Justin Adams Posted April 26, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,606 Content Per Day: 3.95 Reputation: 7,797 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 26, 2020 19 minutes ago, Eddy Crocker said: I never hear anyone using this tabernacle This is 'the Gospel in a tent' I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy Crocker Posted April 26, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,621 Content Per Day: 1.09 Reputation: 3,243 Days Won: 7 Joined: 04/08/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/15/1973 Share Posted April 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: This is 'the Gospel in a tent' I think. Another important thing to understand about the tabernacle. In the Holy place you have the candlestick, the table of Shewbread, and also the altar of incense. In the wilderness God was a pillar of fire by night and a cloud by day. This symbolizes Jesus being their light. God rained down manna from heaven symbolizing the table of Shewbread. God uses Moses as an intercessor unto the people which is symbolic of the incense Going up into the most Holy place where God dwelled as a cloud. Jesus is the door of the Holy place. He’s the light in the Holy place. He’s the bread that came down from heaven, and he’s also the intercessor in the Holy place. We are to stand in the Holy place for the reason to take the light, the bread, and also the intercession of Jesus. By doing this we are able to transcend the 6th step of the tabernacle which is the second veil. This veil is what separates the Holy place from the Most Holy place. The 6th step is symbolic of the flesh, scripture tells us that nothing unclean shall enter into heaven. The Most Holy place which symbolizes the promised land is allegorical to heaven. We must transcend the 6th step or 6th seal in order to make it into heaven or the promised land, We get all of our ability in Christ to transcend this second veil, sixth step and make it into the promised land. You can take the story of how Isreal was delivered from Egypt, (court round about) went thru the Red Sea was which was like a veil or door leading them into the Wilderness, (Holy place). The Jordan River was like a veil separating the Wilderness, (Holy place) from The promised land, (Most Holy place). This is why Moses couldn’t make it past this sixth step the Jordan River because Moses was under a physical priesthood. Only Joshua which was Yashua instituting How only Jesus’s baptism which was after the order of Melchizedek's could bring us past the Jordan River the sixth step unto the promised land (Heaven). Moses was the first of the prophets and John being the last of the prophets being under this physical priesthood. Johns head was cut off showing symbolically that Aarron’s priesthood was being cut off to usher in a new priesthood after the order of Melchizedek. This was a spiritual priesthood that showed us how the water was turned into wine at the wedding feast of Cana. How it was changed at the Day of Pentecost. Remember it was after the third day of Cana that Jesus turns the water into wine. At the day of Penticost it was after the 3rd hour. Jesus was crucified after the 3rd hour. Interesting?? Here’s something interesting, The 3rd step of the tabernacle is the brazen laver which is the water that was used to baptize the sacrifice. The water shows how Johns baptism turns into Jesus baptism of the Holy Spirit and Fire. We see this at the day of Pentecost, cloven tongues like as fire. God is giving his bride his name at Pentecost. Wow a wedding, how interesting. The day of Pentecost is when Aarron’s priesthood turns into Melchizedek's priesthood or the Old Testament turns into the New Testament, All this is happening at once. This is how the tabernacle is a valuable tool to understand the Bible correctly. Without it I don’t see anyone’s interpretations as correct. God had given us a sure way to prove everything by the measuring of the pattern. I could go on and on. Praise God for this valuable tool that is so hidden from the eyes of men!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted April 26, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.07 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 26, 2020 4 hours ago, Diaste said: On 4/25/2020 at 8:24 AM, iamlamad said: You're using an idea for your benefit and failing to apply it evenly across all the members of the group. If you, as a believer, are not appointed to wrath, then no other believer is appointed to wrath either. This is a theory, but it is not the truth of scripture. There many "believers" that are not "born again." In other words, they BELIEVE in Christ, but they are not "IN Christ." They are not qualified for the rapture. Paul is very clear that the rapture is reserved for those IN CHRIST: that means, born again. What is God to do? Will He withhold wrath because some people did not get born again? No, wrath is written and will surely come. God will take out of the earth all who are Born again and expecting Him. We cannot pull scriptures out of their context. We cannot form doctrine from isolated scriptures! We form doctrine from ALL end times scriptures - IN CONTEXT. A nice try iamlamad, but fallacious. It's the 'one true Scotsman' logical fallacy. I of course would be talking about all those eligible for redemption and salvation in the Lord at any time and any from any age across history. You're injecting a conflation of groups that are unrelated to the topic. Sorry, but only New Covenant people are "in Christ," so the rapture of the church is ONLY for the church, not for Old Testament saints. Their resurrection is most likely at the 7th vial that ends the 70th week. Therefore, it is your theory that is "fallacious." The truth of scripture is that the 70th week is for "Daniel's" people. Israel as a nation was God's chosen through Abraham. God made many promises to them, some good, but some bad if they did not follow Him. OF COURSE what God has promised must be fulfilled. As Daniel wrote in chapter 12, God's purpose is to totally and completely shatter the power of Israel as a nation until they have only ONE hope left: unless God intervenes, all hope is lost and Israel will be no more. OF COURSE God will show up at the last moment and save the day. Therefore, all sinners are appointed to wrath, PLUS the nation of Israel is also, but ONLY until their power is shattered and they cry out to God - which, of course, was His initial purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted April 26, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,606 Content Per Day: 3.95 Reputation: 7,797 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 26, 2020 8 minutes ago, iamlamad said: Sorry, but only New Covenant people are "in Christ," so the rapture of the church is ONLY for the church, not for Old Testament saints. Says who? You? Or your whacky gospel? Where do you guys come up with these crazy notions? Surely it is up to the Lord High God. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy Crocker Posted April 26, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,621 Content Per Day: 1.09 Reputation: 3,243 Days Won: 7 Joined: 04/08/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/15/1973 Share Posted April 26, 2020 20 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: Says who? You? Or your whacky gospel? Where do you guys come up with these crazy notions? Surely it is up to the Lord High God. Why is Moses and Elijah seen on the Mount of transfiguration? It’s because they were Raptured and seen in their glorified bodies. Wasn’t Elijah taken up in a chariot of fire? These two witnesses Moses and Elijah were in the Old Testament, Ephesians 4:8-10 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things. 1 Peter 3:18-21 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: These two different scripture references shows how Christ preached the Gospel to the Old Testament Saints to bring them a resurrection which was a rapture to raise them out of their Adamic curse or death decree they were under. This death decree didn’t allow their bodies to resurrect or rapture unto those heavenly places in Christ. It’s the preaching of the death, burial, and resurrection that is the gospel by which we are saved and elevated. This is why it says in.., Mathew 27:52.., And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, This is the reality of the Old Testament saints being raptured and resurrected out of their bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted April 26, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,606 Content Per Day: 3.95 Reputation: 7,797 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 26, 2020 7 minutes ago, Eddy Crocker said: This is the reality of the Old Testament saints being raptured and resurrected out of their bodies. Yes, and when the Temple Veil was torn, many were also seen out of their graves in the city... probably on their way up there... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted April 26, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,078 Content Per Day: 1.10 Reputation: 202 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 26, 2020 (edited) On 4/24/2020 at 7:28 AM, choir loft said: Quote In order to justify your ideology you deliberately misquote scripture. Verse 37 is correctly written in the Bible as "Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.” (*) Why did you conveniently leave the correct words out? You left them out because they provide an embarrassing illumination upon your error. Oh, so I deliberately misquoted scripture? All I did was copy and paste, like this. Luke 17 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. Did you not take the time to read your own footnote which should tell you I misquoted nothing? Let me provide the illumination in your quote. Quote (*) Some translations prefer the phrase 'dead bodies' while others, like the KJV, simply say 'body'. In all cases the phrase is accompanied by the modifier description of vultures/eagles. While it is possible to deliberately misconstrue the phrase 'bodies' it cannot be misunderstood when the final words are considered. Vultures or eagles gather upon carcasses like birds upon road kill. The textual image is certified by the inclusion of carrion birds. This in no way can be honestly interpreted as angelic beings or a heavenly banquet. It is the sad result of SIN and faithlessness. So as you might be able to see, I have misquoted nothing. And I certainly would not deliberately misquote scripture. Since I perceived you as just another blind guy doing a bunch of yelling with no clue of what the Word says, I merely took the verse that you quoted, went to a proper translation and copied. Then I checked the Greek to make sure that it said eagles, and of course it did, as it is a proper translation. Had you quoted Matthew 24:28. we could have gotten to the heart of the matter, sooner. This of course, changes nothing, as I already told you that I know and agree that eagles eat carrion. Matt 24 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Quote Are carcasses stored in heaven? NO. Do dead decomposing bodies appear in any description of paradise including your dinner party? NO. My point, my dear misguided brother, is that Rapture fanatics MUST DELIBERATELY misquote scripture and take its inferences out of context in order to justify an anti-Christian End Times doctrine of demons. And as I have already proven above, NOTHING HAS BEEN MISQUOTED, let alone deliberately. You are in error brother. Quote Show me ANY verse in scripture that describes dead decomposing bodies in heaven. You cannot for there is not. Nice straw man. Let me try. Show me any verse in scripture that describes that vultures ride motorcycles.. You cannot for there is not. Quote What is the destiny of the taken? The destiny of the taken is the clouds. Rev 14 14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. Quote JESUS said they are taken to a place where dead bodies are gathered. I see no evidence that Jesus said that. This is something that you have concluded, INCORRECTLY. Quote JESUS said they are taken to a place where dead bodies are gathered. In that place their bones are picked apart by carrions birds/birds of prey. You cannot escape the awful conclusion of the WORDS OF CHRIST, but you can indeed misquote them, misinterpret them and deliberately ignore their implication. The only one misquoting scripture is you. So you want to say that the taken go to a place where dead bodies are gathered. Let's let the Word speak for itself. Luke 17 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. Matt 24 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Do you see bodies mentioned anywhere? No, you see body. Do you see carcasses mentioned anywhere? No you see carcase. So you have taken the plural from eagles and have and applied it to body to create bodies or applied it to carcase and created carcasses. You have taken a SINGLE BODY and transformed it into the plains of Armageddon. Please try to pay more attention. Quote Those that are taken go to DESTRUCTION. They don't go to a dinner party. Those that are taken go to the clouds, just like the Word says. Quote It is counter productive to a growing faith and the attitude of cowards who refuse to accept tribulation in their lives. Or we could be wise, and learn what the written Word says. Then we could chose to accept that's God plan for the Church concludes before the 70th week of Daniel begins. Quote I say, BRING IT ON. With God's help I can get through anything. I welcome those things which sharpen and focus faith. I reject those things which erode it - including but not limited to the Rapture theory. It would probably be much wiser to gain an understanding of God's Word than it would be to struggle in your flesh. Here is what the Word says. 1 Thes 4 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Quote that's me, hollering from the choir loft... That's me, letting the Word of God speak for itself. Edited April 26, 2020 by The Light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted April 26, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,078 Content Per Day: 1.10 Reputation: 202 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 26, 2020 On 4/24/2020 at 7:28 AM, choir loft said: Quote (*) Some translations prefer the phrase 'dead bodies' while others, like the KJV, simply say 'body'. In all cases the phrase is accompanied by the modifier description of vultures/eagles. While it is possible to deliberately misconstrue the phrase 'bodies' it cannot be misunderstood when the final words are considered. Vultures or eagles gather upon carcasses like birds upon road kill. The textual image is certified by the inclusion of carrion birds. This in no way can be honestly interpreted as angelic beings or a heavenly banquet. It is the sad result of SIN and faithlessness. I see not one single translation that says "dead bodies". There is not a single translation that adds a plural to body, carcass, or corpse. They are all singular. So as I showed you before it is you that are misquoting scripture. Are you misquoting scripture from lack of knowledge or fear or another reason? New International Version "Where, Lord?" they asked. He replied, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather." New Living Translation “Where will this happen, Lord?” the disciples asked. Jesus replied, “Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near.” English Standard Version And they said to him, “Where, Lord?” He said to them, “Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.” Berean Study Bible “Where, Lord?” they asked. Jesus answered, “Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.” Berean Literal Bible And answering, they say to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered together." New American Standard Bible And answering they said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered." New King James Version And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?” So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.” King James Bible And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. Christian Standard Bible "Where, Lord?" they asked him. He said to them, "Where the corpse is, there also the vultures will be gathered." Contemporary English Version Then Jesus' disciples spoke up, "But where will this happen, Lord?" Jesus said, "Where there is a corpse, there will always be vultures." Good News Translation The disciples asked him, "Where, Lord?" Jesus answered, "Wherever there is a dead body, the vultures will gather." Holman Christian Standard Bible Where, Lord?" they asked Him. He said to them, "Where the corpse is, there also the vultures will be gathered." International Standard Version Then they asked him, "Where, Lord, will this take place?" He told them, "Wherever there's a corpse, there the vultures will gather." NET Bible Then the disciples said to him, "Where, Lord?" He replied to them, "Where the dead body is, there the vultures will gather." New Heart English Bible They, answering, asked him, "Where, Lord?" He said to them, "Where the body is, there will the vultures also be gathered together." Aramaic Bible in Plain English And they answered and they were saying to him, “To where, Our Lord?” He said to them, “Wherever the bodies are, there the eagles shall be gathered.” GOD'S WORD® Translation They asked him, "Where, Lord?" Jesus told them, "Vultures will gather wherever there is a dead body." New American Standard 1977 And answering they said to Him, “Where, Lord?” And He said to them, “Where the body is, there also will the vultures be gathered.” King James 2000 Bible And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wherever the body is, there will the vultures be gathered together. American King James Version And they answered and said to him, Where, Lord? And he said to them, Wherever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. American Standard Version And they answering say unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Where the body is , thither will the eagles also be gathered together. Douay-Rheims Bible Who said to them: Wheresoever the body shall be, thither will the eagles also be gathered together. Darby Bible Translation And answering they say to him, Where, Lord? And he said to them, Where the body [is], there the eagles will be gathered together. English Revised Version And they answering say unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Where the body is, thither will the eagles also be gathered together. Webster's Bible Translation And they answered and said to him, Where Lord? And he said to them, Wherever the body is, thither will the eagles be collected. Weymouth New Testament "Where, Master?" they inquired. "Where the dead body is," He replied, "there also will the vultures flock together." World English Bible They, answering, asked him, "Where, Lord?" He said to them, "Where the body is, there will the vultures also be gathered together." Young's Literal Translation And they answering say to him, 'Where, sir?' and he said to them, 'Where the body is, there will the eagles be gathered together.' Quote In NO translation is there a modifier or additional reference to imply the 'taken' of verse 37 go to heaven. It's quite the opposite in fact. Oh, another straw man. Let me try. In NO translation is there a modifier of additional reference to imply the 'taken' of verse 37 go to Armageddon. 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iamlamad Posted April 26, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.07 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Justin Adams said: 2 hours ago, iamlamad said: Sorry, but only New Covenant people are "in Christ," so the rapture of the church is ONLY for the church, not for Old Testament saints. Says who? You? Or your whacky gospel? Where do you guys come up with these crazy notions? Surely it is up to the Lord High God. I said it. You should believe it because it is truth. But I said it because the Bible said it first. There is no scripture anywhere that tells us the Old Covenant saints were "in Christ." Indeed, their sins were charged on a "Master-card" to the death of Christ on the cross, but the were trapped in Hades upon death until Jesus could free time. A FEW ("many" but not all) of the vast numbers of saints from before the flood to the time of Moses and the law and up to Christ - were resurrected when Jesus rose from the dead. I suspect they were the ELDERS. Adam would certainly have been the most "elder" of them all. Don't misunderstand or be distracted: some of the Old Testament saints were "filled with the Spirit" but that is speaking PHYSICALLY, as in being anointed by the Holy Spirit: the prophet, priest and king were anointed for the tasks they had to fulfill - but NONE of them could be "born again" or receive a new spirit inside - for that was impossible before Christ died and rose again. If it were possible, then Jesus would not have had to die. By the way, is everything "wacky" if it does not agree with your thinking? Our theories must come from the written word of God, correctly understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted April 26, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.07 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 26, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, The Light said: So what do YOU think? Where are the "taken" taken? Does this sound like an answer Jesus would make if He was thinking of the rapture of the church, where old bodies are changed to resurrection bodies? I don't think so. Maybe you do. Perhaps it is the spirit and soul "taken" and a dead body is left for the birds. Edited April 26, 2020 by iamlamad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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