Your closest friendnt Posted March 15, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,885 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,774 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, maryjayne said: Is the important part. There's no future salvation. Just that Jesus equalled up a life for a life, Jesus for Adam, which no-one else could do because they are not perfect. The random, they say, is not for us, we have to work for salvation. Believe what you wish, that is the power of their twisted words. I cannot urge you enough to not accept what is on their website. Those are the public words, using acceptable terms to lure people in so they can get into the private teaching. You still haven't told me if you are a Jehovah's witness. From your posting and your questions you may think that what you understand is the same measure as the measure Jesus Christ upholds.... I have only brought to your attention some of the things you claim about the JW....and I made an inquiry and that what I found in a JW website.... You read it, I posted it more than once.... Does it trouble you that they post the scriptures in Hebrews and Peter's letters.... I did not looked in their other doctrines, I am not interested as I am only interested to look in the disciples teachings...including Peter, John and James and Paul who Jesus has endorsed as a pillar to the Gospel.... Are you examining what you say about the faith that they would also say.... It seems not all the time....when reference is made to other sources than to their teachings..... Jesus made something very clear.....that anyone who believes in him is not in their sins.... Is not what anyone thinks when he judges their own self or others.. God has put him as a judge over our Judgements.... We should seek and understand his judgements... I never in my post have justified or attempted to justify the JW doctrines.... So I found your question very rude and there are stronger words I do not want to use because you love Jesus as I also do.... And no one can love Jesus Christ unless they see him as their Savior...and live without the fear of death....not as a mental power as mind over matter...that's what I want to believe but for understanding a lot about what Jesus did and accoblish with his death on the Cross.. Which I did not understand for a long time but I was still Saved. Hope you may come to understand that as a saved individual I correctly understood a lot of things that contributed to make me stronger in my belief to help me to remain in the faith..... They save me from errors but not from Hell... Think carefully...slow to judge...reconsider... review...follow Jesus.... Who gave us a word of caution....that the Evil Spirit will imitate the Holy Spirit....in every way....it means it can work in a man the same way as the Holy Spirit how else can it imitate and deceived.... We are saved because of Jesus death on the Cross...they believe Jesus after the resurrection he ascended in Heaven as the Hebrews states to do the atonement...that's enough to be under the blood of the Savior... Edited March 15, 2020 by Your closest friendnt Correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhchristian Posted March 15, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 136 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,488 Content Per Day: 1.40 Reputation: 1,325 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2020 3 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: Someone is not Saved with what someones elses understands... They have Jesus as their Christ... You cannot take that away from them.... I Am taking that away from them. they believe in a different Gospel and a different Jesus than the Word of God contains. You Know what Paul said of these sorts?" let them be accursed" (Anathema). But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. (Gal. 1:8-9) They teach that Jesus was the archangel Michael who came in the form of human and is now an angel once again. No True angel of God would dare be the object of worship and allow themselves to be called LORD, save one fallen one that I can think of.... For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. (2 Cor. 11:13-15) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Marsh Posted March 15, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 126 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,090 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 501 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/15/1956 Author Share Posted March 15, 2020 On 3/14/2020 at 4:11 PM, maryjayne said: Jehovah's witnesses cannot be indwelt with the Holy Spirit as they are not baptised as Christians, due to not believing who Jesus Christ truly is, so they cannot have faith in Him. Logic. That's true and well said. How do they interact with a force? On 3/14/2020 at 4:16 PM, maryjayne said: Have you attended a Jehovah's witnesses baptism? They are baptized in the name of Jehovah God, nothing else. I had a full immersion baptism as a Christian a few years after leaving the JW's. I had previously been baptized as a JW. How do they understand Temple of Holy Spirit? On 3/14/2020 at 4:21 PM, maryjayne said: There is no Holy Spirit,as we understand it, to a JW. There is only a force, likened to electricity, which Jehovah uses. Some Christians don't realise this about their teaching. There is no Jesus Christ as we know him, just a perfect man, on a par with Adam. There is only Jehovah. Yes, there are lots of weasel words saying different things in their literature, but when you cut through the weasel words, the above points are the bottom line teaching. Often this is not evident until one has joined them and has access to further books and teaching. I have never seen a JW baptism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Marsh Posted March 15, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 126 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,090 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 501 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/15/1956 Author Share Posted March 15, 2020 4 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: This is from their website... They call Jesus the Christ. . they do not denied that Jesus is the Christ....they believe that Jesus is the Christ... That Jesus made the atonement for our sins...they do not wait for someone else to make the atonement.... THEY BELIEVE THAT THE FORGIVENESS OF SIN IS ONLY IN JESUS CHRIST .... They are not like the old Testament.... 2 Corinthians 11:4 King James Version (KJV) 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. They believe in what is known as "another Jesus" not the real one. When one puts their faith in a false Christ that can not save one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Marsh Posted March 15, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 126 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,090 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 501 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/15/1956 Author Share Posted March 15, 2020 4 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: Someone is not Saved with what someones elses understands... They have Jesus as their Christ... You cannot take that away from them.... They have a false Christ. They do not have the real one to take away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Marsh Posted March 15, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 126 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,090 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 501 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/15/1956 Author Share Posted March 15, 2020 (edited) Besides Hebrews 11 what do OT saints has to do with this? " On the issue of the Spirit’s role in the lives of believers, some scholars see basic continuity from the old to the new covenant. These authors argue that the old covenant remnant was both regenerate and indweltby the Spirit. Adherents of this position include John Owen, B.B. Warfield, Sinclair Ferguson, Dan Fuller and Leon Wood.5 Another set of scholars agrees that old covenant believers experienced both regeneration and indwelling, but seek to incorporate texts like John 7:39 into their understanding by using language that allows for a greater or heightened experience of the Spirit under the new covenant. Nevertheless, these scholars see no fundamental change in the way believers experience the Spirit when the new covenant is inaugurated. Interpreters who can be placed here include Augustine, John Calvin, George Ladd, Dan Block and Wayne Grudem.6 The third position is the midpoint of the possible views. These scholars indicate that they see OT saints as regenerate by the Spirit but not indwelt by the Spirit. From statements in their writings, it seems best to place here Millard Erickson, J.I. Packer, Willem A. VanGemeren and Bruce Ware.7 The next position is for those who see the old covenant remnant as operated upon but not indwelt by the Spirit. Unlike those in the previous category, these scholars stop short of using the word regeneration with reference to the old covenant faithful. Articulators of this view include Martin Luther, Lewis Sperry Chafer, Craig Blaising, D.A. Carson and Michael Green.8 At the opposite end of the spectrum from those who affirm full continuity between the old and new covenant ministries of the Spirit would be those who affirm that the Spirit had nothing to do with the faithfulness of the old covenant remnant. Those who argue that OT saints were indwelt sometimes assume that this is the only alternative to their view, but I have not found anyone who takes this position.9 There are, however, a number of interpreters who stress the new nature of the Spirit’s ministry after the Christ event but offer no explanation of how old covenant believers became and remained faithful. Here we find prominent dispensationalists such as Charles Ryrie and John Walvoord.10 Most scholars who have written on the Spirit from the perspective of NT theology fit here, as do several authors who have written both commentaries on John and studies specifically on the Spirit in John—C.K. Barrett, Raymond Brown and Gary Burge.11"https://themelios.thegospelcoalition.org/article/were-old-covenant-believers-indwelt-by-the-holy-spirit/ Edited March 15, 2020 by Daniel Marsh do cut paste as plan text to get correct font size 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appy Posted March 15, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2020 Do realize that their websites are not going to tell you the truth of what they really believe and are taught. They are telling you on webpages, just enough to deceive you into thinking they believe in the same way other Christian churches do. The same with the literature they leave on the doorstep. People in general, need to really know their bibles well. As they listen to what jw's say, they will very quickly spot off doctrine. But the biggest deception is that they use similar vocabulary, that sounds very Christianese, but has totally different meanings and definitions. This fools many Christians. Don't be fooled by their use of Christianese sounding words. A lot of these cult groups, while having the bible available don't actually teach from it. Most of their doctrines come from sources outside of the bible. They convince new members to believe only what the leaders tell them to believe. Leaders do not want the members thinking for themselves or actually reading a real bible for themselves when leaders are not there to interpret for them, otherwise they may see the truth. Members do not advance to higher levels unless those higher up in the chain think or believe that the individual will remain gullible. These groups are not interested in truth, they are interested in member count. If you enjoy endless and mindless debating, and have the gift of gab. Talk to them. But don't get sucked into believing or agreeing with what they tell you. Make sure that you are leading the conversation and not them. You are leading them in prayer, and not them. Since they do not believe Jesus is God, they are not praying to Jesus of the bible. They are praying to something, but NOT to the triune God. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appy Posted March 15, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2020 Daniel, can I ask you a favor. would you please fix your post on this page so that the font size is set to worthy's default font size. Too large of a font is just as difficult to read as too small. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Marsh Posted March 15, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 126 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,090 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 501 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/15/1956 Author Share Posted March 15, 2020 Propitiation [N] that by which God is rendered propitious, i.e., by which it becomes consistent with his character and government to pardon and bless the sinner. The propitiation does not procure his love or make him loving; it only renders it consistent for him to exercise his love towards sinners. In Romans 3:25 and Hebrews 9:5 (A.V., "mercy-seat") the Greek word hilasterion is used. It is the word employed by the LXX. translators in Exodus 25:17 and elsewhere as the equivalent for the Hebrew kapporeth , which means "covering," and is used of the lid of the ark of the covenant ( Exodus 25:21 ; 30:6 ). This Greek word (hilasterion) came to denote not only the mercy-seat or lid of the ark, but also propitation or reconciliation by blood. On the great day of atonement the high priest carried the blood of the sacrifice he offered for all the people within the veil and sprinkled with it the "mercy-seat," and so made propitiation. In 1 John 2:2 ; 4:10 , Christ is called the "propitiation for our sins." Here a different Greek word is used (hilasmos). Christ is "the propitiation," because by his becoming our substitute and assuming our obligations he expiated our guilt, covered it, by the vicarious punishment which he endured. (Compare Hebrews 2:17 , where the expression "make reconciliation" of the A.V. is more correctly in the RSV "make propitiation.") https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/propitiation/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Marsh Posted March 15, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 126 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,090 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 501 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/15/1956 Author Share Posted March 15, 2020 (edited) Footnote from website: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1954084 "22 If you do this you will be walking in the light and following a life pattern that will guarantee salvation to yourself. But you say, “How can I do this? Is it possible for me to make such a complete change when all my life I have been trained in the ways of the old world?” Yes, it is possible, otherwise Jesus Christ would not have died to save men of all kinds from all tribes, tongues and nations. And they could not benefit by his ransom if it were not possible for them to change and hew out a new life pattern. So you can do it! Therefore “God, after producing his Servant, sent him forth to bless you by turning each one away from your wicked deeds.” “Repent, therefore, and turn around so as to get your sins blotted out, that seasons of refreshing may come from the person of Jehovah and that he may send forth the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven, indeed, must contain within itself until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke through the mouth of his holy prophets of old time.”—Acts 3:26, 19-21, NW." Ephesians 2:8-10 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) 8 I mean that you have been saved by grace because you believed. You did not save yourselves; it was a gift from God. 9 You are not saved by the things you have done, so there is nothing to boast about. 10 God has made us what we are. In Christ Jesus, God made us new people so that we would spend our lives doing the good things he had already planned for us to do. True salvation is not by our works. John 3:16 Yes, God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him would not be lost but have eternal life. Edited March 15, 2020 by Daniel Marsh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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