BlessedCreator Posted April 18, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 136 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 76 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/16/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2020 The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. I will tell you why I included verse 16 in a moment. The catching up together of those who are alive when the Lord returns, that is the rapture. So we see there will indeed be a rapture. The controversy with the rapture is not a matter of whether it is real or not. The controversy is over the timing. Some are teaching that the rapture happens before the Lord returns at the very end. They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early. This is completely wrong and I will show you why it is such a dangerous doctrine to believe. Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture. In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important. The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together. What does this mean? This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens. Why is this important? Because if we can figure out when the resurrection happens then we can know exactly when the rapture happens because it takes place right after. Thankfully God is not the author of confusion and has not left us without sound doctrine so that we are not left in the dark concerning these things. The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place. John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:39 And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. The word is clear, the resurrection happens on the LAST DAY. Therefore the rapture also happens on the last day. If you are expecting the true messiah Jesus Christ to return before the very end to save you from the persecution of the Antichrist and his wicked followers then you are actually going to get the false messiah/Antichrist who comes to deceive the world into believing that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Christians have been martyred (killed for their faith) the last 2000 years since Christ came. They are being martyred now, even openly in eastern countries. And we will continue to be martyred until the very end. Few will survive to take part in the rapture. Nobody is getting an escape card in these last days. It is our duty as Christians to share the truth (edify) with our brothers and sisters. There are many that are deceived by this false doctrine, prepared to receive the coming Antichrist. Please share with them what you have just learned. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted April 18, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2020 10 minutes ago, BlessedCreator said: The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. I will tell you why I included verse 16 in a moment. The catching up together of those who are alive when the Lord returns, that is the rapture. So we see there will indeed be a rapture. The controversy with the rapture is not a matter of whether it is real or not. The controversy is over the timing. Some are teaching that the rapture happens before the Lord returns at the very end. They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early. This is completely wrong and I will show you why it is such a dangerous doctrine to believe. Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture. In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important. The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together. What does this mean? This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens. Why is this important? Because if we can figure out when the resurrection happens then we can know exactly when the rapture happens because it takes place right after. Thankfully God is not the author of confusion and has not left us without sound doctrine so that we are not left in the dark concerning these things. The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place. John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:39 And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. The word is clear, the resurrection happens on the LAST DAY. Therefore the rapture also happens on the last day. If you are expecting the true messiah Jesus Christ to return before the very end to save you from the persecution of the Antichrist and his wicked followers then you are actually going to get the false messiah/Antichrist who comes to deceive the world into believing that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Christians have been martyred (killed for their faith) the last 2000 years since Christ came. They are being martyred now, even openly in eastern countries. And we will continue to be martyred until the very end. Few will survive to take part in the rapture. Nobody is getting an escape card in these last days. It is our duty as Christians to share the truth (edify) with our brothers and sisters. There are many that are deceived by this false doctrine, prepared to receive the coming Antichrist. Please share with them what you have just learned. I do not support your theology. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zemke Posted April 18, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,028 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 451 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/24/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2020 (edited) In speaking of the Day of the Lord on the day of Pentecost, Peter called it that great and glorious day. Now the day of the Lord for most will be darkness and not light but for those who believe, it will be glorious. But Peter also said the sun will turn to darkness and the moon to blood - BEFORE - that great and glorious day of the Lord comes. Acts2 Jesus said the same thing in Matthew 24. Timing isn't the biggest issue overall when it comes to the return of Christ. Yes we are to watch but being ready is what is most important about prophetic teaching. We have turned it into a timing madness instead of a holiness, walking in the Spirit, exhortation. Oil is the essential aspect because it seems to me when we know to look up the issue will not be who was on first or what was on second, but do we have oil in our lamps? The Lord can come for me tonight and He can come for you tonight, but the resurrection/rescue? I believe we will know when it's the season. Not the day or hour but we will know to start looking up. The time to get the oil is now. There will be a day the ark door will close. Edited April 18, 2020 by Zemke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branchesofHim Posted April 18, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 211 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,463 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 759 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/09/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/23/1966 Share Posted April 18, 2020 The doctrine of rapture could be equated to the Israelites being delivered from Egypt. Written as an example for us, upon whom the end of the world is come. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus my friend Posted April 18, 2020 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 8 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/08/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2020 2 hours ago, BlessedCreator said: The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. I will tell you why I included verse 16 in a moment. The catching up together of those who are alive when the Lord returns, that is the rapture. So we see there will indeed be a rapture. The controversy with the rapture is not a matter of whether it is real or not. The controversy is over the timing. Some are teaching that the rapture happens before the Lord returns at the very end. They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early. This is completely wrong and I will show you why it is such a dangerous doctrine to believe. Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture. In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important. The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together. What does this mean? This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens. Why is this important? Because if we can figure out when the resurrection happens then we can know exactly when the rapture happens because it takes place right after. Thankfully God is not the author of confusion and has not left us without sound doctrine so that we are not left in the dark concerning these things. The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place. John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:39 And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. The word is clear, the resurrection happens on the LAST DAY. Therefore the rapture also happens on the last day. If you are expecting the true messiah Jesus Christ to return before the very end to save you from the persecution of the Antichrist and his wicked followers then you are actually going to get the false messiah/Antichrist who comes to deceive the world into believing that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Christians have been martyred (killed for their faith) the last 2000 years since Christ came. They are being martyred now, even openly in eastern countries. And we will continue to be martyred until the very end. Few will survive to take part in the rapture. Nobody is getting an escape card in these last days. It is our duty as Christians to share the truth (edify) with our brothers and sisters. There are many that are deceived by this false doctrine, prepared to receive the coming Antichrist. Please share with them what you have just learned. Very well said, I will enforce your point even further from the book of Revelation, it reads as follows: Revelation 16 Lexham English Bible (LEB) And I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.” (1) And the first went and poured out his bowl on the earth, and there was an evil and painful sore on the people who had the mark of the beast and who worshiped his image. (2) And the second poured out his bowl on the sea, and it became blood, like that of a dead person, and every living thing that was in the sea died. (3) And the third poured out his bowl on the rivers and the springs of water, and they became blood. And I heard the angel of the waters saying, “You are righteous, the one who is and the one who was, the Holy One, because you have judged these things, because they have poured out the blood of the saints and prophets, and you have given them blood to drink; they are deserving!” And I heard the altar saying, “Yes, Lord God All-Powerful, true and righteous are your judgments.” (4) And the fourth poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was granted to it to burn up people with fire. And people were burned up by the great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who has the authority over these plagues, and they did not repent to give him glory. (5) And the fifth poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became darkened, and they began chewing their tongues because of the pain. And they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pain and because of their sores, and they did not repent of their deeds. (6) And the sixth poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, in order that the way would be prepared for the kings from the east. And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet three unclean spirits like frogs. For they are the spirits of demons performing signs that go out to the kings of the whole inhabited world, to gather them for the battle of the great day of God the All-Powerful. (Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who is on the alert and who keeps his clothing, so that he does not walk around naked and they see his shamefulness!) And he gathered them to the place called in Hebrew Armageddon. (7) And the seventh poured out his bowl on the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” And there were lightnings and sounds and thunders, and there was a great earthquake, as has not happened from the time humanity has been on the earth—so great in this way was the earthquake. And the great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of his furious wrath. And every island fled, and mountains were not found. And large hailstones, weighing about a hundred pounds, came down from the sky upon people, and the people blasphemed God because of the plague of hail, because the plague of it was very great. As you can read, between the sixth and the seventh (and last) bowl, which are being poured on the earth as God's wrath, Jesus is saying: Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who is on the alert and who keeps his clothing, so that he does not walk around naked and they see his shamefulness! So right after the sixth bowl, and before the seventh bowl Jesus is still saying He is coming, so He has not come yet, even before the last bowl. That shows us, that Jesus will come after all 7 seals are opened, all 7 trumpets are sound, and all 7 bowls are poured unto the earth and its inhabitants. So the rapture of 1 Thessalonians 4 is true, and as BlessedCreator said, its timing will happen at the last day, after the wrath of God has been poured out with its seven bowls. We are made to go through TRIBULATIONS like WARRIORS, OORAH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus my friend Posted April 18, 2020 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 8 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/08/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, missmuffet said: I do not support your theology. Because you're used to spreading false teaching and need to get your spirit in check and under the Holy Spirit's guidance. Edited April 19, 2020 by George This would be consider a personal attack. Explain why you believe she is in error ... instead of insinuating that she is promoting 'false teaching'. Explain it in love ... Read 2 Tim 2:24-36. God bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted April 19, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 771 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,937 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 19, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jesus my friend said: Because you're used to spreading false teaching and need to get your spirit in check and under the Holy Spirit's guidance. Foolish virgins left behind n screamed "Lord Lord take us in" but the wise virgins already taken n leave those foolish behind in Great Tribulation. Sad sad sad. Edited April 19, 2020 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlessedCreator Posted April 19, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 136 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 76 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/16/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 19, 2020 @Jesus my friend That's an interesting point! @R. Hartono There is no "great tribulation" or "7 year tribulation" that is supposed to happen in these end times. The great tribulation is speaking of the tribulations that all Christians must endure from the time of Christ's ascension unti the end. We've been in the tribulation for nearly 2000 years and it's almost over. If you're referring to the 7 year tribulation which is based on Daniel's 70 weeks. In the last week is referring to Christ not the antichrist. I will make a thread soon to prove this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagain2011 Posted April 19, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 602 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 233 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/15/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 19, 2020 Aren't the virgins the guests of the wedding and not the bride? This is what I see when I read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted April 19, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 19, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, BlessedCreator said: The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. ... The catching up together of those who are alive when the Lord returns, that is the rapture. So we see there will indeed be a rapture. The controversy with the rapture is not a matter of whether it is real or not. The controversy is over the timing. Some are teaching that the rapture happens before the Lord returns at the very end. They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early. This is completely wrong and I will show you why it is such a dangerous doctrine to believe. Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture. In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important. The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together. What does this mean? This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens. Why is this important? Because if we can figure out when the resurrection happens then we can know exactly when the rapture happens because it takes place right after. Thankfully God is not the author of confusion and has not left us without sound doctrine so that we are not left in the dark concerning these things. The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place. John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:39 And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. The word is clear, the resurrection happens on the LAST DAY. Therefore the rapture also happens on the last day. If you are expecting the true messiah Jesus Christ to return before the very end to save you from the persecution of the Antichrist and his wicked followers then you are actually going to get the false messiah/Antichrist who comes to deceive the world into believing that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Christians have been martyred (killed for their faith) the last 2000 years since Christ came. They are being martyred now, even openly in eastern countries. And we will continue to be martyred until the very end. Few will survive to take part in the rapture. Nobody is getting an escape card in these last days. It is our duty as Christians to share the truth (edify) with our brothers and sisters. There are many that are deceived by this false doctrine, prepared to receive the coming Antichrist. Please share with them what you have just learned. This post SOUNDs right, until someone reads it that really knows their scriptures. First, what did Jesus mean by "the last day?" Did He mean "the day of the Lord" that will finish out the age? To WHOM was He speaking: to Jews or to Gentiles. Indeed, I see the resurrection of the Old Covenant saints "on the last day: the last 24 hours of the day. But I also see Jesus coming pretrib for the Gentile church - so two separate groups and two different timings. If we study Paul - the ONLY man who received the revelation of the rapture - Paul tells us that His rapture will come a moment before Wrath begins: in fact, those caught up will feel the ground begin to shake (Paul's sudden destruction) as they escape and fly up into the air. Paul teaches us that His coming will start the rapture event and then the rapture will start the Day of the Lord. So where in Revelation do these clues Paul gives us fit? Of course, JUST before wrath. In Revelation the day of His wrath begins at the 6th seal. Therefore, Paul's rapture is going to come a moment before the earthquake - and the earthquake will be Paul's sudden destruction. Will this fit in Revelation's narrative? PERFECTLY: the 5th seal is for the martyrs of the church age. The early martyrs had NO IDEA how long the age of grace would last, so they asked. They were told that judgment is not coming during the age of grace: they have to wait for the very last martyr to be killed as they were - as church age martyrs. So what will make the very last church age martyr: Of course, the END of the church age. The pretrib rapture ends the church age. So in reality they were told they have to wait for the rapture of the church. The very next martyr will be a Day of the Lord or 70th week martyr. The next event John covers in real time (skipping chapter 7) is the 7th seal that officially starts the 70th week of Daniel or the trib. Let's see: which was first - the rapture or the trib? OF COURSE Scripture shows us the rapture comes first and triggers the Day of the Lord. Then days later (maybe the days of Awe) The 70th week begins with the 30 minutes of silence, then the first trumpet judgment. It is no mistake then that John got to SEE the raptured church IN HEAVEN in chapter 7, right after the rapture at the Day of the Lord. Don't be led astray by what John wrote - that these came (one by one in the Greek) out of "great tribulation." All John is telling us is that God thinks of the entire church age as "great tribulation." IF we consider the number of martyrs, I think it IS great. But it is NOT the days of GT that Jesus spoke of, for they will come in the second half of the week - and John has not even started the week yet. Therefore I find the scriptures definitely teach a pretrib rapture. In fact, a pretrib rapture is the only way to get to heaven for the marriage and supper. Edited April 19, 2020 by iamlamad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts