Gideon Posted August 17, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 17, 2020 6 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said: "Sin still runs rampant in the body of Christ. A full 30-40% of men have porn issues. I suspect it may be more. Divorce is exactly the same as it is in the world. Worldliness grips us" Are the people you mentioned really part of the body of Christ? I read that "...if any man be in Christ he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold all things are become new" 2Cor. 5:17 The point I want to make is that if God truly saves someone, they are being conformed to the image of His dear Son. The ones that you are observing may have been saved by their own will. I specifically pray for the salvation of all God's elect so His long suffering will finally come to a close and we can all go home to our Heavenly Father. God bless you. Brother, ever since the wolves entered the flock after Paul's death, the wheat and the tares grow together. The wheat does not lift the tares up in purity. The tares bring the wheat down to their level. Were the Laodecians truly the church. Absolutely. God has promised to lift up the church in the last day by waking it to righteousness. We are about to remember who we are. Shields of faith will again be raised, quenching ALL the fiery arrows of the enemy. The promises of God are about to be believed again, and multitudes will discover God's path to walking as overcomers, victorious over the world, the flesh and the devil. You mention that if someone is truly saved, they are being conformed to the image of his son. But do we actually see that happening? Why is it that in the book of Acts, men would exclaim "Behold how they love one another!" and today the world looks upon Christians as hypocrites? You are correct. We should be transformed into His image. We should be loving our God with all of our hearts. We should be bearing spiritual fruits that teatify that Jesus is living in us. We should be losing our lives so that Christ can live through us. Should. When we finally awake to the fact we are not seeing things occurring in our lives, and it bothers us till we cry out like Paul did in Romans 7, beseeching. God to fulfill what He has promised to do IN us, something wonderfully amazing is going to happen. The true church is going to awaken and BE witnesses to the world that Jesus is Lord. It is this that will trigger the great falling away. What must occur for this happen in our own lives? We must actually believe we ARE new creatures. Knowing we died when Christ died is not enough. We must arm ourselves with that truth when satan comes tempting us to sin. This truth must become our shield of faith for it is the only thing that will cause him to flee from us. Knowing that when Christ rose from the dead, we rose from the dead with Him is not enough. We have to believe it is true for us, right now, this very minute and yield ourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead. If we do not take the step He instructs us to take in Romans 6 and reckon these truths as OUR truths, our knowledge will not suffice to set us free indeed as Jesus promised us. Why do we not see this happening in the body today? Simple. In order for this to take place we have to come to the point where we truly hate our old life. All that is about to change. blessings, Gideon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted August 17, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.52 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2020 19 hours ago, choir loft said: Truer words have never been written, though many have come close to the bone. verse 4 from the quote above is most apropos to the discussion - "They are impudent and hardhearted children" The time has come when they will not endure sound doctrine. - 1 Timothy 4:3a Reasons for this state of affairs are legion, though I've tried to list a few from time to time. Paradigm shifts in the progress of history have occurred several times in recent decades. In centuries past only one such shift in a lifetime was sufficient to alter the course of history, but in the past seventy years there have been many. All of them have led to an irrevocable alteration in the direction and destiny of the American nation as well as all mankind. The world as a whole is on a collision course with something none of us would want to arrive. The Bible refers to it as THE DAY OF THE LORD and warns that it will be a terrible time. Modern false prophets have assembled a patch work interpretation so as to lull God's people into a false stupor and sense of contentment. To paraphrase Ray Bradbury, an author of note, something wicked is coming our way. There are those who stand upon the wall and call out danger to others. but the others don't want to hear the bad news .... the others don't want to REPENT of their SINs and wickedness. They expect God to answer their prayers even as they put their hands upon every filthy thing they desire. He won't hear and He won't listen. (Ezekiel 8:18 - 1 Samuel 4:21) Look..........the day has already arrived. It is time to REPENT - to the bone if needs be - to REPENT that's me, hollering from the choir loft... By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes! It was originally a quote from Shakespeare's Macbeth; but it is very appropriate and I've quoted this line, at home, within the last few days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choir loft Posted August 17, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,221 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 335 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/23/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/10/1947 Share Posted August 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, David1701 said: By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes! It was originally a quote from Shakespeare's Macbeth; but it is very appropriate and I've quoted this line, at home, within the last few days! I quoted Ray Bradbury's short story title SOMETHING WICKED THIS WAY COMES. I was unaware of its earlier use in English literature. Thanks for the info. CL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted August 17, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.52 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, choir loft said: I quoted Ray Bradbury's short story title SOMETHING WICKED THIS WAY COMES. I know, I've seen the film (I can't remember if I read the short story, when I was young). Quote I was unaware of its earlier use in English literature. Thanks for the info. CL You're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choir loft Posted August 17, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,221 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 335 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/23/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/10/1947 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, Gideon said: It has dawned upon me only recently that if one is content in their salvation yet possessing no real hunger and thirst for righteousness, Laodecian lukewarmness is in full bloom. Is it not those who love the light who come to it? Did we come to Jesus just to get out of having to pay the price for our sins or to be free from the power of it? Grace has been twisted in this late hour to promise life to men who have no desire to actually see self crucified. Do we love the light? Do we want Him to reign over us, transforming us into His image, as the master potter? Or, do we want to simply avoid paying the piper by claiming His righteousness as our possession without us being His possession? We are all entering the final valley of decision. Here we all, every single one of us will have to finally choose.... do we want light or darkness, the god of this world or the God of the universe, self to rule or Him to rule in us, old natures or new natures. We have been taught we can have both, saved and yet still living with sin and self rule. But the word of God is clear. it is those who love the light who come to it. Our calling is to make the tree good. This is not an attempt to tell people to earn their salvation by being good. We cannot. Without Him, we can do nothing. But.... we CAN choose. And soon, we MUST choose. Our choice to be good trees, fully light, initiates the process. His job then is to fill the good tree with good fruit. It is time we counted the cost of following Him. What is the cost? Giving up all rights to ur lives. We have forgotten.... or never truly been taught.... that He owns us. He has bought us with a price. A warning must go out. Our choice must be made. Each one of us will be faced with choosing self and sin and darkness which go hand in hand with our old nature, or we will choose goodness, light and righteousness which comes from putting on our new nature. This has nothing to do with ability. God must do the changing. But He will change us only if we ask Him to. Far too many have become content in their Romans 7 Christianity, using Paul's words as their excuse for compromise. They do not understand. Romans 7 is Paul's declaration of hunger and intent. He refused to accept his captivity to darkness, to sin, to self ruling the roost. He cried out to the deliverer of hungry souls to deliver him.... and God did, just as He will for any determined to flee darkness, no matter how big, no matter how small A fork in the road is coming... and fast. Do we want light to reign in us, no matter the cost to us personally? If our free will is constantly refusing to take the way of escape hen we fall into temptation, are we willing to lay even our free will, our most prized possession, on the alter and ask God to give us brand new wills that WILL choose light? He has promised to do just that.... cause us to obey Him. How amazing is our God! He just asks one thing of us. Do we want it? The answer we give will determine EVERYTHING. Choose life. blessings, Gideon In the post-protestant churches of the twenty-first century, references to the church of Laodicea are usually coupled with petitions for donations, tithing and extra offerings. They are seldom employed to remind congregations of the need to REPENT, which is the original Biblical intent. When was the last time the reader participated in a sermon or Sunday school series of lessons on REPENTANCE? In the 1960's we began to hear Laodicean warnings, but at that time they were focused upon spiritual development. Today, with many congregations in deep financial stress, the message is coupled with fund raising rather than spiritual growth. Hence the almost constant petitions for tithing pledging and fund raising rather than spiritual and intellectual growth. Our religious leaders are more concerned with maintaining their franchises's level of indebtedness (*) than in developing the spiritual qualities of individual disciples of the Lord. Today the church is Ichabod (1 Samuel 4:21 "the spirit has departed"). We are light years beyond warnings about Laodicea. We have fallen further than the risk to Laodicea. Consider the words of the passage in Revelation mentioning the letters to the seven churches. Each church was administered by an angel or spirit. The warnings given to Laodicea were to its angel/spirit rather than the congregation. The specific warning to the angel/spirit of Laodicea was that it would be removed from its duties if it didn't get with the program. The Lord promised to eject the angel/spirit and take a personal hand in the matter. Today the post-protestant church has generally rejected the ministrations of the Holy Spirit itself. Consequently the Holy Spirit has departed from our churches - leaving them rudderless and without divine guidance. As a consequence we now inherit the leadership of those who do not promote the gospel of Jesus Christ. They promote their own gospel, which is generally politically correct. Jesus was NEVER politically correct. Those that believe otherwise never read the gospels. Jesus was NEVER a humble respecter of men or institutions. Jesus NEVER vindicated the works of man. He ALWAYS vindicated the Kingdom of God. Consider the difference between Laodicea and Ichabod if you dare. Consider REPENTANCE. that's me, hollering from the choir loft... (*) Statistics gathered about church mismanagement of funds has shown that the average congregation owes between three and four million dollars of debt. There are rare exceptions to be sure, but in most cases the level of debt is beyond the capability of the finance committee to manage. When attendance dwindles, the ability of these religious franchises cannot meet payments. They risk financial ruin, hence the call for more money - the focus on issues for fund raising instead of spiritual enlightenment. Edited August 17, 2020 by choir loft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted August 17, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 17, 2020 Just now, Walter Goraj jr said: The "true church" as you mentioned is the assembly of those whose names are written in heaven. In other words God saved these people - they didn't save themselves. That's the difference between the Hypocrites that you see and the true believers. When you say this in that is happening in the "church" with divorce and whatever that's not pertaining to the elect of God. So brother everything is fine because God knows who his people are and once they are all saved the end comes. If what you were saying were true, why would they have to be awakened? God addressed the Laodecians as His church. Were they walking in holiness? God has told us that if we abide in Him, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Ge has promised that if we will hold up our shields of faith, we will quench ALL the fiery arrows of the enemy. Do we see that happening today? Do men in the world stand in amazement declaring "Behold how they love one another!"? Bo brother, it is the true church that needs awakening. A watchman' purpose is to warn the people inside the city walls. Watchmen are not for the world, but for the church. As long as we think it pertains to someone else and not us, we will not cry out for Him to transform us and rescue us from US. Repentance is only viable if it is personal. May God open our eyes to our great need. Until believers tire of their failures, their many compromises, their own little secret sins, their lukewarmness towards the fact that many even in their own families are headed to hell and they simply are unmoved in their hearts, we will see no revival of the bride. We are far, far from being ready. We think because we have been given the righteousness of God, all is well. As the Laodecians put it.... "We have need of nothing!" Do we not know that pure seed of Christ planted within us is supposed to grow inside us, bearing fruits for others to see? Is this not how true evangelism is supposed to work? Have we forgotten that to whom much is given, much is required? Until we examine our own hearts and assume it is others who must be awakened, we avoid the conviction of the Spirit upon our own lives. That must change. That will change. The only question is..... will we listen and fall on our knees or be satisfied with making Heaven yet with no desire to actually live wholly for Him? blessings, Gideon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted August 19, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Walter Goraj jr said: I don't know maybe I'm not making my point properly. True believers are "quickened" or made alive in Christ (Eph. 2:1). Any warnings or awkenings come from God to that individual. Now of course as brothers and sisters edify one another we talk about Heavenly things, the things to come,what's going on now Etc. In other words the "watchman" is now inside of us. Those who are being warned of the judgment to come may also be in churches since the physical church is a mixture of saved and unsaved people (even if they "made a decision for Christ"). And so it is with the church of laodicea. "He that overcometh" refers to those out of the congregations who m God had ordained to eternal life. All the wicked stuff is coming from the tares. If that were the case, and there is no need for watchmen, then why have preachers and teachers? They have the Holy Spirit inside them, leading them to all truth, right? God has ordained men to lead the saints to walking in the FREE INDEED Jesus promised us. But those men themselves must first be walking there, with lives lived as examples to the flock demonstrating how sure and rich His promises are. Do you think it is just the lost deceived religious tares and not Christians in the church who are doing "that wicked stuff"? The word given to Laodecia was given to the church, not to those outside of it. We so want to squirm out of any conviction of wrongdoing, thinking that because we have grace, we have need of nothing. This is the very sin laid at the feet of Laodecia. But true grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts. It's purpose is to lead us..... to cause us... to live lives worthy of our calling, in holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our lives. Is it only unsaved deceived people in church who are living materialistic lives or who are bound by secret sexual lusts driven by one click of a button on our computers? The sin, dear brother, is in the church, in His children. Multitudes of saved people are 'healed, but only slightly', with no hunger for heart purity or holiness. Most do not even think it possible, so why sweat it? We cannot put off the shallowness of the church on lost people who have infiltrated our ranks. We should be lifting them up to our standard, but instead, they have brought us down to theirs. It is time we took the conviction of God to heart, and admitted our shallowness and secret little sins, sins we have no desire to part with. God can and will heal us, but we must want it more than our next breath. Self must climb off the throne of our lives. In these upcoming final days, each one of us will make our choice.... THE choice.... as to who we will serve. Obedience to self and sin or obedience to righteousness. No, we cannot do it. BUT.... we can want it. So..... do we? God is fully able to deliver us from the power of sin and from the grip of our old nature, but until we long for it, until we see ourselves as wretched men, bringing shame to the name of our God by our compromise and lack of hunger for more, we will continue to draw near Him with our lips, but with our hearts far from Him. blessings, Gids 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted August 19, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,338 Content Per Day: 7.99 Reputation: 21,537 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted August 19, 2020 The one thing I know ‘IS’ Christ the only One Who attained sinless perfection through life here... the rest are fighting toward that goal but realize they have not arrived nor can they thus the dependence will be upon Jesus’ to arrive at such... it is love for Him placed within us by The Holy Spirit that drives us to try... Philippians 3:8-14 (KJV) [8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, [9] And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: [10] That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [11] If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. [12] Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. [13] Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, [14] I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted August 19, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 22 minutes ago, enoob57 said: The one thing I know ‘IS’ Christ the only One Who attained sinless perfection through life here... the rest are fighting toward that goal but realize they have not arrived Philippians 3:8-14 (KJV) [8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, [9] And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: [10] That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [11] If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. [12] Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. [13] Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, [14] I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Who is talking sinless perfection? I am talking being kept from falling by the power of God through faith. There is a huge difference. If Christ is in us, not just with us, but IN us, and we abide in Him, we are promised that we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. These are His words to us, not mine. Can God keep us? Can He deliver us from evil? This is not about our abilities but about His. We must be careful that we go not gut the entire promises of God by simply concluding hat since no one is perfect, then sin will never be escaped. Not sinning is not perfection. It is simply now a blank canvas where God can then begin to paint His image upon us. Unbelief lurks, always trying to get us to limit what God can do for us, in us, despite what He has clearly promised to do for us. It is the root of all of our other sins. We have been made new creatures, but until we believe that with more than our heads, and reckon that the old us really is dead, not slowly never dying, and yield ourselves as those who are alive from the dead, we will continue to walk as old natured people, ruled by lusts and self will. What is lacking in us is a burning desire to be freed from our carnal nature, not positionally, which is simply head knowledge, but practically, where we and others can see it and rejoice. We have become content to be forgiven, yet remain carnal, ruled still by our free will, choosing when we want to sin and when we want to be good. And it is here that change must occur if there is any hope of us leading others to the Lord. This is how evangelism is to work. "The heathen will know that I am the Lord, when I shall be sanctified IN YOU before their very eyes." Ezekiel 36:23 blessings, Enoob Gids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted August 19, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,338 Content Per Day: 7.99 Reputation: 21,537 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted August 19, 2020 I added that before I read your reply... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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