Are the U.S. and Trump the Ones Restraining?

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, SONshine said:

Hi, DeighAnn 

Well, let’s see now....  Aren’t the 7 seals in the Scroll?  And isn’t the Scroll the written Word of God?  

Revelation 5:1:  And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals.

In Rev. 6, Jesus is unsealing all seven seals of the the scroll, the written Word of God, by the only One found worthy in both heaven and earth, the One who prevailed at Calvary, the Lamb of God, the Living Word Himself, Jesus the Christ.

Remember that Jesus' disciples came unto Him in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 and asked Jesus to REVEAL to them the signs when all these prophecies would come to pass and He would return to establish His kingdom (the Day of the Lord).

Mark 13:4 
Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled? [5] And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:

....and then, Jesus proceeds to give them the Seven Seals and warns them again about false prophets.

Mark 13:22 
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

[23] But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

The seals are those things; they "seal up" the battle plan of the end times, and these seals are in the order of importance for spiritual and mental preparation (They are not in order).

 

Whew, thank you SO Much.  It was gone gone gone.  You Rock!!!

[Diaste]

14 hours ago, SONshine said:

@Diaste

Are you wondering if the Scroll, the 7 Seals and the Seal of God are all connected?  It seems, if I understood what you wrote above correctly, that you think they are not connected.  Maybe I misunderstood you. Anyhow, they’re absolutely connected.

I agree there are connections. I'm not sure it's more that cause and effect. If you have some evidence of a connection between the seal of God in their foreheads and the wax seals of a scroll that might be interesting.

[Diaste]

16 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I don't know.  How would God seal us other than by the knowledge of the "do not be deceived" and understand these things and ?  Isn't that what the sealed book contained?  Things that are going on that are NOT OF GOD that we as His children need to be aware of and look out for and adjust accordingly?  Maybe it is so obvious to us now, but wasn't so much before the seals were released.  IDK.   I feel like I am missing some key bit that everyone else has and takes for granted everyone knows,  but I don't.

So when we saw the sealed scroll and Jesus was victorious and able to loose the seals, then he loosed the seals and we see what comes out of the seals, the book didn't really contain those things?

The book must have contained something more, different? 

I'm saying we are seeing real events that will come to pass. You seem to be of the mind it's all spiritual.

 

16 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

If you are saying the 7th trump brings about the end of the 6th seal I 100% agree.  

The last trump is the 7th seal, 7th trump, 7th vial.  

Revelation 8:1 And when He had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.
Revelation 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.


I think this is how we get the number of the beast.   

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Revelation 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

Revelation 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

Even though it's Rev 13 that says, "Here is a call for wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and that number is 666."?

16 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Euphrates,  the line in the sand so to speak between Truth and confusion/babel/Babylon.  

I don't follow.

16 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Do you think this is happened in the garden of Eden?  
Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

No. We can't just liken prophecy to anything. Prophecy has to come to pass as written or it's not from God and it's not prophetic. 

I don't understand this idea applying prophecy willy nilly across the ages. 

We all rely on the prophecies that led to Jesus, hundreds fulfilled to perfection, we all rely on the promises of His return and eternal life, which are prophecies we don't seem to muck up and apply to that which they do not, but some will stir prophetic uttering of the future, like Revelation, into an 18 bean casserole.

Revelation is future. Matt 24 is future.

As problematic as we all find the times what's coming is going to be unlike anything we have ever seen. We need to stop diminishing this profound final act of the Most High God.

 

 

[Diaste]

36 minutes ago, SONshine said:

If you understand what the “seal of God in their foreheads” is and what the seals of the scroll contain, you’ll understand, Diaste.

How can I understand unless someone teaches me?

 I'm all ears, sincerely. 

 

[DeighAnn]

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

I don't understand this idea applying prophecy willy nilly across the ages. 

Yeah, you are right.  No willy nilly. 
I just started looking at my notes and everything had been going on for a long time 

I thought that the 'white horse' of the 1st seal is Satan kicked out of heaven.  That was the only other time I could think of him being sent.  But him coming first doesn't sit right.  Did you read what @SONshine wrote?  The seals follow as Jesus warned.  Your thoughts?

From what I understand, 
From the time Satan is told in Mark 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

until  for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

doesn't leave any  other time for this white horse to go out

 

[DeighAnn]

 

What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Revelation 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Revelation 6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

 

Matthew 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.






 

Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

 

Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Revelation 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations;

and then shall the end come.


Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
 

Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Matthew 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

Matthew 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

Matthew 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:


GODS WRATH

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.



BACK TO EXPLAINING

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

DO NOT BE DECEIVED BY ANY MAN

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.


Matthew 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.


DO  NOT  BE DECEIVED BY ANY MAN

Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.



 

Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.


WHO ARE THE STARS IN HEAVEN?
 

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
 

Luke 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth Him that sent me.

Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through Thy name.

Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Luke 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.




 

Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

Matthew 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


 

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.






 

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Genesis 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Genesis 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


DO NOT BE DECEIVED BY ANY MAN

Matthew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

DO NOT BE DECEIVED BY ANY MAN

Matthew 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

DO NOT BE DECEIVED BY ANY MAN

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Matthew 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Matthew 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Matthew 24:46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

Matthew 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

Matthew 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

Matthew 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

Matthew 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

Matthew 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

[Marathoner]

On 1/24/2021 at 10:49 AM, SONshine said:

So it’s plain you think the people of the United States don’t count.  What a dismal thought. 

You twist my words, @SONshine. Point out where the United States of America or the former president is mentioned in scripture as postulated by the OP. Seeing as how my post was a response to the OP, I'm sticking to the topic. 

Consider what you've done.  

[WilliamL]

On 1/23/2021 at 4:23 AM, Diaste said:

We already agree it's not completed.

If it's ongoing in 11:18 then it must also be ongoing in 6:17.

If it has arrived in 6:17 then it must also have arrived in 11:18.

It's makes no sense for an ongoing operation in 6:17 as wrath is looming. Likewise wrath is looming in 11:18. 

If wrath has only arrived in 11:18 then how is it wrath arrived in 6:17?

So which do we pick? Arrival? In full swing? Imminent?

In 6:18, the Wrath came in the sense of having just begun; whereas in 11:18, it  came and has been going on for quite some time (1260 days plus), but has not been completed. So the same aorist verb is applicable to both cases, but has a different import in each.

[WilliamL]

On 1/24/2021 at 6:34 AM, Chicken coop2 said:

On 6/23/2020 at 9:57 AM, WilliamL said:

Can there be any doubt that the spirit of lawlessness is now diligently working to destroy Americaʼs restraining (but waning) power against lawlessness; that is, that this spirit is subverting the governmentʼs ability to hold fast to the order of U.S. law and world law?

And that the current “he who restrains/holds fast” is the President of the United States, Donald Trump? (However incompetent to the task he may be.)

And that the Son of Perdition is waiting in the wings, preparing to step onto the stage as a deliverer during the coming time of economic and political chaos?

No

So then the next questions: Is this the time of the end of the 6th head of the Beast? and is the 7th head, who is to "continue [only] a short time" (Rev. 17:10), the U.N.-globalist deep state of kosmokratikoras?

[Diaste]

14 hours ago, WilliamL said:

In 6:18, the Wrath came in the sense of having just begun; whereas in 11:18, it  came and has been going on for quite some time (1260 days plus), but has not been completed. So the same aorist verb is applicable to both cases, but has a different import in each.

I'm not sure we should apply a present tense to a verb, the later the same verb has both past and present tense, and since it's not yet completed, the implication of future operation. 

As before the aorist is a point of view and has no tense to it neither does it relate duration. It's not like the English tenses of the idea of coming or came, or to come and does not directly translate. 

It's the moment the aorist refers to, arrival. Just then. Now. Happening from witness pov. 

I have heard many try to place a tense on the aorist since the 70's. The research shows it's an error to do so.