OneLight Posted June 4, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.20 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 4, 2020 27 minutes ago, TMarcum said: Likewise: 1) Can you show where an/or when the Beast that ascended out of the bottomless pit (Rev 11:7 & Rev 17:8), was cast into the pit? 2) Can you show anywhere in the bible suggests there are 2 periods when the pit is occupied? I see, you are trying to tell me that I should not take scripture as it is written and when asked for proof, you redirect and request proof you are wrong. That is not how a discussion is done. The onus is on you to show me why I should not take scripture as it is written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMarcum Posted June 4, 2020 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 76 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 hour ago, douggg said: No, Satan is not in the bottomless pit. He goes about like a roaring lion seeking who he can destroy. In the second half of the seven years, in Revelation 12:17, he makes war on the Jews, who at that time will have becomes Christians - who had not fled into the wilderness in time. Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. I think in your post, you were talking about Satan being "bound", in some theology you have. Which being bound even in that theology is not the same as being in the bottomless pit - right? The bottomless pit is figurative language for being bound or powerless. There is no literal great chain that is attached to the dragon and there is no literal pit in the earth, where the dragon keeps falling and falling for 1000 years. So to answer your question; being bound is the same as being in the bottomless pit. No different than locking a man in a dungeon and throwing away the key, or putting an ankle bracelet on his leg and confining him to his house. Both are binding. Quote The person in Revelation 11 and Revelation 13 does not become the beast before being cast into hell (with the bottomless pit nearby), but during his short time in hell. He becomes the beast by being possessed by the beast i.e. the spirit of the beast the serpent currently in the bottomless pit - while he is in hell, upon exiting hell. The bottomless pit is located as the great chasm in hell. Do you have scripture references or is this conjecture? Quote The person now in the bottomless pit, as a spirit since his body has long since decomposed, is the original serpent in the garden. Do you have any scripture reference that indicates what kind of a body Satan has? He had a body when he temped Jesus. He had a body when he visited Job. Quote Who sold out to Satan, in return for getting Adam and Eve to sin. So that beast has been in the bottomless pit, ever since the garden of Eden. Satan was not in the pit before Jesus put him there. Satan was seen all throughout the old testament by various people and not confined by any means. Quote Differently, in Revelation 17:8b, is the end times person, the little horn person, who the world will witness being killed, and come back to life. That person's soul will be in hell (adjacent t0 the bottomless pit) for a very brief period. Can you provide a scripture reference indicating he will be killed and come back to life? That is not the meaning behind the head that received a deadly wound and then was healed. Or do you have another reference in mind? The deadly wound to the head was given by Jesus who bound him in the bottomless pit. It was healed when his time was up, and he was released and went into prediction. Which is meant by the passage, when they behold the beast that: * "was" - The beast existed from the time of Daniel * "is not" - Thrown in the bottomless pit * "yet is" - Ascended out of the bottomless pit Rev 16:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggg Posted June 4, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, TMarcum said: Do you have scripture references or is this conjecture? What we have is pieces to the mystery of the scarlet colored beast (Satan) the woman was riding. Just as we have pieces to the mystery of God in Revelation 10:7 which he declared to the prophets. The pieces have to be put together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggg Posted June 4, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, TMarcum said: Do you have any scripture reference that indicates what kind of a body Satan has? He had a body when he temped Jesus. He had a body when he visited Job. We have indication of other angels that their form is like those of men. Since they existed before the creation of the earth, the type of bodies the angels have are not made from the dust of the earth like ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggg Posted June 4, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 13 minutes ago, TMarcum said: Can you provide a scripture reference indicating he will be killed and come back to life? That is not the meaning behind the head that received a deadly wound and then was healed. Or do you have another reference in mind? Yes, scriptural reference. But.... when the revealed man of sin is killed (as far as a specific day on the timeline) it cannot be pinpointed. The scriptural references: Working backwards, 1335 days (Daniel 12:11-12), to when the image of the beast, the Abomination of Desolation, is placed in the temple, works out to be on day 1185 on the timeline. So, since the person is slain, and come back to life - before that image is made of him (Revelation 13:14 ), we can deduce that the person is killed sometime before day 1185 on the timeline. But... we don't know how far before. And we don't know exactly when on the timeline the person commits the transgression of desolation. Which if you follow the red line critical path on my chart is before day 1185. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMarcum Posted June 4, 2020 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 76 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, OneLight said: I see, you are trying to tell me that I should not take scripture as it is written and when asked for proof, you redirect and request proof you are wrong. That is not how a discussion is done. The onus is on you to show me why I should not take scripture as it is written. 1) Because in order for a beast to ascend out of a bottomless pit in (Rev 11:7) and (Rev 17:8), the passage in (Rev 20:1-3) where he is put in the pit must be a recapitulation of scripture pertaining to a different period of time in history. He could not have been put in the pit, after the day of the battle of the great day of the Lord Almighty in (Rev 19:20), if he is seen coming out of the pit in (Rev 17:8) & (Rev 11:7). And then goes into perdition; having 3 more crowns when he came out of the pit, as opposed to when he went in the pit. 2) The dragon is shown out of the pit gathering kings and nations to the great day of the battle of the Lord after the FP went into perdition (Rev 16:13-14), and still seen gathering the nations in (Rev 20:8). There is only "the" battle of "that" great day of the Lord. And the way you interpret it, there are 2 great days of battles of the dragon and the Lord: one in (Rev 19) & one in (Rev 20). Now I have showed you my reason. Now it's your turn or do you not have good reason for your beliefs? Again, the questions: 1) Can you show where an/or when the Beast that ascended out of the bottomless pit (Rev 11:7 & Rev 17:8), was cast into the pit? 2) Can you show anywhere in the bible suggests there are 2 periods when the pit is occupied? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggg Posted June 4, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 31 minutes ago, TMarcum said: Which is meant by the passage, when they behold the beast that: * "was" - The beast existed from the time of Daniel * "is not" - Thrown in the bottomless pit * "yet is" - Ascended out of the bottomless pit Rev 16:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Why are you trying to link "was" at the time of Daniel ? Also where are you reading in Revelation 17:8 of anyone seeing the beast ascend out of the bottomless pit ? There are two persons involved in Revelation 17:8 1. the person who was and is not. currently in the bottomless pit. 2. the person them in Revelation 13 worship - and behold, who was, is not, yet is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted June 4, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.20 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, TMarcum said: 1) Because in order for a beast to ascend out of a bottomless pit in (Rev 11:7) and (Rev 17:8), the passage in (Rev 20:1-3) where he is put in the pit must be a recapitulation of scripture pertaining to a different period of time in history. He could not have been put in the pit, after the day of the battle of the great day of the Lord Almighty in (Rev 19:20), if he is seen coming out of the pit in (Rev 17:8) & (Rev 11:7). And then goes into perdition; having 3 more crowns when he came out of the pit, as opposed to when he went in the pit. No, it does not mean that it must be recapitulation as you claim. What do we know of the bottomless pit from the Greek, since Revelation is being used? the bottomless pit - ἄβυσσος - abyssos - G12 bottomless unbounded the abyss the pit the immeasurable depth of Orcus, a very deep gulf or chasm in the lowest parts of the earth used as the common receptacle of the dead and especially as the abode of demons Notice 3.3 where it is said to be a place where demons abode. Jesus Himself spoke of such a place. He called it Hades in Luke 16:19-31, or better seen in Luke 8:26-39 where the Legion of demons begged Jesus not to send them into the abyss. That would include the beast, or in other words, any demonic spirit. 6 minutes ago, TMarcum said: 2) The dragon is shown out of the pit gathering kings and nations to the great day of the battle of the Lord after the FP went into perdition (Rev 16:13-14), and still seen gathering the nations in (Rev 20:8). There is only "the" battle of "that" great day of the Lord. And the way you interpret it, there are 2 great days of battles of the dragon and the Lord: one in (Rev 19) & one in (Rev 20). Now I have showed you my reason. Now it's your turn or do you not have good reason for your beliefs? Again, the questions: 1) Can you show where an/or when the Beast that ascended out of the bottomless pit (Rev 11:7 & Rev 17:8), was cast into the pit? 2) Can you show anywhere in the bible suggests there are 2 periods when the pit is occupied? See my reference to the bottomless pit above. It is the abode for every demonic spirit where they enter and exit as they desire or are ordered. Notice though, only one place in scripture can be found where Satan himself is bound for 1000 years, chained and the way sealed so he could not come out until the 1000 years have passed, and that is Revelation 20:1-3. This had never happened before, so they cannot be the same. Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while. Every other time the bottomless pit is mentioned, the demonic spirits were free to exit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMarcum Posted June 4, 2020 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 76 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 hours ago, douggg said: What we have is pieces to the mystery of the scarlet colored beast (Satan) the woman was riding. Just as we have pieces to the mystery of God in Revelation 10:7 which he declared to the prophets. The pieces have to be put together. I think the mysteries of God is the salvation of God via the resurrection. When the gospel is sent into all the earth, the mystery of God is finished and the end will come (Ephesians 3:1-6) & (Colossians 1:26-29). The mystery was understood by the apostles when it was given at the day of Pentecost. It will be understood to when it is taken away and the fullness of times are fulfilled. This will only happened when God calls his children home. Regarding the pieces fitting together, they do fit: When the 6th trumpet sounded (Rev 9:13), this was the call of the saints to come out of Babylon, because God is about to pour out the 6th vial on the city (Rev 16:12-16). The 6th seal is discussed in great detail in all of (Rev 17) & (Rev 18). But in (Rev 18:4), is when the 6th trumpet was blown for the children of God to come out of Babylon. Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. But, the dragon, beast, and FP is not introduced until Rev 11:7. All of the chapters from (Rev 11 thru Rev 19) occurred as the sounding of the 7th trumpet at the end of Chapter (Rev 11:15-19). The 7 heads and 10 horns and 7 crowns belong to Satan. This is the evil trio. Just like the trio of God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In the case with God, he has supreme rule and dominion, but he gave it to Jesus Satan mimics the Godhead. The rule, power and dominion belongs to the dragon (Satan). The 7 head, 10 horns and 7 crowns belong to the dragon because he influenced the kingdoms of the beast (Babylon (550BC), The Assyrians, The Medes and Persians, Alexandria the Great, the Roman empire). But when the head was wounded, the beast was out of commission. The 6 that are now behind us are useless. There is only 1 left and that one will join with an 8th. But this is not now. It is in the future, because the beast is now inactive. When the beast of Rev 13:1 ascends, the dragon will give to it his power, seat, and authority (Rev 13:2). The same way that God gave to Jesus. But he will acquire 3 more crowns in (Rev 13:1). This is because when the dragon gave the beast his seat, power, and authority (Rev 13:2), he took upon these kingdoms. But when the 2nd beast (FP) ascended from the earth, the head with the deadly wound healed. This is why is says the beast ascended out of the pit and went into prediction (Rev 17:8) & (Rev 11:7). The dragon already gave the beast the power, seat, and authority, before the FP ever ascended out of the pit and went into perdition. The head healing was the FP ascending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMarcum Posted June 4, 2020 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 76 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, douggg said: Why are you trying to link "was" at the time of Daniel ? The 1st head of the beast was Nebuchadnezzar, and there were 5 more ending at the Roman empire, that was the "was". Quote Also where are you reading in Revelation 17:8 of anyone seeing the beast ascend out of the bottomless pit ? John saw the beast in a vision, and the angel said that beast that you saw shall ascend out of the pit Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Quote There are two persons involved in Revelation 17:8 1. the person who was and is not. currently in the bottomless pit. 2. the person them in Revelation 13 worship - and behold, who was, is not, yet is. The FP is seen in Rev 13:8 as, the 8th that is of the seven heads. Revelation 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. Edited June 4, 2020 by TMarcum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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