The Holy Sabbath Day

[sail2awe]

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

In chapter 3 of Romans, Paul brings them before the court of God where they whole world stands guilty before the righteous Lord God. In chapter 1 the apostle reminds them of the gentiles,

[Remnantrob]

brother sail,

I can honestly say I've never met anyone like you. No one has gone as far as you have in any topics to make their points heard with such lengthy post. But keep it up, it's the only way we seekers can get something out of the Word. I was just reading Galatians because a friend of mine told me to(you know who you are ) And after re-reading it i was like wow. It really seemed like the law is of no effect any more. I was then reminded after prayer and further review that you cannot build doctrine on one or two passages of scripture (as you clearly know) you have to examine what you find against the entire word of God. I find clear teachings that the Law of God is not only still in effect but it is the character of God if you really want to know him. After reading through Romans I came across another passage that helped solidify my convictions on the law and the sabbath. I chose this version (though I love the KJV) to further express what i feel the writer was trying to say....

"After all, God is not the God of the Jews only, is he? Isn't he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is. There is only one God, and there is only one way of being accepted by him. He makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles. Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law." Romans 3:29-31. NLT

Thanks for all of your responses, they've been very thought provoking and I feel I've grown because of you guys. Thank you.

[sail2awe]

sorry about the lengths. its a really really big book. and the subject is greater still.

I find clear teachings that the Law of God is not only still in effect but it is the character of God if you really want to know him.

Could you please post these verses which you "find clear teachings that the Law of God is not only still in effect but it is the character of God if you really want to know him." regarding gentiles ? <who, as far as I can see, were never under law>

Thank you.

Edited August 22, 2005 by sail2awe

[Guest byMySpirit]

sail what does being under the law mean to you?

[sail2awe]

Psa 147:19 He showeth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

Psa 147:20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.

Lev 26:45 But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.

Lev 26:46 These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.

Psa 78:5 For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:

Deu 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

Lev 16:31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute forever.

Lev 16:32 And the priest, whom he shall anoint, and whom he shall consecrate to minister in the priest's office in his father's stead, shall make the atonement, and shall put on the linen clothes, even the holy garments:

Lev 16:33 And he shall make an atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make an atonement for the tabernacle of the congregation, and for the altar, and he shall make an atonement for the priests, and for all the people of the congregation.

Lev 16:34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

[Guest Zayit]

Psa 147:19  He showeth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

Psa 147:20  He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.

Lev 26:45  But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.

Lev 26:46  These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.

Psa 78:5  For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:

Deu 4:8  And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

Lev 16:31  It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute forever.

Lev 16:32  And the priest, whom he shall anoint, and whom he shall consecrate to minister in the priest's office in his father's stead, shall make the atonement, and shall put on the linen clothes, even the holy garments:

Lev 16:33  And he shall make an atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make an atonement for the tabernacle of the congregation, and for the altar, and he shall make an atonement for the priests, and for all the people of the congregation.

Lev 16:34  And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses.

2Co 3:7  But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

2Co 3:8  How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2Co 3:9  For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2Co 3:10  For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

2Co 3:11  For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Heb 10:1  For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Gal 3:23  But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Gal 3:24  Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:25  But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Joh 1:17  For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Rom 8:3  For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Rom 8:4  That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Act 15:10  Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Rom 7:5  For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Rom 7:6  But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 10:4  For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Gal 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Isa 1:13  Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

Rom 6:14  For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Gal 2:21  I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Gal 5:4  Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now that's what I call 'cut and paste' theology!

[Remnant]

Sail thanks for pointing out the ceremonial laws that is connected to the temple. I mean Christ was the lamb. ON the day he died, the temple curtain was torn in two from top to bottom. FOr the first time...PEOPLE COULD VIEW THE ARK OF COVENANT.....NO man was allowed to look upon the Ark of COvenant..except the HIGH PRIEST. THe Lamb that day, got away. But the Lamb of GOd had taken the sin away from the world. The temple was no more for sacrifices.. that is why we dont sacrifice anymore. THe laws of ordinance we indeed nailed to the Cross of christ. NO more sacrifices. NO more use for temples. If the Israelites build another temple and start sacrificing, he wont mean a thing. Christ has already paid the debt. No more stinking animal blood will save them from sin.

thanks again. for pointing to the ceremonial laws!

[Guest Zayit]

Sail thanks for pointing out the ceremonial laws that is connected to the temple.  I mean Christ was the lamb.  ON the day he died, the temple curtain was torn in two from top to bottom.  FOr the first time...PEOPLE COULD VIEW THE ARK OF COVENANT.....NO man was allowed to look upon the Ark of COvenant..except the HIGH PRIEST.  THe Lamb that day, got away.  But the Lamb of GOd had taken the sin away from the world.  The temple was no more for sacrifices.. that is why we dont sacrifice anymore.  THe laws of ordinance we indeed nailed to the Cross of christ.  NO more sacrifices.  NO more use for temples.  If the Israelites build another temple and start sacrificing, he wont mean a thing.  Christ has already paid the debt.  No more stinking animal blood will save them from sin.

thanks again.  for pointing to the ceremonial laws!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You do know that not just sin offerings/sacrifices were made in the temple ? And about the parochet, it was between the holy place and the Holy of Holies, so "people" could still not look upon it. Also the High Priest when he went in once a year went in with incense which the smoke covered up the ark. If he saw it he would die. Dispite the drawing of the ark being born in front of the Israelites it was not that way, the Ark was covered with layers of coverings, No one was to see it.

And what do you mean by "the Lamb that day, got away "? No, he alllowed himself the four days examination to see if he was unblemished, and Pilate proclaimed " I find no fault with this man". Then he was lead to the slaughter, and like the sheep he opened not his mouth in protest. He did not get away, else your salvation is based on myth.

The temple most certainly is still for sacrifices, its location has just changed.

And YOU nailed something to the cross???

By your post I see you really have limited knowledge of what you are speaking of. G-ds temple was not like the heathen ones, to which you have by your false statments about it have equated it to.

[Remnant]

Excuse me...Zayit The curtain that was torn was between the Holy and Most Holy Place. The Ark of Covenant is a type of the Throne of GOd. christ now stands before the throne of god inerceding for us. That is why there are two angels on the mercy seat. Wow. The temple was for offerings to the Lord.

the shekinah glory was gone...the ark was now viewed by the mulltitude. Only the high priest could. remember when they moved the ark, the movers had to walk in backwards and pick up the staffs attached to the ark.

I mean if you want me to give all the type and anti-type of the temple.

sure.

Christ died before the evening offering. If you remember there are two offerings daily, ONE in the MORNING and ONE in the EVENING. The lamb that got away was the one for the evening offering. the people were gathered for the evening offering when christ gave his life. THE earthly TEMPLE HAD SERVED ITS PURPOSE . It was finished. the heavenly sanctuary begins it ministry. now it had the blood it needed to begin the true purpose of the earthly sanctuary.

if want to know what god is up 2, study carefully the sanctary.

give me the type i will provide with the anti- type

let me give you one.

lamb - christ.

ur turn

[sail2awe]

The temple was no more for sacrifices.. that is why we dont sacrifice anymore.

Remnant

Hi Remnant, I would like to focus in on one word in the above comment. The word is the cause of so much confusion, so much mixing. The word is 'we'. I realize there are some Hebrew tribal members on this forum, but I cannot say my fathers were in bondage in Egypt when the Hebrews were supernaturally led out from bondage, so I cannot say WE don't sacrifice anymore. Perhaps you are Hebrew though, but for many spiritual babies, the word alludes to a situation which never existed. There is no we as in the nations who ever new God.

The same letters (the prison epistles) which were written to the nations, for the hope of you gentiles, which tells us that all Scripture is God breathed, and instructs us to rightly dive the word, reminds us of this fact:

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world.

Gentiles never had sacrifices to the true and living God, and were never instructed to take upon the Mosaic law at all.

Those 4 laws which seemed good to the Holy Spirit were only in place because of necessity. When you or I eat, we don't have to worry about what touched what, but back then, there was no way a Jew could take food from the same table even as a gentile. They baptized everything, ritual washings. That is the only reason the HS institued any rule of law for the gentiles whatsoever, so that by the Lord, the Lord could manuvuer the gentiles into close enough proximity to use them to 'provoke Israel to emmulation', that they might bear the fruit meet for repentance and receive the kingdom and go out unto all nations and execute Mat28.28 (I think it is). That was of course done away with too, when 'all Israel' had heard, and Acts 28.28 occurred.

I don't think people realize how dramatic it was for God to step out of Israe's picture, leaving them nothing from the OT to work with, for there is no instruction for them IF they did not receive the kingdom they had been trained to receive.

Act 28:29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

Act 28:30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,

Act 28:31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

What words? Look them up. It is heavy duty. They had been following Paul around trying to kill him, trying to undermine his every move, but now, they were blinded.

Look at the gravity of that last verse above.

After spending all day with the head Jews of the synogagues, the apostle pleads with the Jews, 'for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain' (28.20),

And then

NOTHING, no man forbidding him. They were blind indeed, and the apostle is then sent to the Gentiles for the first time, the gentiles have an apostle from God sent to them to make known what is their own particular hope. A sure hope that will come to pass. A hope not found in the OT. It cannot possibly have any connection with the OT because this hope has to do with God's calling, just as Israel's hope did, just like the gentiles who were blessed through Israel during the Acts also had a calling connected with a hope.

The sabbath days have no mention in our letters save to say don't let the Jews judge you in not keeping the Mosaic law. I mean, even Israel was being instructed to grow up out from the picture words of the OT, which the law, the tabernacle, their dress, food, absolutely everything was a picture or type pointing to the real and the true, and He came.

Much more are we gentiles to respect what God was doing with Israel, and much more we should question where are the instructions for gentiles to take upon the Mosaic law, seeing as how Israel was even being instructed to 'continue onto perfection', we should need specific instructions in the like manner as Israel had received if we are to take upon Israel's law, but we don't. They simply are not there.

I was going to post more on the cerimonial, but it is all I can do to make my posts as short as they are, belive it or not, lol.