its just that when proper hermeneutics are applied to the verses you ripped out their context, one can see that they are not addressing what you claim.

Not only do you quote them out of context, in most cases you only quoted PART of the verses.

Your handling of the Scriptures is sloppy and inept. You are not preaching biblical Christianity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Shiloh,

That is exactly what I believe you are doing.

The truth happens to be stronger than a lie. What is your definition of hermeneutics?

Cleverly devised reasoning that shows how to contradict what is plainly worded?

Your hermeneutics are an insult to the poor to whom the gospel is preached and who will take them at their context and face value to be understood that if we do not submit to Christ but rather walk in the lust of the flesh we will go to hell.

Please show everyone how you wrest Rom. 8:13 which is a plainly worded warning to Christians.

[Guest NewPilgrim]

Fisher, you clearly have no understanding of the difference between obedience and labour. You labour to maintain your salvation and your vain efforts are no more effective than that of Islam. We, the saved, serve Yeshua out of love and obedience not to earn the prize, but to serve the one whom loves us and whom trully we love. James said that faith without works is dead and likewise works without faith mean nothing. Those words serve us all well, becuase by this we shall know them, that they both proclaim Him to be Lord and serve him with good works, NOT for their own ends, but for their love and obedience for Yeshua. While you continue to serve yourself with your good works in the name of God in the earnest hope of achieving salvation, you will never find it. Only when you fully submit to God and realise that your life is worthless, only then will you find a real relationship with God and only then will you know what obedience trully is.

[Kabowd]

That's exactly what you need to start doing, rejecting Satan's lies that are denying the need of submission for salvation.

Uh..I was referring to you. You are teaching a false gospel, heresy...it's a lie from the pit of hell. I'm rejecting you and the lies you are spewing all over this board.

Jesus became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

Scripture? I don't see in John 3:16 that salvation is only offered to those who will obey.

Obeying him on a continual basis equals salvation.

Disobeying him on a continual basis equals damnation.

Do you obey all the time? What about the plagiarism you're guilty of with posting the articles you posted and disguising them as your own? Oops...guess you're going to hell for that.

[Kabowd]

Just for you Fisther:

Plagiarize \'pla-je-,riz also j - -\ vb -rized; -riz

[Guest shiloh357]

Your hermeneutics are an insult to the poor to whom the gospel is preached and who will take them at their context and face value to be understood that if we do not submit to Christ but rather walk in the lust of the flesh we will go to hell.

Please show everyone how you wrest Rom. 8:13 which is a plainly worded warning to Christians.

Starting at verse 1:

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

(Romans 8:1-2)

We begin by understanding that Paul has been developing a line of thought of which Romans 8 is the final point. From Romans 1:1 to 5:11, Paul is been talking about sins and the blood of Jesus. From Romans 5:12 to the end of Romans 8 Paul is dealing with the sin principle and the power of the cross to deliver us from sin.

That is overlying context, in Romans 8, deliverance from the power of sin, or the Law of Sin and death. Everything Paul is saying must be understood within that context.

In the 1st two verses of chapter 8, we notice that Paul divides the Christian life into two parts, objective and subjective. We are either in Christ or not (objective) and we are either walking in the Spirit or walking in the flesh. Walking in the flesh as it is used here does not mean committing sin. It is has to do with whether a person is saved or not.

If you are in Christ positionally then you are walking after the Spirit. If you are not in Christ, then are walking after the flesh. Paul makes a similar dichotomy in Romans 6. You are either in Adam or In Christ, a servant of sin or servant of righteousness, under the Law or under Grace. These are positional statements and Paul is making a similar dichotomy here. It is also known as "positional justification."

People make the common mistake of taking Paul's statements in this chapter to mean: Walking after the Spirit = doing what is right. Walking after the flesh = committing sin. That is not how Paul is using these terms. Walking after the flesh is another way of saying "under the law" or simply saying that a person is not born again. It is not used here as reference to conduct. As it used in Romans 8, walking after the flesh, or walking after the Spirit has to do with what God sees. If we are not born again, God sees us as under the Law, in Adam, servants of sin, and walking after the flesh.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

(Romans 8:3-4)

Paul goes on to say in verses 3 and 4 that the Law is weak through our flesh. The law could not reform our behavior. That is OK, since the Law was not designed to reform our behavior it was designed to show us God's standard of holiness and where we don't measure up. Jesus came to fulfill the righteousness of the Law in us, who are born again (do not walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit). The righteousness of the Law if fulfilled in us, not just when we are living right, but even when we have committed sin. If it only worked when we are on top of the game, what good is it. We need the righteousness of the law being fulfilled in us when we screw up! That is when it has its greatest value. What good is grace to a person who never sins? Grace is for the sinner, the person who stumbles.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

(Romans 8:5-8)

Again, those who are in the flesh (the unsaved) mind the things of the flesh, i.e. the things of the world. They are not spiritually minded, even though they may do good things, and live moral lives, they are still carnally minded, according to God. God sees their heart, and it is sinful, irrespective of their conduct. No matter how hard an unsaved person tries they cannot in their flesh please God.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

(Romans 8:9-11)

But we who are born again, are not in the flesh BECAUSE the Spirit of God dwells within us. Our old man is dead because of sin, but we are alive in Christ, through His spirit. We are not alive because we do good deeds, or because we are the most spiritual person in our Church, but because we have been made alive through quickening power of the Holy Spirit who has set us free from sin and death. Likewise, we know that because Jesus was raised from the dead, we shall also be raised by the same Spirit that made us spiritually alive in Christ.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

(Romans 8:12-14)

We are not "debtors" to the flesh. This phrase means that we are not bound or obligated to the flesh, we are no longer slaves to its every whim and desire to fulfill them. We are set free from that which we were bound. We are now "slaves" or "servants" of righteousness. We are in Christ. Our obligation is to God, to serve Him.

If we are to take v. 13 as some have taken it, it would appear that Paul is telling the Romans that they must regenerate themselves. But Paul is talking to a people who are already saved, so that cannot be the sense. Regeneration is 100% the work of the Holy Spirit upon the heart that receives Christ by faith. These people are not trying to gain eternal life. They already have eternal life as do all who receive Christ. Eternal life is a present day possession of the believer according John 5:24 and 1 John 5:13. It has been made clear that those who live after the flesh(who are not born again), will die eternally. We are no longer bound to the flesh, and our Spirits are now bound to the Lord. It is by His Spirit that the deeds of our body (flesh) have been mortified. Salvation from beginning to end is of the Lord. He is the author, and He is the finisher.

[angels4u]

You call us all of the antichrist?

What if YOU would be judged by the words you say here?

Please give me an answer. Yes/No

[Fisher of Men]

Fisher, you clearly have no understanding of the difference between obedience and labour.  You labour to maintain your salvation and your vain efforts are no more effective than that of Islam.  We, the saved, serve Yeshua out of love and obedience not to earn the prize, but to serve the one whom loves us and whom trully we love.  James said that faith without works is dead and likewise works without faith mean nothing.  Those words serve us all well, becuase by this we shall know them, that they both proclaim Him to be Lord and serve him with good works, NOT for their own ends, but for their love and obedience for Yeshua.  While you continue to serve yourself with your good works in the name of God in the earnest hope of achieving salvation, you will never find it.  Only when you fully submit to God and realise that your life is worthless, only then will you find a real relationship with God and only then will you know what obedience trully is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

NewPilgrim,

I think you will find it interesting what Paul said about himself in 1 Cor. 9:

24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Consider also these:

2 Cor. 5:

9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

So what do Christians have to fear?

John 5:

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

2 Cor. 6:17-7:1

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Rom. 2:

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

1 Pet. 1:

14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Heb. 4:

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

Rom. 11:

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

[Fisher of Men]

You call us all of the antichrist?

What if YOU would be judged by the words you say here?

Please give me an answer. Yes/No

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Read the first post on the thread on John's test question. Those who don't pass the doctrinal test are antichrist.