Predestination and The Matrix

[Manonfire63]

Some Christians have worked to make doctrines.  I have seen concepts.  What is the difference between a doctrine and a concept?  A doctrine may have been a fix set of beliefs.  Someone created a doctrine, and tried to make the Bible work around or with their doctrine.  A concept is an idea or a thing.  John Calvin talked about the Doctrine of Predestination.  I see a Spiritual Concept of Predestination which there may have been something to it, and given we get it most right, it fits with understandings in the Bible, and we may be able to see how it has worked by observing humanity.  In general, given someone made a doctrine, or referenced the Spiritual......there may have been something to it.  God is a creator.  Did they get it right? 

In Luke 20:9-19, we have the Parable of the Tenant Farmers. 

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The Parable of the Tenant Farmers

⁹ He went on to tell the people this parable: “A man planted a vineyard, rented it to some farmers and went away for a long time. ¹⁰ At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants so they would give him some of the fruit of the vineyard. But the tenants beat him and sent him away empty-handed. ¹¹ He sent another servant, but that one also they beat and treated shamefully and sent away empty-handed. ¹² He sent still a third, and they wounded him and threw him out.

¹³ “Then the owner of the vineyard said, ‘What shall I do? I will send my son, whom I love; perhaps they will respect him.’

¹⁴ “But when the tenants saw him, they talked the matter over. ‘This is the heir,’ they said. ‘Let’s kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’ ¹⁵ So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

“What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them? ¹⁶ He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others.”

When the people heard this, they said, “God forbid!”

¹⁷ Jesus looked directly at them and asked, “Then what is the meaning of that which is written:

“‘The stone the builders rejected
    has become the cornerstone’^[a]?

¹⁸ Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.”

¹⁹ The teachers of the law and the chief priests looked for a way to arrest him immediately, because they knew he had spoken this parable against them. But they were afraid of the people.  (Luke 20:9-19)

 

Mankind is like God's Vineyard.  The Tenant Farmers were teachers of religious law.  Given the teachers of religious law were off, everyone else would be off?  Given the teachers of religious law were not doing the right things, or were corrupt, or hated God, that may mean that many men lived and died in a Matrix of Lies.  They lived and died with false perceptions about God, and themselves, and may have had a hard time finding God.  God showed me that through space and time, he may have had pieces like on a game board.  Through space and time, he may have planned for some people to help bring the rest back.  These men and women were Predetermined.  It is not that the rest of mankind could not have found God.  It was more that they were in a Matrix of Lies. 

What is an example of a Matrix of Lies or False Perceptions today?  I am a certified Social Studies Teacher.  In an Introduction to Education class, someone may have learned that there were seven Educational Philosophies.  These include Essentialism, Perennialism, Progressivism, Social Reconstructionism, Existentialism, Behaviorism, Constructivism, Conservatism, and Humanism.  Which one of those helps people find and understand God?  Any of them?  In two years of Education Classes, I was mostly taught about Progressive Education like John Dewey.  In Progressive Education, teachers are taught to teach to culture and teach to the students.  Given there were ungodly, or pagan, or other negative influences in culture, a teacher would teach to that culture.  Progressive Education may have cemented in bad cultural traits and habits, made selfish or feel entitled, and hurt people from finding God.  Education that may have been more constructive towards someone finding and growing in Faith with God may have been education focus more on Enduring Spiritual Themes more like a Classical or Perennial Education.  There have been Enduring Themes in the Bible as it applies to mankind and history, the present, and the future.  To see more someone may need to understand Enduring Spiritual Themes.  Progressive Education would be faulty in working to understand God and creation.  Progressive Education has created a Matrix of False Perspectives.  People who have been taught to think like that may have had a harder time understanding God. 

John Calvin's Doctrine of Predestination lacks in an understanding of Freewill and The Parable of the Tenant Farmers.  The Concept of Predestination.....there may have been something to it.  What do you see? 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Manonfire63

[Manonfire63]

False Perceptions - 

Someone played a lot of Call of Duty.  He joined the US Army, and thought he was going to be an Army of One.  He had false perceptions.  He may have ended up hit with hard reality during basic training. 

Ancient Rome had a slave economy where Usury was looked down upon.  An Ancient Roman perceived the world a lot different than people have in 2020.  Some living in 30 AD and 2020 were living in "Different Worlds."   Part of Spiritual Warfare is a war of words or a war of thoughts.  What needs to happen to get man towards being one mind with God, and having a relationship with God? 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Manonfire63

[Justin Adams]

3 minutes ago, Manonfire63 said:

John Calvin's Doctrine of Predestination lacks in an understanding of Freewill and The Parable of the Tenant Farmers.  The Concept of Predestination.....there may have been something to it.  What do you see? 

Calvin may have been regarded as a founder of the reformed stuff, but I dislike him immensely. I also think the reformed content was largely ill advised. The rotten TULIP idea, later constructed to supposedly encapsule his doctrine is abhorrent. His words against the Jews are nasty and reflect the usual intolerance of the times he lived in. It is altogether horrible what 'believers' like that have done to fellow Christians.

[Manonfire63]

Question:  How may a Christian go about countering, effectively, Progressivism or Progressive Education in the Public Square?  How does someone most effectively mix Politics and Religion? 

In France in 1200 AD, a wealthy Nobleman had too many sons, and he sent one into the Church.  He plays politics, and works to make his son a Bishop, a major land owner, towards gaining The Family more power and influence.  In this instance, religion and politics were wrong.  That son, prior to being a Bishop, may have needed to be a Monastic for some times, and become separate from outside ties.  As a servant of God, his ties to his family become less, and he is more in the family of God.  His goals or motivations become God's Goals.  Building the Kingdom of God. 

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We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. (2 Corinthians 10:5) 

Part of Spiritual Warfare has been a war of words or a war of thoughts.  In Early Christianity, there were pagan mystery and philosophy schools.  Early Christians in Spiritual Warfare, a war of words or a war of thoughts, may have taken what they could use from Plato and Aristotle and the Stoics and others, and the rest was discarded.  Early Christians tended to be in conflict with said pagan mystery schools and Neo-Platonism  and others.  Today, various Philosophies and ideologies have worked to marginalize Christianity, and taught Christians to be complacent and weak.  The Meek before God shall inherit The Earth.  King David was meek before God.  King David was not meek before the enemies of God or blasphemers. 

Progressivism was something rooted in American Christianity.  John Winthrop "A City Upon a Hill" was striving for a Utopian vision rooted in a Christian understanding.  A New Jerusalem coming down.  To Progress implies we are going somewhere positive.  Teddy Roosevelt was a Progressive.  He was in conflict and had different ideas about what progress meant then other Progressives like Woodrow Wilson.  Someone may be able to clearly see if progress is good or not by answering the question "Where are we going?" or "What is the goal?" 

In 2015, the Progressive movement was progressing?  To what? 

Moveon.org was moving on?  To what? 

Barrack Obama talked about "Hope and Change?"  Hope for what?  Change TO what? 

What has been the motive behind different politics or politicians?  We may be able to break a lot of left leaning politics and the motivation behind them down to: 
 

• An Atheistic Socialist State, with no borders, that denies Book of Daniel.  (Daniel 12)  Left leaning politics has tended to be pushed by people who see all religion as basically equal.  Marriage as a failed institution.  People who have had a number on ungodly, Luciferian goals and objectives. 

In terms of Philosophy, people like Thomas Aquinas, who was a major philosopher, looked down upon philosophers.  He was at odds or in conflict with them.  Part of Spiritual Warfare has been a war of words and a war of thoughts.  Something like the Johnson Amendment worked to sideline pastors and Churches towards.......Luciferianism.  Luciferianism, the belief that God is the dark, and man or something else is the light.  By what right does a Secular Humanist or Secular Progressive have to Judge or Chastise and Rebuke God or Christians?  They worked to steal things from Christianity, and apply a moral standard that changes like the wind?  They are chaff? 

These are some ideas or thoughts about towards someone holding an argument in the public square through the Spirit of God. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Manonfire63

[Manonfire63]

Nothing New Happens Under the Sun.  (Ecclesiastes 1:9-11) 

Was a Progressive working to build the Kingdom of God, rejecting Earthly politics, and not working to please man, but God? That would be good? 

Was a Progressive working outside of God, working to please man, and go with what was hip or popular, and had his thoughts and ideas boxed into an ideology that has ideas that do not work well in the context of God's Word?  He may have been a false teacher leading people into intelligent design traps.  (Romans 1:18-25)  Nothing new happens under the sun. 

In general, Liberal Ideology is not compatible with The Bible. 

 

The Body of Christ

Christians are a Body of Christ. When they take communion they eat of the body and drink of the blood. In the Body, some are the hands, some the feet, some the mouth, some the eyes. Some are Apostles, some are Prophets, some are Pastors, some are Evangelists. We all have a function in the Body. A society of believers. We are a Body of Christ, an Organic Society. (Ephesians 4:11-16)

Where this is profound for teachers and understanding:

Atomism - A belief that society is made up of a collection of self-interested and largely self-sufficient individuals or atoms, rather than social groups. (Liberal Belief on Society)

Organicism - A belief that society operates like an organism or living entity, the whole being more than a collection of its individual parts. (Conservative View on Society.)   

In an organic society, we have many working parts.  The logger cuts trees.  The truck driver moves product to a factory.  The factor turns the logs into wood products.  The store provides these products to the consumer to buy.  Given one part of the system here isn't working right it may hurt the whole chain.  In a similar way, there have been working parts to Christianity and the Body of Christ.  Given a part of the Body isn't working well or at all, it may hurt the whole body.  

Someone who was Atomistic may have been selfish or egotistical.  He may have been in sin, and doing wrong, and didn't want to believe or understanding how his sin may have influenced others into sin and corruption.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       


                                                   

Edited April 20, 2020 by Manonfire63

[Absolem]

I don't think predestination and free will are mutually exclusive. They are both taught in Scripture.

 

Whats limited is mans ability to understand Gods ways. His ways are beyond ours and His thoughts beyond our thoughts.

 

People like to divide up and sectionalize certain doctrines of Scripture in order to "have a grasp" but end up failing anyway.