Hebrew Roots and Diety of Jesus/Yahshua

[dhchristian]

Just now, JasonPerkins said:

That argument has a lot of holes and grounded in antisemitism that was prevalent in Greek and Roman world.

I think you assessment is way off base on theberreancall.org, as they are anything but antisemetic, Or Romanized. That being said, Instead of following men, why not read the Word of God, Begin with acts 15, read Galatians, and the other epistles of the church age. Pray for the Holy Ghost to guide you. Understand what changed when the New covenant came into effect with the death of the testator as spoken of in Hebrews. No One else is going to answer for you at the judgment seat and none else is going to vouch for you So Work out your own faith with fear and trembling.

Romanismis the excuse that the HRM uses to get you distracted from discovering the Truth of the Word of God because it places your focus on an earthly enemy, as opposed to Jesus who is the Truth personified. You have rightly seen the denial of the deity of Christ Jesus in many of the HRM groups, and their heresies run far deeper than that. Many segments of this HRM are nothing but cults, and the main doctrine all cults have is the denial of the deity of Christ. Consider carefully the following verses from Galatians and I will close with them.

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? (Gal. 2:19-3:3)

[Jedi4Yahweh]

18 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Romanismis the excuse that the HRM uses to get you distracted from discovering the Truth of the Word of God because it places your focus on an earthly enemy, as opposed to Jesus who is the Truth personified. You have rightly seen the denial of the deity of Christ Jesus in many of the HRM groups, and their heresies run far deeper than that. Many segments of this HRM are nothing but cults, and the main doctrine all cults have is the denial of the deity of Christ. Consider carefully the following verses from Galatians and I will close with them.

I agree there are some doctrinal issues in many of the HR movement but there are also lots of doctrinal issues in nearly all denomations.  This is why I dont follow denominational teaching but rather the God's word.  When we stand before God, he is going to judge you based on his law not your churches teachings.

18 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Consider carefully the following verses from Galatians and I will close with them.

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? (Gal. 2:19-3:3)

Brother, Faith in Y'shua does not nullify the commandments of God.  Are Christians allowed to serve other gods, server idols, use the name of God wrongly, commit adultery, steal, murder, falsely accuse others, or lust after others possessions?   Believers you who violate those commandments without repentance will not inherit eternal life.   Keeping the Sabbath is also listed along with those fundamental commandments of God.  Infact, the commadment to keep the Sabbath was instituted long before the Mosaic Law at the time of creation and given to all men to follow.  Y'shua said the Sabbath was made for man, not just Israel.  The majority of us have all violated these commandments but the good news is the Y'shua paid the price for our transgressions of the Law which is eternal death but the only way we can receive this payment is though faith and repentance.  Sin is defined in scripture as transgress of God's law.  If you have truly repented of sin then this means you are now keeping the commandments that Y'shua taught which is the Law of God.  If not then you never truly repented and your faith is dead.  Faith with out repentance is dead. You faith did not produce repentance.  It would be like me coming into your home in the middle of the night while you are asleep to tell you your house is on fire and that you need to get up and get out or you are going to die, but you tell me that you believe and then get back in bed and fall back asleep.  Did you really believe?  No!  If you had real faith in what I was telling you then you would have immediately got up and ran to safety.  This is why John said that faith without works is dead.  This is the same for Christians who say they have faith but continue to violate God's law.  Y'shua said hypocrites honor me with their lips but their hearts are far from me.  Y'shua taught is disciples to do and teach everything that he did and taught.  Y'shua kept the commandments, sabbath and feast of God.  We are to follow his example and commandments.

Ponder these scriptures:

[Jhn 14:15 KJV] 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
[Jhn 15:10 KJV] 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
[1Jo 2:3-4 KJV] 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[1Jo 3:24 KJV] 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
[Rev 12:17 KJV] 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
[Rev 14:12 KJV] 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
[1Jo 3:4 KJV] 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Jedi4Yahweh

[dhchristian]

Just now, JasonPerkins said:

I agree there are some doctrinal issues in many of the HR movement but there are also lots of doctrinal issues in nearly all denomations.  This is why I dont follow denominational teaching but rather the God's word.  When we stand before God, he is going to judge you based on his law not your churches teachings.

Christianity is not a religion or a denomination of man such as Calvinism or Lutheranism, Christianity is a relationship with Christ Jesus, He is the All in all of the church. This lumping of all the children of God with denominationalism is exactly the perversion most Hebrew roots people make and thereby distract you from arriving at the Truth of the Word of God. 

 

Just now, JasonPerkins said:

Brother, Faith in Y'shua does not nullify the commandments of God.

This is a typical false assumption that those who preach works make against those who Preach Salvation by Grace. We are saved by grace, we are kept by grace, and we are sanctified by grace. The Moment it becomes works on your part is the Moment you "frustrate the grace of God". Paul writes: And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. (Romans 11:6) What this means is the moment you add your effort and works of your own strength and will to Obey The law you are straying from the way of Grace and going into a works gospel which is anathema. This is the reason many of those HRM sages want to negate the writings of Paul and even eliminate them from the canon of scripture. Some even go so far as to say he was a false prophet, believe it or not, And these are Big names in the Hebrew roots movement that do this. 

You assume because of what I am saying I am preaching lawlessness, which the opposite is actually true, when we walk in the Law of the Spirit of Life as opposed to the Law of sin and death (Romans 8:1-8) it is no longer us who are working but the holy Ghost working in us for we have put to death the flesh and live by the Spirit and the Spirit will not lead us into sin. Much of The HRM theology is based on this false assumption and therefore is perverting the way of Grace. You of course are free to follow the wide road of works along with all other religions of the world, But I will stick with the narrow road of Salvation by grace. This is what the new covenant is all about the Law being written on our hearts that we no longer desire to sin. Instead of working by our own will and strength to produce our own righteousness, we are now submitted to doing the will of God and trusting in His righteousness. When you get a chance, read the first 10 or so verses of Romans 10, As this passage explains this difference aptly using the example of the Hebrew people to contrast Grace with works.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; (Titus 3:5-6)

 

[Jedi4Yahweh]

1 hour ago, dhchristian said:

You assume because of what I am saying I am preaching lawlessness, which the opposite is actually true, when we walk in the Law of the Spirit of Life as opposed to the Law of sin and death (Romans 8:1-8) it is no longer us who are working but the holy Ghost working in us for we have put to death the flesh and live by the Spirit and the Spirit will not lead us into sin. Much of The HRM theology is based on this false assumption and therefore is perverting the way of Grace. You of course are free to follow the wide road of works along with all other religions of the world, But I will stick with the narrow road of Salvation by grace. This is what the new covenant is all about the Law being written on our hearts that we no longer desire to sin. Instead of working by our own will and strength to produce our own righteousness, we are now submitted to doing the will of God and trusting in His righteousness. When you get a chance, read the first 10 or so verses of Romans 10, As this passage explains this difference aptly using the example of the Hebrew people to contrast Grace with works.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; (Titus 3:5-6)

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. - Jer 31:31-34 KJV

The new covenant God according to scripture is God taking his law and putting it in your heart to keep.  What you seem to be teaching seems to be that God did away with the Law and we are no long required to keep it.  This is not what new covenant nor what Y'shua taught.   The new covenant is God putting the law in your heart and giving you the power by his Grace to keep it.  No where did Y'shau ever teach that law was done away with infact he said not one piece of the Law will go away until heaven and earth passes away.  Y'shua's sermon on the mountain was about how to correctly keep the law of God verse how the Pharisees and Scribes were doing.  For example, Y'shua said, "you have heard that you shall not murder but I tell you not to hate someone in your heart...You have heard that you shall not commit adultery but I tell you if you lust in your heart, you have already committed adultery...".   God did not save us from keeping the Law but the penalty of the Law for those who put their faith in Y'shau and repent of their sin of transgressing God's law.

 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Jedi4Yahweh

[dhchristian]

Just now, JasonPerkins said:

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. - Jer 31:31-34 KJV

The new covenant God according to scripture is God taking his law and putting it in your heart to keep.  What you seem to be teaching seems to be that God did away with the Law and we are no long required to keep it.  This not what new covenant nor what Y'shua taught.   The new covenant is God putting the law in your heart and giving you the power by his Grace to keep it.  No where did Y'shau ever teach that law was done away with infact he said not one piece of the Law will go away until heaven and earth passes away.  Y'shua's sermon on the mountain was about how to correctly keep the law of God verse how the Pharisees and Scribes were doing.  For example, Y'shua said, "you have heard that you shall not murder but I tell you not to hate in someone in your heart...You have heard that you shall not commit adultery but I tell you if you lust in your heart or you have already committed adultery...".   God did not save us from keeping the Law but the penalty of the Law for those who put the faith in Y'shau and repent of their sin of transgressing God's law.

The verses from Jeremiah you are quoting refer to Israel and the end times, when they "Mourn for Him Whom they have pierced" (Zech. 12:10) This New covenant came into effect with the death of Christ, It is just Israel has rejected Jesus as their messiah. Read Romans 11 and this will explain this. We are living in what is known as the church age, or the time of the gentiles right now.

Read again, what I wrote above, and you will see that in this time of the gentiles the law is being written upon our hearts But this is not being done by the Law of sin and death, but by the Law of the Spirit of life. If you do not know the difference you are being led astray. This is the analogy that I use for this, think about it. Grace is the gasoline that makes the engine run, You can have a car (Which represents us) at the bottom of the hill (which represents the righteous requirement of the Law) and you can begin to push it up hill by your own brute strength and will, but eventually you will become exhausted and the car will roll back to the bottom of the hill. But if you Put the Gasoline of Grace in that engine, all you have to do is turn the key and press the gas pedal and the car will climb the hill. Using Works by your own strength and will can not produce the fruit of the Spirit, Only By abiding and continuing to rely on his grace can the engine of the car of sanctification be started and that we can begin to climb the Hill. This is why so many religious people have some of the most disturbing hidden sins in their lives, such as priests and pastors prone to homosexuality and pedophilia, Or how the Pharisees became so cold hearted As to Kill an innocent Messiah. 

When We are sanctified by Grace via the work of the Holy Ghost in us, our efforts are just to submit to His leading in our lives. the Fruit we bear and any righteousness we do is not of our se4lves but is the gift of God, therefore we cannot glory in anything we do, for all glory is his. This is how we avoid the self righteousness of the legalist and condemnation of them as well. Our Pride rests not in ourselves but in His finished work on the cross. 

Now let us look at the verse you quoted in your second part and see what you left off, because this will show how you have fallen for the deception of works salvation. You wrote:

12 minutes ago, JasonPerkins said:

No where did Y'shau ever teach that law was done away with infact he said not one piece of the Law will go away until heaven and earth passes away. 

Here is what Jesus actually said: For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (Matthew 5;18)

So here we see the grievous error on your part, You ignore the "till all be fulfilled part". What does that mean? Did Jesus fulfill the law on the cross of Calvary? It does not say the law will not pass away, but that it will pass away when all is fulfilled. You agree that You do not need to sacrifice Bulls and goats for the atonement of sin anymore correct? When did that change? Because that is as much a part of the Law as are the ten commandments. Here is also some other verses spoken by Jesus which will get you to see this. 

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. (Luke 16:16) 

Here we see that the Law and Prophets were until the ministry of John the Baptist who preached the Gospel of the Kingdom. This Gospel, had it been received By Israel would have meant that there was no time of the Gentiles as to be redeemed which Paul spoke of In Romans 11. This Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached once again as we approach the second advent of Christ Jesus when He comes in Glory (Matthew 24:14) But until then the Gospel of Grace is Preached. The Gospel of the Kingdom is diverse from the Gospel of Grace in that the Gospel of Grace Does not speak of the coming earthly Kingdom, the millennial reign of Christ, Instead it speaks of Being born again and saved by the grace of God, and being sanctified by that grace. But this is another subject altogether... 

What You in fact are missing out on therefore is that the Law is being written on our heart by the Spirit, not by our own effort. The sooner you rest in his finished work on the cross the sooner he can begin his work in you, of sanctifying you from the inside out. Or you can try to push the car up the hill by your own strength and will, which does not work. By Grace we cruise up that hill With just the burden of pressing the Gas pedal, Grace does all the Work via the Holy Ghost. 

God Bless.

 

[dhchristian]

Just now, charisenexcelsis said:

I might note that we are texting on the Sabbath.

I am just praising Jesus, for all he has done for me through His grace and resting in his finished work on the cross. 

[Alive]

12 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

I am just praising Jesus, for all he has done for me through His grace and resting in his finished work on the cross. 

Amen, brother! Amen.

[Resurrection Priest]

On 2/13/2020 at 3:26 AM, Tzephanyahu said:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God and the Word WAS God".

Can you say that Jason is WITH Jason and Jason WAS Jason?  

If God the Father beget another being - a second divine being.  Wouldn't that second being have the same nature as the first being.  He would be GOD.

If Jason begets a Son, that Son would be human - just like Jason. 

It all depends on whether one believes that God's "Son" was literally "begotten" in the heavenly realm, prior to His incarnation into the womb of Mary. 

One could say "GOD gave His only begotten Son" and that be taken/understood in more than one way.  Depends on just when you believe God the Father "beget" His Son. 

Same with verses that say "God sent His only Son".  WHEN exactly did God the Father "send" His Son into the world?  Is this just speaking of a "calling", to go out from home into the larger "world", OR is this God the Father sending His begotten Son into our dimension, to live in our world?  

All goes back to whether "GOD" is a Trinity, or a Father, who gave His actual literal "Son". 

[dhchristian]

1 hour ago, Resurrection Priest said:

If God the Father beget another being - a second divine being.  Wouldn't that second being have the same nature as the first being.  He would be GOD.

If Jason begets a Son, that Son would be human - just like Jason. 

It all depends on whether one believes that God's "Son" was literally "begotten" in the heavenly realm, prior to His incarnation into the womb of Mary. 

One could say "GOD gave His only begotten Son" and that be taken/understood in more than one way.  Depends on just when you believe God the Father "beget" His Son. 

Same with verses that say "God sent His only Son".  WHEN exactly did God the Father "send" His Son into the world?  Is this just speaking of a "calling", to go out from home into the larger "world", OR is this God the Father sending His begotten Son into our dimension, to live in our world?  

All goes back to whether "GOD" is a Trinity, or a Father, who gave His actual literal "Son". 

Jesus is Both fully Human and fully God. As the Son of Man he is begotten of God, as the Son of God, He was and is and is to come. Jesus was Born from the womb of Mary, Raised a child in Israel, And Lived a human life as we do. He was fully Human, Yet he was fully God. At any time he could have called for wrath Upon the sinful people even while he hung on the cross, But instead he chose to Humble himself and lay down his life for us. He became sin  for us who knew no sin. There is no greater Love than this, The creator laying down his life for His creation... Or as Isaac Watts penned it "for such a worm as I". Most cults deny the divinity of Jesus, But there are some such as the gnostics that deny his humanity, Thus the tests of the Spirits given in scripture are based on these two natures of Christ. (1 John 4;1-6, 1 cor. 12:3) Failing either of these tests means the spirit the person is hearing from is not the Holy Spirit, But some other spirit preaching another Jesus.    

[Resurrection Priest]

17 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Jesus is Both fully Human and fully God. As the Son of Man he is begotten of God, as the Son of God, He was and is and is to come. Jesus was Born from the womb of Mary, Raised a child in Israel, And Lived a human life as we do. He was fully Human, Yet he was fully God. At any time he could have called for wrath Upon the sinful people even while he hung on the cross, But instead he chose to Humble himself and lay down his life for us. He became sin  for us who knew no sin. There is no greater Love than this, The creator laying down his life for His creation... Or as Isaac Watts penned it "for such a worm as I". Most cults deny the divinity of Jesus, But there are some such as the gnostics that deny his humanity, Thus the tests of the Spirits given in scripture are based on these two natures of Christ. (1 John 4;1-6, 1 cor. 12:3) Failing either of these tests means the spirit the person is hearing from is not the Holy Spirit, But some other spirit preaching another Jesus.    

  Personally I dislike the word "cult".  It is used far too often to label those who hold a minority view.    It is putting a label on anyone who shares a view regarded by the speaker as heretical. 

Anyway.

I do believe that Jesus was/is "God".  He should receive worship.  GOD the Father commanded all the angels to worship His newborn son.  The disciples "worshiped Him" (Luke 24:52). 

NOTE:  It is rather difficult to bow before "the throne" occupied by BOTH Father and Son, and not worship BOTH.

 

I also totally believe that the Word "became flesh".  God's Son was incarnated into the womb of Mary, and was born into the world as a human being. 

Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone." (Heb 2:9 NKJ)

Hebrews 2:17 "For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people." (NIV)

 

I believe that God's Son, when He was incarnated, "emptied Himself" of divine powers (omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence).  He became dependent upon His Father for any power.  He said, "the Father who dwells in me, does the works". 

  Philippians 2:7 "rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness."  (NIV)

To recover the dominion for humankind, lost through disobedience, God's Son would need to be "obedient unto death" as a man (Phil 2:8).  That is what He did. 

 

After His resurrection/ascension, the Father glorified His Son, thus returning much of His divine powers.  He was given "the name" and the position which is "above every name", though the Son will never be regarded as "above" His Father. 

1 Corinthians 15:24 "Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all." (NIV)

There is a hierarchy, and the Son of God is NOT above "His God and Father".  Nor is Christ equal to "His God and Father".  He is and will be "subject to His Father.

1 Corinthians 11:3 "But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God."

 

Which does strongly hint that God the Father and His Son, are NOT the same being.  They are two separate divine persons.  One was "begotten" (somehow came into existence)  from (out of) the other.  I believe that instant was "the beginning".  I do NOT BELIEVE the Son had no beginning.  I believe the Son began to exist, but at the instant where eternity met "time".  

The Son could have existed within God the Father - before He "came forth from the Father" (John 16:28).  Sort of like Levi himself paid tithes through his forefather Abraham.