Is the Church divided and disconnected

[Ray12614]

22 hours ago, charisenexcelsis said:

"The eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you"; or again the head to the feet , "I have no need of you>" However difficult and however much effort is needed, the body of Christ is not an option. When we choose not to be part of the body, we make ourselves a denomination of one.

YES!!!  Exactly correct.  Thank you for saying that, I was beginning to think that I was the only one in these forums that took Corinthians teaching on the Body of Christ seriously.  Jesus designed the Body to come together, assemble together, for the purpose of edification, exhortation, and teaching and learning the scriptures, showing love to each other, and more. Jesus knew that when we separate ourselves from the rest of the Body, we get weird, making ourselves our own personal ministry gifts to our selves. And of course, when we do that we get really strange. We should assemble to give into other brother and sisters lives, and be a part of each other as the Church was intended to be. Do not forsake the assembling together. Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some; but exhorting one another and so much the more as ye see the day approaching.

Thank you for posting that!

[Behold]

On 3/5/2020 at 10:33 AM, P Jay said:

There is another topic floating around in my mind, and it's the idea that the Church is divided and disconnected.  There are times that I believe it is, but other times that I don't think it is.  It seems to be a fact to me that there are different churches that seem to interpret Scripture differently, and as a result they have different ideas about what it means to be  a Christian, and what it means to be a church.  There's the idea that a divided house will soon fall gives me concerns because I hear many Christian leaders talking negative ab0ut other leaders or other churches.  It seems to me that some believe that one church is better than the other.  And this seems to be one reason for the division in the Church.  Is one church better than another?  Or is it good to have diversity among the Believers in Christ?

One of the ways you can realize that Satan is doing his job very well, is to just take notice of the number of denominations.

And what do they all have in common?   They all have a Theological wall that divides them from all the others.

And what built this wall?    Its built by leadership who are not valid theologically, and have mostly twisted the bible into their own self serving point of view.

Take the "prosperity gospel", crowed.   Where did that come from?   It started with an English evangelist, EW Kenyon, who created the specific theology, that was then adopted and revised by Hagan, Copelan, Hickey, and all that followed...

And let me tell you that i have no issue with prosperity, and have no issue with believer's having money.  And money matters, as it not only allows evangelism to thrive but it feeds you and your family and keeps your Church's power bill paid each month.   So, money is not the issue, its the heart in a person that is always the prob.   Its their ability to ither be responsible or irresponsible with money, and if they can see money as a device that is God given for the purpose of sustenance and benefit of  deliverance, then they are A-OK....  = If a person has that down pat, then money to them is just a tool, and its one of the greatest tools that God ever allowed us to use.

Yet, the Prosperity Gospel has made the prosperity of God almost the very definition of secular Greed.    So, the message is the issue, not the Prosperity.   

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Do keep in mind that God owns you.  He bought you with the Blood of Jesus.   The NT says you are "BOUGHT WITH A PRICE"< and that Price hung on Nails and Shed Blood.  So, you are God's and that means all you think you own, He owns.   He owns this Forum.   He Owns this internet.  He owns the air that you breath.    Are you a Mod? Are you an Owner of a Forum?    Well,   He owns your job and your Forum and He is letting you use it....so, be reminded to be wary of what you allow here as a THREAD, and make certain its not going to HARM HIS CHILDREN, or Insult GOD,.... as you are ACCOUNTABLE FOR THAT, .    

God  is just letting us  use all we think we own..   He is letting you use that body, that health, that money, that car, that HOUSE......All of it belongs to HIM, because YOU belong to him..   So, remember to use GOD's prosperity, influence, or wisdom that He is allowing you to have, with a sober mind, strict respect, and deep appreciation.

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So, there are 500 denominations?   ??????      I have no idea how many, and they all have their idea about how the bible is to be preached, or understood, and because this is so conflicted, IS the reason you have so many Denominations.

And who is the author of conflicted confusion, that you find as what is basically become the denominational walls between us all?    Answer.) Satan.

He is the author of half understood verses and wrongly divided chapters being taught on Forums, In Churches, and in Seminaries..  And he is the reason you have 300+ bible versions and none of them actually agree, 100% scripturally or theologically.

So how does all this mess happen?

Its happens because OF TIME......and because believers are not grounded in Grace from the day they are born again till the day they die, or are raptured, and until everyone who is born again becomes so, then the CHAOS will continue.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Behold

[Peavey]

11 hours ago, Melinda12 said:

Yes i agree with that. It is in the Bible. Pulling together is the best way. But oh so hard in practice, personality clashes and different opinions within churches. We are humans and we get on each other's nerves at times. 

For me i have come to a point where my well being and health is affected by the behaviour of some at church. I need peace, silence and time alone. To be with God. To find my role and path of service.  

"Pulling together" doesn't necessarily mean a "church." One can pull together with an informal group of friends, with some family members and sometimes the "pulling together" is just one Christian and God.

[Marilyn C]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2020 at 3:03 AM, P Jay said:

There is another topic floating around in my mind, and it's the idea that the Church is divided and disconnected.  There are times that I believe it is, but other times that I don't think it is.  It seems to be a fact to me that there are different churches that seem to interpret Scripture differently, and as a result they have different ideas about what it means to be  a Christian, and what it means to be a church.  There's the idea that a divided house will soon fall gives me concerns because I hear many Christian leaders talking negative ab0ut other leaders or other churches.  It seems to me that some believe that one church is better than the other.  And this seems to be one reason for the division in the Church.  Is one church better than another?  Or is it good to have diversity among the Believers in Christ?

Hi P Jay,

One of my important topics - the Church, the Body of Christ.

Now we need to distinguish between what man organises and what the Head of the Body, by His Holy Spirit, is building and maturing over the centuries and across the world. I have just recently written a series in my blog area on Worthy, `Marilyn`s Messages,` about the Body of Christ, the High Calling. You may be interested. here is a sample.

How does the Body of Christ Mature.
 

The Apostle Paul gave the early disciples the whole counsel of God. They were taught the full revelation of Christ, His character and His purposes.

`For I (Paul) have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.` (Acts 20: 27)

 

Here is a summary of the main truths, then the errors that came in and finally the restoring of those truths through the centuries.

 

Ministry gifts (Eph. 4: 11) - Bishops were substituted. (AD 110)

 

Holy Spirit infilling and gifts - Formalisation of worship. (3rd C)

 

Holiness - Amalgamation of Church and State. (AD 323)

 

Baptism for believers - Infant Sprinkling. (6th C)

 

Justification by Faith - Penance Indulgence. (AD 1063 / Dark Ages)

 

Reformation, Lutheran - Justification by Faith. (1517)

 

Baptist - Full Immersion. (1608)

 

Methodist - Holiness. (1738)

 

Pentecostal - Indwelling of the Holy Spirit. (1906)

 

 Apostolic - Christ`s ministries (Eph. 4: 11) (1916)

 

Christ`s ministries, (apostle, prophet, teacher, pastor, evangelist) develop the believers and the whole Body into spiritual maturity and understanding. They stimulate the perfecting of the `Christ life` and promote the function and ministry of each member in the Body.

 

When Christ ascended `He gave some (people) to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the Body of Christ,

 

Till we all come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ......may grow up in all things into Him who is the head - Christ.` (Eph. 4: 11 - 15)

 

 

 

 

 

[Behold]

10 hours ago, charisenexcelsis said:

There are two aspects of the body of Christ. There is an organization--which allows functionality. And there is the organism--which brings life. Both are Biblical and both are needed.

However, there is only "one body".   And yet there are multiplied hundreds of "churches" "denominations"  that all disagree on scripture exegesis.

There are NO denominations in heaven.  Not ONE.   You only find this unfortunate situation down here, where Satan has cultivated and harvested this situation.

And if we look at just the real born again, and not take into consideration all the false brethren and fake pastors, and false online Forums......if we just look at the truly born again body of Christ we will find severe discord.

And why?   its very simple.  Its because for there to be harmony and community and civility, Paul says we all have to have the same mind.   And he means, that we are all on the same page regarding one simple doctrine.

= "justification by faith", and "the gift of Righteousness",  And were this is not understood, where this is not obeyed and taught and preached, and where this is substituted for "commandment keeping performance lifestyle", you have DIVISION, ERROR, and 500 denominations and 300 bible versions.

So, the only way to have all the Brethren agree so that spiritual harmony is maintained, is to have them all theologically and doctrinally pure and connected.  And the way you do this is to obey JUST ONE VERSE in the NT, from the beginning of a person's conversion till the end of their life.

Its this verse.      Hebrews  13 9.  """" Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with GRACE; not with meats,  which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. """

That one verse, if not obeyed, results in hundreds of false doctrines being taught and believed that result in all the denominations that you see that exist.

To put it simply.....if GRACE is not the Theological and Spiritual root of a born again person from DAY ONE, then they will be "bewitched" sooner or later by a Heretic, and off they go to the tune of 500 denominations that are built on this very Satanic situation.

 

[Justin Adams]

Gnostic and New Age thought has seeped into many an assembly I fear. Then there is the PC desire and the 501 C(3) issue.

It is not simple and has to do with selfishness at its root. Then we have the 'all inclusive' crowd (all roads lead to Rome) so a new believer is faced with a morass of circumstances to choose from. Being alone or in a very small group of two or three is probably the best bet today. It is not as if God does not know this state of the believers and so many would rather stay alone and not be harangued by the masses. The 'established' church seems to have had its day really and the internet (friend or foe) carries a miasma of differing theology - much of which is NOT based on the scholarship of learned men and women.

Quick-fix and easy-believism seem to be at the forefront of most pop-evangelism-for-money organizations. So the cautious ones study and stay at home. Why should they support the 'big ones'? 

Give Bibles is a good idea for your monetary offerings and not plush carpets.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Justin Adams

[Peavey]

16 hours ago, charisenexcelsis said:

I think that it should be the other way--that you should be eager to find how to gather together and how to work together. It is easy to get into a frame of mind that allows you to find ways not to congregate. And as for it being a "church", it must be.

I didn't say one shouldn't be eager to gather together, only that it doesn't have to be in a "church" setting. The church as we have come to define it, is a building where people gather. The church that Christ defined is a spiritual temple where people gather. Not necessarily to even "hear the word" (from a preacher) but as in 1 Corinthians 14:26 - How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

This is what is missing from the church, in my opinion. People are not allowed to share unless you hold a position or are specifically called upon. Everyone has something to share.

[Marilyn C]

9 hours ago, Behold said:

However, there is only "one body".   And yet there are multiplied hundreds of "churches" "denominations"  that all disagree on scripture exegesis.

 

 

Hi Behold,

I agree there is only one Body, and also one Holy Spirit that is clarifying truth to all the members of the Body. Do you remember the great moves of the Holy Spirit over the centuries, so much truth has been restored to the Body. We are so blessed as we don`t have to die for the truth of `full immersion,` or ostracised for receiving the Holy Spirit infilling, etc,  but so many believers in the past were, as they stood for the truth.

Now people do start organisations for many reasons. At first it was to gather around a truth revealed, however nowadays it is about gathering around a person, a leader of the organisation. And the main differences today is in regards to eschatology, as it is the last great truth to be restored.

regards, Marilyn. 

[Marilyn C]

6 hours ago, charisenexcelsis said:

So, here are your alternatives:

1. No organized congregations. Resulting in little evangelism, no missionaries, no translations, no scholarship, no agreed interpretation (just reference the post on the translation of the Parable of the Ten Virgins), no one under authority, etc. This, by the way is the most precise application of your argument.

2. Every church independent of each other. Resulting in over 200 million "mini-denominations" and, again, no missionaries, no scholarship, no agreed interpretation, no one under authority, etc.

3. Stop the fighting. Recognize and practice spiritual unity under the Lordship of Jesus while utilizing the tools of a strong organization. This is what we practice in my community. "One flock, many bands."

4. Keep things the way they are with its bouts of competition.

5. Unify into one large organization.

The problem with you approach is that it isn't really a solution because it begins by demonizing every congregation, assuming that all organizations are heretical and Satanic, and offering no good example. You are your own denomination, practicing the very thing that you despise.

Hi charisenexcelsis,

So are you saying that the Holy Spirit can't or isn`t enabling the Body to function except through man`s organisations?

`Christ - from whom the whole Body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes the growth of the Body for the edifying of itself in love.` (Eph. 4: 16)

`...holding fast to the Head, from whom all the Body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligament, grows with the increase that is from God.` (Col. 2: 19)

The Lord Jesus Christ, the HEAD of the Body is doing an amazing work building and maturing His Body. Notice how the whole Body is nourished and knit together, whereas we only see the scaffolding of man`s attempts to hold meetings. We do not see the wonderful work of the Holy Spirit in every member of the Body, imparting the Divine nature and causing fruit to spring forth for those around, some a fragrance of life, while to others, death.

Let us not be naysayers who would be judges on the Lord Jesus Christ`s great work. Who are we, and what to we see over the centuries and across the world, and do we see in every believer`s heart and life as to what the Holy Spirit, organised by the HEAD, is doing in everyday life.

Instead let us give thanks to the Lord for His wondrous love to us that shapes and makes us like unto Himself. All the dross and wrong thinking will be burnt up, so let us instead look to what is being done in our own lives and those we reach out to. `What is that to you,` the Lord said to Peter, and truly `What is that to you,` as to man`s meetings, for they will all topple as drawn into Babylon, and that is not our concern.

Be encouraged, lift up our eyes and look expectantly for the return of our precious Lord and Saviour.  

 

[Marilyn C]

56 minutes ago, charisenexcelsis said:

I am saying that some assume that every church is corrupt and cannot be used by Him. But in doing so, they forget the lesson that Elijah had to learn when he thought that he was the only one. You do not contribute to the body by standing outside it and declaring damnation.

I am not against people going to public (religious) meetings. I am against the heresy that says `This is the Church, & the only legitimate way for believers to gather.`

I have friends who go to public meetings run by man`s organisations, and I have friends who don`t but meet together in all sorts of ways. The proof of the believer is in the fruit of their lives and whether they are making disciples to the Lord.