Church Civil War And Letters from the "Church Fathers"

[George]

23 hours ago, Yishai said:

And DHchristain to be man to man with you, your just on a rampage and talking thru your neck. Speak witha chest boy. Lol

This is what gets people on Mod Review ... don't make things personal.  

[Yishai]

4 hours ago, charisenexcelsis said:

And that is added by you. That is the point. Every time that we bring a scripture showing that we are no longer under the law, you add that that is merely speaking of salvation.

No its not added too, go back and look what caused the debate, a man came down and said unless you be circumcised after the manner of Moses "YE CAN NOT BE SAVED"...

And they went into debate "about THIS QUESTION"

 

Id also like to point out to everyone why im led to share this truth about the Law, (I would never have someone join the 1st covenant, where such sins are unforgivable), I have no desire to confuse people, but all confusion is thanks to Ignatius. I dont even desire you to try and add on more parts of the law to your life.

I simply want to reveal this truth, that 100% of The Law is fully active for all His people. Y'shua(Jesus) is the High priest, He is performing all laws that pertain to the High preist in The Kingdom(we would not need a high priest if Law was abolished) The beautiful thing about the law is it corrects every false doctrine! And reveals every sin! Its amazing.

people just gotta know the false teaching of it being Abolished, its a lie.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Yishai

[Alive]

I'm starting to feel like a broken record or a tape set on repeat...

Its important to understand the principle of Life as juxtaposed against the principle of Law.

Please consider these things as a starting point to understanding the War. The enemy knows well that the issue of law is death as juxtaposed against Life 'In Christ'.

He also understands 'Salvation' and Eternal Life--and understands he can't do anything about those things. He also knows that he can taint the 'experience' of a saved one by placing an individual in bondage and thus prevent those saints from entering the 'Rest' of Christ.

He hates us and is jealous. Insanely jealous. This is one of his goals. Please consider these things.

It seems to me that what is required is an understanding of just what it means to 'walk in the Spirit'. This does not mean, as you say--"your spirit" meaning my own, but rather by the Holy Spirit that has taken up residence in me. This reality and the 'New Nature/Creation made for walking in a manner pleasing to God as an issue of Life from within as opposed to 'keeping laws' from without. The outer to the inner. It became a matter of  the 'source'. The first was according to the effort of man's flesh and ability. The second is the result of a New and dynamic Life from within. This is a fundamental difference. The work of the Cross of Christ sets us free from the first and brings us into the second. A careful reading of Galatians and Romans sprinkled liberally with Ephesians is in order.

The fundamental difference for the Church Age and the Kingdom of God was a shift from the earthly (Israel/Jerusalem/Temple) to the Heavenly in the Spirit.

When the Lord returns, the two will be in a sense combined, but first the "fullness of the Gentiles" and the Maturity of the Church--the Body of Christ, which of course includes Jews by heritage. From an additional perspective, 'now' there is neither Jew nor gentile "in Christ". This is the Gospel as taught by Paul.

There are those that want to bring the past into the present and they don't mix. Like water and oil. Its just that simple.

Jesus came to both shed additional light on the 'principle' of law and to become the goal of the law.

We must always remember the context and the hearers. He was teaching them that although the law could not be kept perfectly--they were under the law because of Moses and their collective loyalty to Moses. He knew they didn't understand it at the time, but He was pointing to Himself as it's fulfillment.

He knew that ones would later understand, as the Holy Spirit explained it.

The Law shed light--Jesus was the Light.

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Alive

[Yishai]

2 hours ago, Alive said:

I'm starting to feel like a broken record or a tape set on repeat...

Its important to understand the principle of Life as juxtaposed against the principle of Law.

Please consider these things as a starting point to understanding the War. The enemy knows well that the issue of law is death as juxtaposed against Life 'In Christ'.

He also understands 'Salvation' and Eternal Life--and understand he can't do anything about those things. He also knows that he can taint the 'experience' of a saved one by placing an individual in bondage and thus prevent saints from entering the 'Rest' of Christ.

He hates us and is jealous. Insanely jealous. This is one of his goals. Please consider these things.

It seems to me that what is required is an understanding of just what it means to 'walk in the Spirit'. This does not mean, as you say--"your spirit" meaning my own, but rather by the Holy Spirit that has taken up residence in me. This reality and the 'New Nature/Creation made for walking in a manner pleasing to God as an issue of Life from within as opposed to 'keeping laws' from without. The outer to the inner. It became a matter of  the 'source'. The first was according to the effort of man's flesh and ability. The second is the result of a New and dynamic Life from within. This is a fundamental difference. The work of the Cross of Christ sets us free from the first and brings us into the second. A careful reading of Galatians and Romans sprinkled liberally with Ephesians is in order.

The fundamental difference for the Church Age and the Kingdom of God was a shift from the earthly (Israel/Jerusalem/Temple) to the Heavenly in the Spirit.

When the Lord returns, the two will be in a sense combined, but first the "fullness of the Gentiles" and the Maturity of the Church--the Body of Christ, which of course includes Jews by heritage. From an additional perspective, 'now' there is neither Jew nor gentile "in Christ". This is the Gospel as taught by Paul.

There are those that want to bring the past into the present and they don't mix. Like water and oil. Its just that simple.

Jesus came to both shed additional light on the 'principle' of law and to become the goal of the law.

We must always remember the context and the hearers. He was teaching them that although the law could not be kept perfectly--they were under the law because of Moses and their collective loyalty to Moses. He knew they didn't understand it at the time, but He was pointing to Himself as it's fulfillment.

He knew that ones would later understand, as the Holy Spirit explained it.

The Law shed light--Jesus was the Light.

 

I feel the same way, really only thing Majority of Christians have correct about the Bible is the way to obtain salvation, everything else is pretty much wrong, and it's not the commoners fault, they been passed a doctrine for thousands of years, and been truly brainwashed on the subject. No offence but its true. A person cant find the truth if they believe they already have it.

I was raised with all your same beliefs being told to me, but I was not indoctrinated ever, and was able to read His Word with a fresh mind, not under the vail of "this means this" and "that means that"

And when you read it openly and pray for His truths and the way it was meant to be understood, you start seeing everything we was taught is and was, wrong. Except the way we obtain Salvation, other than that the Body of Messiah is in Dyer need of help and truth. Just read these "church fathers" letters to know who you branch from. Christian was supposed to be a sect of Judaism, not Christianity a new non Jewish religion. Its all these pagan beliefs, that make jews for sure think Jesus could have never been the Messiah, then when they see how untrue all that is....there's now been 500,000 Jews whos came to Know thier Messiah.

[George]

@Yishai  I can only review what is reported.  If you don't report it ... then I'm not going to spend the pages of reading necessary while I'm on the road traveling.   When a post is reported by several people ... it's a good indicator that it's legit.  And in the case I was referring ... it was pretty clear cut.  

[George]

1 hour ago, Yishai said:

And when you read it openly and pray for His truths and the way it was meant to be understood, you start seeing everything we was taught is and was, wrong. Except the way we obtain Salvation, other than that the Body of Messiah is in Dyer need of help and truth. Just read these "church fathers" letters to know who you branch from. Christian was supposed to be a sect of Judaism, not Christianity a new non Jewish religion. Its all these pagan beliefs, that make jews for sure think Jesus could have never been the Messiah, then when they see how untrue all that is....there's now been 500,000 Jews whos came to Know thier Messiah.

But remember how God is using these things to bring the Jewish people back to their Messiah.  In fulfilling the understanding of the Rabbis comprehension ... of "Meshiach ben Yosef", or the Suffering Servant -- Joseph was not recognized by his brothers ... because he was in Egyptian garb ... so it is in fulfillment of these prophecies that the revelation of His Jewishness as a shock to all ... to the Jewish people ... that He is their Messiah ... and to the a great number of believers who failed to recognized "His Jewishness".  

Remember, how a servant of the Lord is to teach ...

2Ti 2:24  And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, 
2Ti 2:25  correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, 
2Ti 2:26  and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will. 

God bless,

George

[Alive]

1 hour ago, Yishai said:

I feel the same way, really only thing Majority of Christians have correct about the Bible is the way to obtain salvation, everything else is pretty much wrong, and it's not the commoners fault, they been passed a doctrine for thousands of years, and been truly brainwashed on the subject. No offence but its true. A person cant find the truth if they believe they already have it.

I was raised with all your same beliefs being told to me, but I was not indoctrinated ever, and was able to read His Word with a fresh mind, not under the vail of "this means this" and "that means that"

And when you read it openly and pray for His truths and the way it was meant to be understood, you start seeing everything we was taught is and was, wrong. Except the way we obtain Salvation, other than that the Body of Messiah is in Dyer need of help and truth. Just read these "church fathers" letters to know who you branch from. Christian was supposed to be a sect of Judaism, not Christianity a new non Jewish religion. Its all these pagan beliefs, that make jews for sure think Jesus could have never been the Messiah, then when they see how untrue all that is....there's now been 500,000 Jews whos came to Know thier Messiah.

I am not sure I catch some of what you are saying here, but consider these scriptures in light of your assertion.

1Cor. 11:25 In the same way He took athe cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the bnew covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

2Cor. 3:6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb. 8:8  For finding fault with them, He says,

“BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD,

WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT

WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;

Heb. 8:13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

Heb. 9:15   For this reason He is the mediator of a cnew covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been dcalled may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Alive

[Resurrection Priest]

22 hours ago, dhchristian said:

What did John the Baptist and Jesus Preach that is NOT part of the preaching of the Law or the Prophets? Answer: The Gospel of the Kingdom. The New testament did not come into effect until the death of the Testator. So we have a period of transition that is the life and ministry of Jesus. We see this play out in Acts 19 as well, with those who had received the baptism of John but had not received the Holy Ghost. John's baptism was incomplete. Do You understand this? 

Yes.  Of course. 

It was Jesus Himself who would "baptize" with the Holy Spirit.  He could not do that until He was "glorified" by His Father, and that took place after He ascended to Heaven.  It took place in Heaven - on Pentecost.  When the disciples received that baptism, they knew that Christ had indeed been glorified.  

There was "the baptism of John" - "unto repentance".   And there is the baptism of Jesus - to life.   Also called the "new birth". 

Some verses:

Matthew 3:11 "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire" (also Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16).

John 7:39 "But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."
 

I do not believe that Jesus sent a third divine person to represent Himself.  I believe that He sent His own spirit presence.  He did say, "I am with you always." 
 

 

[Yishai]

15 minutes ago, George said:

@Yishai  I can only review what is reported.  If you don't report it ... then I'm not going to spend the pages of reading necessary while I'm on the road traveling.   When a post is reported by several people ... it's a good indicator that it's legit.  And in the case I was referring ... it was pretty clear cut.  

You think its really that clear cut, when the majority hates what I say? I dont brother.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Yishai

[George]

1 minute ago, Resurrection Priest said:

I do not believe that Jesus sent a third divine person to represent Himself.  I believe that He sent His own spirit presence.  He did say, "I am with you always." 

Honestly, try to view the Tri-Unity of God ... as ONE ... each with a different function.

In my own life, I am a "father" to my children, I am a "pastor" of my congregation, I am a "husband" to my wife.  In each of these aspects of my life, I am one person ... but respectfully I handle things much differently in these 3 areas of my life.

Isa 48:16  Draw near to me, hear this: from the beginning I have not spoken in secret, from the time it came to be I have been there.” And now the Lord GOD has sent me, and his Spirit. 
Isa 48:17  Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: “I am the LORD your God, who teaches you to profit, who leads you in the way you should go. 

God bless,

George