HAZARD Posted August 20, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 6,830 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 3,570 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2020 (edited) The question of the omniscience of God is much understood. The Bible makes many simple statements that limits God's knowledge. There would be no sense to these many passages if we do not believe them literally. There also is no meaning to them if we make or take the figuratively. There was no object in God saying such things about Himself if they were UNTRUE. God gets to know things concerning the free moral actions of man as others do (Gen. 6:5-7; 11:5-7; 18: 21; 22:12; 2 Chron. 16:9; Zech. 4:10; Job 12:22; 24:23; Ps. 7:9; 44:21; Ps. 139:1-6; Prov. 21:12; Jer. 17:10; Ezek. 11:5; Romans 8:27; 1 Thess. 2:4). God sends messengers throughout the Earth who report to Him of all that they find in the Earth that goes on (Dan. 10:13-21; 11;1; 12:1; Zech.1:7-11; 6:1-8; Matt. 18:10-11; Heb. 2:4). God does not take care of every detail of His vast business in all the kingdoms of the universe. His agents help Him and they are found in every part of the universe on missions for God. Certain angels are responsible to God for carrying out His will in almost infinite detail conserning the billions of suns, moons, planets and all free moral agents on them. God does not personally do everything that is done in all acts and events, nor has He known, elected, chosen, or predestinated all the acts and events from all eternity past. Several times, God Himself said of certain events that they did not come into His mind (Jer. 19:5; 32:35; 44:21). God said that He did not know beforehand that men would become so wicked (Gen. 6:5-7); that man would plan Babel (Gen. 11:5-7); that Sodom would be so wicked (Gen. 18:21, 26, 28-32); that Abraham would actually proceed to offer up Isaac (Gen. 22:12). God did not know whether it would take one or two or three signs to make Israel believe in Him (Ex. 4:1-12), or whether testing Israel would cause them to obey Him or not (Dt. 8:2, 16). God did not know that Israel would backslide as far as she did (Dt. 32:19-29; Isa. 59:15-19). God says He searches to find men whom He can bless (2 Chr. 16:9). He DISCOVERS DEEP THINGS (Job 12:22); tries the hearts and reigns of men so that HE MAY KNOW THEM (Ps. 7:9; 44:21; 139:1-6, 23-24; Jer. 17:10; 1 Chron. 28:9; Rom. 8:27; 1 Cor. 2;10; Rev. 2:23). There is not one statement in the entire Bible saying God knows or even would like to know all acts and particular events of all vast creations of free moral agents from all eternity past; or that He has fixed decrees choosing and pre-destinating all thoughts, acts, and deeds of free wills from all eternity past to all eternity future. God's eternal plan for man is known from beginning to end and what God plans to bring to past He has the power to do, but concerning the free will actions of free moral agents He does not know from all eternity what they will do before they are in existence and are here to have a part in His plan. He does not know which ones will be saved and which ones will be lost. He has made a plan for all to be saved alike and all who conform to His plan are blessed with the predestinated blessings. Those who willfully rebel will be cursed with the predestinated punishments according to His plan. It is His plan that is known from beginning to the end, not the individual conformity to it by free moral agents. It is left up to each person to choose his own destiny. God wills all men to be saved but if man does not choose to be saved that is his responsibility (1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Pet. 3:9; John 3:16; Rev. 22;17). Psalm 139:1 "To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me." The searching God. What is the object of searching man to know him if this is already an automatic knowledge of God from eternity past, even billions of years before man came into existence? God is asked to search the heart and try it to see if there is any wicked thing in it (Ps.139:23-24). In Jer. 17:10, God Himself claims that He searches the heart and tries it to give every man justice according to what He finds; Jer. 17:10, "I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings." In Isa.46:10,Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: Edited August 20, 2020 by HAZARD correct spelling error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted August 21, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2020 Just because God has messengers, angels, servants, etc that carry out his task...does not mean God isn't omniscient. If there is only one true God and he created all things both visible and invisible then its not beyond reason to say he is also all knowing and all powerful. He said of himself in his word he knows the end from the beginning. If your the beginning and the end of all things that means you know everything in between as well. I find this a pointless argument. So what is your point in saying God is limited in knowledge other than to belittle the Creator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted August 21, 2020 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 249 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 7,139 Content Per Day: 3.29 Reputation: 5,050 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted August 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jedi4Yahweh said: Just because God has messengers, angels, servants, etc that carry out his task...does not mean God isn't omniscient. If there is only one true God and he created all things both visible and invisible then its not beyond reason to say he is also all knowing and all powerful. He said of himself in his word he knows the end from the beginning. If your the beginning and the end of all things that means you know everything in between as well. I find this a pointless argument. So what is your point in saying God is limited in knowledge other than to belittle the Creator? Hi @Jedi4Yahweh I presume you are responding to the recent post @HAZARD The gist of it is that God delegates and commissions as He sees fit. Of course God always knows all that is possible to know, if He didn't He wouldn't be God, but He also chooses how He will interact with His Creation, sometimes asking questions He knows the answers to etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted August 21, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Michael37 said: Hi @Jedi4Yahweh I presume you are responding to the recent post @HAZARD The gist of it is that God delegates and commissions as He sees fit. Of course God always knows all that is possible to know, if He didn't He wouldn't be God, but He also chooses how He will interact with His Creation, sometimes asking questions He knows the answers to etc. So there you go, you said it. God is omniscient! I would agree it does seem at times that God does not act omnisicent from out perspective. Example why did God need to go visit Sodom and Gomorrah to verify its wickedness to determine its judgement if God is all knowing? God already knew that outcome. The bibles says not single sparrow falls to the ground with out his knowledge and he has numbered every single hair on your head. He is not lacking any knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAZARD Posted August 21, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 6,830 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 3,570 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jedi4Yahweh said: So there you go, you said it. God is omniscient! I would agree it does seem at times that God does not act omnisicent from out perspective. Example why did God need to go visit Sodom and Gomorrah to verify its wickedness to determine its judgement if God is all knowing? God already knew that outcome. The bibles says not single sparrow falls to the ground with out his knowledge and he has numbered every single hair on your head. He is not lacking any knowledge. Gen. 18:21, I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. Gen 18:23-24, And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? 24, Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? Gen. 18: 26, And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes. Abraham asked several time what if, and God kept replying, If I find. All God had to say when first asked, Abraham, I know there are no righteous there at all! Instead, God said he would go there himself to see if it was as He was told. So He must not have known. God never talks in riddles. Edited August 21, 2020 by HAZARD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0scar Posted August 29, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 70 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/11/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/12/1955 Author Share Posted August 29, 2020 You all have posted many verses describing how unlimites is the knowledge God HAS No one said that God IS omniscient. any how... do you have same kind of verses refering to Jesus? Do you have any verses, one at least, saying that Jesus is omniscient or has unlimited knowledge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leah777 Posted August 29, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,393 Content Per Day: 0.70 Reputation: 1,156 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/09/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 29, 2020 38 minutes ago, 0scar said: You all have posted many verses describing how unlimites is the knowledge God HAS No one said that God IS omniscient. any how... do you have same kind of verses refering to Jesus? Do you have any verses, one at least, saying that Jesus is omniscient or has unlimited knowledge? Jesus is God Father, Son, Holy Spirit is all God. Jesus was there at the Beginning (john 1 v 1) and will always be there. He knows all things. He is God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted August 29, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 29, 2020 46 minutes ago, 0scar said: You all have posted many verses describing how unlimites is the knowledge God HAS No one said that God IS omniscient. any how... do you have same kind of verses refering to Jesus? Do you have any verses, one at least, saying that Jesus is omniscient or has unlimited knowledge? Your failing to see that Jesus/Yahshua is God. He created all things both visible and invisible, he is God(Col 1:15,16). Gen 1: 1 says that God created all things, yet other scriptures say that Jesus created all things (John 1:1-3, Heb 1:2, 1 Cor 8:6). The God that created all things is Jesus. So, with that understanding if God is omniscient then that means Jesus is omniscient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0scar Posted September 1, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 70 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/11/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/12/1955 Author Share Posted September 1, 2020 On 8/29/2020 at 5:55 PM, leah777 said: Jesus is God Father, Son, Holy Spirit is all God. Jesus was there at the Beginning (john 1 v 1) and will always be there. He knows all things. He is God. That is you personal opinion Can you support it with biblical texts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0scar Posted September 4, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 70 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/11/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/12/1955 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 On 8/29/2020 at 6:15 PM, Jedi4Yahweh said: Your failing to see that Jesus/Yahshua is God. He created all things both visible and invisible, he is God(Col 1:15,16). Gen 1: 1 says that God created all things, yet other scriptures say that Jesus created all things (John 1:1-3, Heb 1:2, 1 Cor 8:6). The God that created all things is Jesus. So, with that understanding if God is omniscient then that means Jesus is omniscient. You fail in understanding the Christ did experienced the Kenosis - that is a total emptying of himself - in order to encarnate as Jesus Do you have any verse saying that Jesus is omniscient? No, offcourse you will fail on that too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts