Is purgatory real?

[Jostler]

6 hours ago, K9Buck said:

 

I did not know that.  Thanks for sharing.  For my own future reference, do you by chance recall the verse?  Thanks again.  

i edited one of them into the post above.  lol...i realized such a statement deserves some support besides my words    Let me add a few more:

In Psalm 68 we see some prophetic portrayals of Jesus' ascension and later Paul gives us an interpretation of the verse, in light of His fulfillment of the prophecy:

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Psa 68:18

Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.

 

 

Here is Paul's explanation of exactly what fulfillment of that prophecy meant.

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Eph 4:8-11

Therefore He says:

“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”

 

(Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?

 

He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)

 

¶

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,

 

First He descended into the "heart of the earth"  ....and after three days, gave the devil a heart attack.    Because Hades could not hold Him....He ascended, and Hades captives were stripped from its grasp...delivered from the prison death had consigned them to.

 

Quote

 

 

Matt 27:52-53

and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;

 

and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by Jostler

[Jostler]

i can add a few more if you are interested.      When speaking to the Pharisees, predicting His own death at their hands He referred to the "sign of Jonah".   What happened to Jonah in the belly of that great fish sheds some light on what happened to Jesus after Father abandoned Him on that horrific cross......He yielded Himself to the second death....total, utter separation from Father and Spirit....in faith...clinging to the promises. 

Quite an amazing thing our Father did to have us back....and our Saviour did to obtain His promised inheritance. 

[Guest K9Buck]

13 minutes ago, Jostler said:

i can add a few more if you are interested.      When speaking to the Pharisees, predicting His own death at their hands He referred to the "sign of Jonah".   What happened to Jonah in the belly of that great fish sheds some light on what happened to Jesus after Father abandoned Him on that horrific cross......He yielded Himself to the second death....total, utter separation from Father and Spirit....in faith...clinging to the promises. 

Quite an amazing thing our Father did to have us back....and our Saviour did to obtain His promised inheritance. 

Thank you.  I wonder why Matthew didn't use the word "hades" instead of "earth".  

Matthew 12:40 New International Version (NIV)

⁴⁰ For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

[Jostler]

1 minute ago, K9Buck said:

Thank you.  I wonder why Matthew didn't use the word "hades" instead of "earth".  

Matthew 12:40 New International Version (NIV)

⁴⁰ For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

His audience certainly understood that Sheol, the grave, was synonymous with the "heart of the earth".   Hades was the Greek term for the "dimension" or "realm" of the dead.   Which was already well understood.

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Jon 2:1

¶

Then Jonah prayed to the LORD his God from the fish’s belly.

And he said:

“I cried out to the LORD because of my affliction,
And He answered me.

“Out of the belly of Sheol I cried,
And You heard my voice.

 

[JoeMo]

16 hours ago, Jostler said:

He yielded Himself to the second death....total, utter separation from Father and Spirit

I respectfully disagree with this.  IMHO, the second death is more than eternal separation from God; the second death is complete utter obliteration - being "uncreated" as it were. There is no coming back from the second death. Furthermore hades does not mean hell - that is a conception brought to us by Dante's "Inferno".  Hades simply means the grave.

I agree with whoever it was above that said the story of Lazarus and the rich man was a parable - a story meant to present a spiritual principle. IMHO, it was NOT the depiction of an actual occurrence. Just my opinion.

Edited January 26, 2020 by JoeMo

[Resurrection Priest]

20 hours ago, Asaph said:

I haven't read every post here yet. I want to point to what is known as Abraham's bosom. The Paradise Jesus spoke of, Was it heaven? 

I look at the Parable of the rich man and the beggar. When the beggar dies he goes to Abraham's side. There is a great gulf between this paradise and hell.  The rich man is able to see them and speak to Abraham. I believe this is the place where the righteous dead went to await Jesus to come and preach to them in prison, they were limited to that place, so it was a type of prison. Luke 16:19.

Jesus died and visited those who were in paradise, they were taught the true way and when he rose again, he took them with him into heaven. Saying in Psalm 68:18 He led captivity captive into heaven. Eph. 4:7-10

 

 

Jesus had not gone to "paradise" on "the third day".  After He was raised from the dead:

  John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,`I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"

If Jesus had not gone to Paradise on Sunday, how could the thief have been there with Him on Friday?

[Guest K9Buck]

2 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

If Jesus had not gone to Paradise on Sunday, how could the thief have been there with Him on Friday?

Did you mean to say "If Jesus had not gone to Paradise UNTIL Sunday..."?  

Anyway, yea, that's an interesting question.

[Jostler]

2 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

Jesus had not gone to "paradise" on "the third day".  After He was raised from the dead:

  John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,`I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"

If Jesus had not gone to Paradise on Sunday, how could the thief have been there with Him on Friday?

If that is true, then Jesus lied to the thief who petitioned Him for mercy.  And I don't believe He ever lied.  He promised 'THIS DAY...' while still on the cross...not "in three days you will be with Me..."  

[Guest K9Buck]

5 minutes ago, Jostler said:

If that is true, then Jesus lied to the thief who petitioned Him for mercy.  And I don't believe He ever lied.  He promised 'THIS DAY...' while still on the cross...not "in three days you will be with Me..."  

Thanks, but how do we reconcile the scripture wherein Jesus said that he had not yet gone to Heaven?  

[Jostler]

6 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I respectfully disagree with this.  IMHO, the second death is more than eternal separation from God; the second death is complete utter obliteration - being "uncreated" as it were. There is no coming back from the second death. Furthermore hades does not mean hell - that is a conception brought to us by Dante's "Inferno".  Hades simply means the grave.

I agree with whoever it was above that said the story of Lazarus and the rich man was a parable - a story meant to present a spiritual principle. IMHO, it was NOT the depiction of an actual occurrence. Just my opinion.

Friend, God told Adam "In THE day that ye eat of it, ye SHALL surely die".   He did not lie.  Adam died THE day (24 hr time period) that he ate in rebellion to God's command.  That is the second death.  He also died physically within the first prophetic 1000 year day.  Adam lived to 930 years of age....neither he nor any other man his lived a thousand years.  Methuselah holds the record at 960.  

Which ever understanding of "day" we look at, God spoke truth.

We were born into the second death, and destined to also experience the first.....physical separation from this now utterly corrupted flesh.  The ULTIMATE end of the second death is incarceration, eternally, in the lake of fire as described in Revelation 20.

The ONLY escape from the second death is being "born again".