What Law?

[Yishai]

10 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Bless you brother and thanks for the reminders of scripture.  Jesus also said:

Mat 13:52

He said to them, “Therefore every teacher of the law who has become a disciple in the kingdom of heaven is like the owner of a house who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old.”

But where it talks about bringing forth the old because of the new in Lev. 26:9....is talking about the people of Israel being revived through Yeshua and John the Baptist to even hearken to those old scriptures and return to the Lord....Israel was largely in a state of apostasy at the time Jesus came...and we know this because she had been given over by God to Roman oppression.  John the Baptist (spirit of Elijah) was in process of reviving and restoring the people back to the Lord and His word in order to prepare the way for Jesus.  Also a second meaning could be talking about seeing those "old" scriptures in a new light, ie, through the lens of the New Covenant, which means serving in the new way of the spirit, not in the old way of the letter.  Where the things of the old covenant were a type and shadow of things to come.....and serving in the new way of the Spirit is actually a higher standard, so to speak, than the old way of the letter.  New and renewing in scripture is often speaking of something or someone becoming spiritual and no longer according to the flesh...as in becoming a new creature, or renewing of our minds.

You are loved, I dont' know everything you believe about the Law, etc, and I don't want to argue too much, but just thought this might be helpful and something to think about.

Yes, i think the old true greats all knew the truth of how salvation was gained, and of the Messiahs coming, The Word/Torah come to flesh, at some point false teachings arose of being saved by Law...I believe in WILLING obedience To His Holy Law, I believe once any person is saved thru the Son..they become of the seed of Abraham Thru the Messiah and Spirtualy saved from Slavery in Egypt...and as Torah always says Keep my command BC I am YHWH your Elohim who saved you(not to be saved) from Egypt(captives to sin of the flesh)

Also belief in 1st john 3:4 as Torah is the literal knowledge of Sin. 

[Yishai]

1 hour ago, Heleadethme said:

The Lord helps us to see with His eyes, praise His name.  Are you Jewish or a Hebrew roots gentile believer?

Neither, From no outside sources last year He showed me all these things just by study His Word, I didnt even know ANYTHING about the H.R.M , it was surprising to find out this was a actual movement! Haha.

And amen, indeed Praise His Name! Thank you for your nice Heart.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Yishai

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, Yishai said:

Yes, i think the old true greats all knew the truth of how salvation was gained, and of the Messiahs coming, The Word/Torah come to flesh, at some point false teachings arose of being saved by Law...I believe in WILLING obedience To His Holy Law, I believe once any person is saved thru the Son..they become of the seed of Abraham Thru the Messiah and Spirtualy saved from Slavery in Egypt...and as Torah always says Keep my command BC I am YHWH your Elohim who saved you(not to be saved) from Egypt(captives to sin of the flesh)

Also belief in 1st john 3:4 as Torah is the literal knowledge of Sin. 

Yes, by the letter of Law is knowledge of good & evil.....and it is the strength of sin and a ministration of death as Adam & Eve found out.  But as believers in Christ with Him indwelling us by His Spirit, we are led by the Spirit now, rather than the letter of the law....and the Spirit does not lead us to break God's moral laws.  But the law is good if it is used properly, ie, in the new way of the Spirit and life.....as being profitable for instruction, correction and reproof, like all of God's word.  This is understanding that I have received from the Lord so far on this.

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, Yishai said:

Neither, From no outside sources last year He showed me all these things just by study His Word, I didnt even know ANYTHING about the H.R.M , it was surprising to find out this was a actual movement! Haha.

Well praise the Lord for your salvation and the revelation that He gives.  I don't know what you think of the book of Galations...?  There are some who try to bring believers back "under" the Law....it is a very old kind of attack by the enemy.  Please be careful not to be deceived in that way.

[Yishai]

16 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Yes, by the letter of Law is knowledge of good & evil.....and it is the strength of sin and a ministration of death as Adam & Eve found out.  But as believers in Christ with Him indwelling us by His Spirit, we are led by the Spirit now, rather than the letter of the law....and the Spirit does not lead us to break God's moral laws.  But the law is good if it is used properly, ie, in the new way of the Spirit and life.....as being profitable for instruction, correction and reproof, like all of God's word.  This is understanding that I have received from the Lord so far on this.

Amen, He showed me how its the corrector of False doctrines as well, it has the power to end denominations, I believe when this teaching first arose(that Holy Law was Abolished, keep in mind 1st church did not have the NT) this scattered the flock into debates and denominations...and Id like to share a prophecy from sid roth, that he posted in 2012, I found this a cpl weeks ago. It was VERY surprising, as you said led by The spirit, I allasudden wanted to keep His feast, and His Diet(bat soup, corona virus!lol)and  etc..wanted to! Praise Him.

"about fifteen years ago God started speaking to me about the One New Man from Ephesians 2: 14-22. God moves in stages with humans. Without Messianic Judaism we could not move to the One
New Man. Today we have a few One New Man Congregations. The true Church will eventually recognize that as we become closer to the first congregation of believers culturally and spiritually, and as more Jewish people are added to the Church it will release the full Glory of God. We will
all do the same works as Jesus and even greater.  

Religious spirits are and will try to abort
this movement. Some will feel we must observe these biblical feasts for
salvation. Some believers will follow more rabbinical Judaism than New
Covenant. Some will even convert to Traditional Judaism. Some will
be more in love with Jewish roots than the Jewish Jesus! These are all
the works of demons! But some will see the Glory of God that will be
released when these Jesus shadow feasts are observed in freedom and truth!
They will “want to” celebrate them as opposed to “have
to” celebrate them!"-2012 sid roth.

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Yishai

[Heleadethme]

On 2/17/2020 at 6:35 PM, Yishai said:

Amen, He showed me how its the corrector of False doctrines as well, it has the power to end denominations, I believe when this teaching first arose(that Holy Law was Abolished, keep in mind 1st church did not have the NT) this scattered the flock into debates and denominations...and Id like to share a prophecy from sid roth, that he posted in 2012, I found this a cpl weeks ago. It was VERY surprising, as you said led by The spirit, I allasudden wanted to keep His feast, and His Diet(bat soup, corona virus!lol)and  etc..wanted to! Praise Him.

"about fifteen years ago God started speaking to me about the One New Man from Ephesians 2: 14-22. God moves in stages with humans. Without Messianic Judaism we could not move to the One
New Man. Today we have a few One New Man Congregations. The true Church will eventually recognize that as we become closer to the first congregation of believers culturally and spiritually, and as more Jewish people are added to the Church it will release the full Glory of God. We will
all do the same works as Jesus and even greater.  

Religious spirits are and will try to abort
this movement. Some will feel we must observe these biblical feasts for
salvation. Some believers will follow more rabbinical Judaism than New
Covenant. Some will even convert to Traditional Judaism. Some will
be more in love with Jewish roots than the Jewish Jesus! These are all
the works of demons! But some will see the Glory of God that will be
released when these Jesus shadow feasts are observed in freedom and truth!
They will “want to” celebrate them as opposed to “have
to” celebrate them!"-2012 sid roth.

 

Brother, sorry for the delayed reply, have just been feeling frail and overwhelmed lately, and finding things hard to grapple with. 

I think all I might say in general to begin with is that millions of people can say millions of different things, and in the end only we are responsible for what we believe, so it's vital to be led by the Spirit and get His word tucked away in our hearts so that we will start to see what men say through the lens of God's word, rather than seeing Gods' word through a lens of what men say.  No man is infallible but Christ, and the bible says to TEST EVERTHING and even TEST THE SPIRITS.  The word says there are things that can seemeth so right to man, to us, but end in death (because they lead astray).  Scripture says that we are not to go beyond what is written, we need to have our thoughts taken captive that way, to His word. 

So brother, do you mind if we first look at the concept that was stated, that God deals with mankind in stages.   What does the person mean by that, and how does the word of God show this, if it does.  I just have not heard that before and don't know what is meant by it....I'm just drawing a blank with that.

[Light Bearer]

On 2/16/2020 at 9:21 AM, Thess said:

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My words may seem foreign,[

Not at all Thess. Sorry about the untimely response. Many things to do and only so much time.

 

Quote

 

I may be wrong, here, but the context of all of this is found in 5:20. Jesus talks about obtaining Righteousness that is greater than what the teachers of the Law possess. What is this Righteousness? This Righteousness is the Holy Work performed not by the hands of men, but by the Hands of Christ

 

 Let's take a look. Jesus speaks in verse 20 In respect to the Commandments which are contained in the Law and are not changing until Heaven and Earth pass away.

As was said these commandments which are from the law are the good works which man may see shined through us who are light by  Christ in  us. We are counciled to let this law, these commandments shine that God be glorified.

In this context Jesus, in the context that these laws, good works shall not change from what they were then until the culmination in which this system and all that is in it will be destroyed and A New Heavens and New Earth be established with God and all the heavenly host. With this in mind Jesus says,

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
(Mat 5:19-20 KJV)

 

The issue Jesus is saying about the teachers, is not that they were not living through the Spirit. (though they weren't) But that they were not doing what they ought and were teaching by their example of their  not doing.  Verse twenty starts with the word "for". That means whatever follows it is the reason or conclusion to what was previously stated. 

Then after Jesus admonishes those that break one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, in saying they will not enter into heaven he starts to speak of these least commandments by quoting and magnifying laws that are contained in the Decalogue and through out the Books of the Law that pertain to our interaction with one another and God. These are the good works that Shine from us through Christ that glorify God WHICH shall not change in one jot or tittle until all is fulfilled.

These next two quotes of yours show a lot of insight. Praise God!

Will post on these quotes sometime in the near future. You have a nice evening Thess. 

May the Lord God of Heaven continue to Bless us all in all His Way, Jesus Christ.

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When Christ performs His Holy Operation on our Stony hearts, we are, at that moment, purified. The veil has been lifted. We have been enabled to do good works directed by God Himself. Having been Indwelt by the Holy Spirit, the One who now leads, guides and directs . . . it will be impossible to lose our saltiness nor will it be possible to keep the Gospel inside of us, not feeling compelled whatsoever to share it with literally everyone around us, including those at church.

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A person who is “salty”, a person who is a “light” unto the world, is this way not because of themselves or their own Power or volition, but this is all the enabling work of Christ Himself. The only way to enter the Kingdom of heaven, is by having your heart Circumcised.

[Jer 9:25 NIV] 25 "The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will punish all who are circumcised only in the flesh—“

In by being circumcised in the Heart (edited from Flesh - Oops), there is now no need for the Law. When Christ arose from the Grave, He took our Sinful Nature and left it in the grave when He arose. Having arisen with Christ, like Christ, we too are purified. For Jesus took our Curse, having become a Curse for us, and paid the price to have this Sinful Nature removed.

Now having had our Sinful Nature removed, we no longer operate by Pre-Law of Moses, the Laws of Moses or even the Laws that have been written on our hearts. Instead, True Christians will live by, or be operated by, the Laws of the Spirit of Life.

[Rom 8:2 KJV] “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Light Bearer

[Blood Bought 1953]

On 2/17/2020 at 3:20 PM, Thess said:

To say that we are not worthy is to deny the Mysterious Plan of God. The whole Plan revolves around the Circumcised heart, the foreskins of our hearts. This is the cost of salvation. The cost is to surrender the foreskins of our hearts, and in by doing so, we are purified. And this is done so that Jews and Gentiles would become one body, one new man.

This Plan of God exists because we are worthy of Him to bestow His Power upon us.

[Lev 26:13 NIV] 13 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt so that you would no longer be slaves to the Egyptians; I broke the bars of your yoke and enabled you to walk with heads held high.

 

Nobody is “ Worthy.” If you Believe the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4, You Are “ MADE” Worthy by the Blood Of the Lamb.....

[Light Bearer]

On 2/16/2020 at 9:21 AM, Thess said:

What is this Righteousness? This Righteousness is the Holy Work performed not by the hands of men, but by the Hands of Christ.....In by being circumcised in the Heart (edited from Flesh - Oops), there is now no need for the Law.

This my friend is true to a point but is not what Christ is talking about in Matt 5:20. The righteousness that we must exceed are the Good works that are to shine that glorify God. This righteousness, These Good Works are of the Law contained in commandments in the Decalogue and through out the Books of Moses.  This we know from when Jesus says  " one of these least commandments," Jesus pulls the context to the the Law in which the commandments are contained  and is not to be destroyed. 

 

Matt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
 

[Light Bearer]

On 2/16/2020 at 9:21 AM, Thess said:

 This Righteousness is the Holy Work performed not by the hands of men, but by the Hands of Christ. When Christ performs His Holy Operation on our Stony hearts, we are, at that moment, purified. The veil has been lifted. We have been enabled to do good works directed by God Himself. Having been Indwelt by the Holy Spirit, the One who now leads, guides and directs . .

 

Amen. That is the Gospel. For without Him we can do nothing. Christ in us the hope of glory. To fulfil the Word of God. Whom we preach, warning and teaching to present every man PERFECT in CHRIST. Wherein I also labor striving according to HIS WORKING WHICH WORKETH IN ME MIGHTILY.

 

 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation (responsibility) of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
(Col 1:25-29 KJV)