Marathoner Posted August 7, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,312 Content Per Day: 7.11 Reputation: 13,343 Days Won: 99 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2020 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Josheb said: You're in agreement with his words, but how about his practice? One's practice cannot be discerned by words alone, @Josheb. Edited August 7, 2020 by Marathoner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted August 7, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.48 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted August 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, Marathoner said: One's practice cannot be discerned by words, @Josheb. Of course it can. Either directly or by inference. Assuming of course, that we say wheat we mean and mean what we say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted August 7, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,312 Content Per Day: 7.11 Reputation: 13,343 Days Won: 99 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2020 Just now, Alive said: Of course it can. Either directly or by inference. The direct manner is the only way, friend. Inferences are subject to error, don't you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted August 7, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 7, 2020 4 hours ago, David1701 said: Yes, of course I have. Heb. 4:1-3 (KJV) 1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. The preaching of the gospel does not benefit those who do not believe it. They remain unsaved and under God's condemnation. What relevance is this supposed to have, for those who are already saved? Everyone who has been born of God is an overcomer (as I've already proved); therefore, everyone who does not overcome, has not been born of God and is still unsaved, no matter how religious he might be. The epistles are one means (not the only one) that God uses, by the Holy Spirit, to produce that overcoming in our lives. Everyone who has been born again, walks in the benefit of that truth (some more, some less; but all are characterised by being overcomers). I urge you, Gideon, to recognise the difference between those who are born again, and those who are merely religious. EVERYONE who has been born again is an overcomer and walks with God. It is real for all of us. Of course, there is always room for improvement (it's called sanctification and it takes a lifetime); but don't suggest that born again Christians are not overcomers, because that would be a lie. The more intensely we seek God, to become like Jesus and to please him; the more we spend time in his presence and in reading the Bible, the more we are sanctified and the more fruit we bear. I think most, or all, of us know this, Gideon. This is an interesting post with lots to discuss. Would it first be possible for us to agree on what walking as an overcomer looks like? Can you define for me how you think it looks? Then, once we get on the same page wording-wise, we can dig into what you shared, and I see some opportunities for some great dialogue. Thanks David. blessings, Gideon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted August 7, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.48 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted August 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Gideon said: This is an interesting post with lots to discuss. Would it first be possible for us to agree on what walking as an overcomer looks like? Can you define for me how you think it looks? Then, once we get on the same page wording-wise, we can dig into what you shared, and I see some opportunities for some great dialogue. Thanks David. blessings, Gideon Gideon--could you also clarify who the 'we' is when you write? This will also help much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted August 7, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,312 Content Per Day: 7.11 Reputation: 13,343 Days Won: 99 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2020 Inference can become a stumbling stone of offense when evil is presumed of another. I strive to refrain from presuming evil of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted August 7, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.52 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, Gideon said: This is an interesting post with lots to discuss. Would it first be possible for us to agree on what walking as an overcomer looks like? Can you define for me how you think it looks? Then, once we get on the same page wording-wise, we can dig into what you shared, and I see some opportunities for some great dialogue. Thanks David. blessings, Gideon Walking as an overcomer means that your life is characterised by faith in the Lord that works by love; and your faith results in good works. I would also appreciate it, if you would answer my other recent post to you. Here it is again, in case you missed it. I'd like to clear something up, Gideon. Yes, or no answers will suffice, unless you feel the need to qualify the answer. 1) Do you believe that the Calvinism vs Arminianism debate is something intended to conceal, confuse or obscure? 2) Do you believe that such discussions are from the devil? What you posted is worded so that the answers are "Yes." and "Yes."; but I'd like to know if that's really what you meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted August 7, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.52 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2020 53 minutes ago, Josheb said: lol! No, the risk existed whether answering or not because now I get to highlight the facts 1) the simplest of valid op-relevant inquiries are avoided and 2) the plainest attempts to return to the op and begin collaboration anew are also avoided by many in this forum. This up, according to the actual observable content in the op is overall about our need to be diligent, bear fruit, and examine ourselves. I've posted an affirmation of that position in almost every post. Not only have I affirmed the need for diligence, fruit-bearing, and examination but I've posted scriptures and added commentary to that fact. I even agreed with you and helped clarify some worthy op-relevant points. I said I moved on and I meant it and I provided the opportunity for you an I to begin anew by agreeing what the op is about. But I guess even that can be done. Or can it? You want to give it another try? What is the op about? Based on what the OP says, it is about: 1) The Calvinism vs Arminianism debate being a smokescreen from the devil 2) Being diligent to make our calling and election sure 3) Bewaring of grabbing doctrines to assure us of our salvation 4) Diligence being an important part of our assurance of salvation 5) Examining ourselves to see whether or not we are in the faith 6) Learning how to abide in Christ 7) Making a distinction between believing on the Lord and believing in him 8) What to do, if we don't see the mark of Jesus on our thoughts and deeds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branchesofHim Posted August 7, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 211 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,463 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 759 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/09/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/23/1966 Share Posted August 7, 2020 On 8/1/2020 at 7:31 AM, Gideon said: The whole topic of Calvinism vs. Armenianism is, I believe, ultimately a smokescreen from the enemy. We are, by the authority of God's Word, to give all diligence to make our calling and election sure. We must beware grabbing hold of a doctrine to convince us of our salvation. Our assurance is meant to come from God Himself. Is that not wonderful? Our calling is not a call to get our doctrine right on who is saved and who is not. The point of this is ultimately a call to each individual believer to make sure THEY are saved, by God's hand unmistakenly seen in their lives, as He assures us Himself that we are His sons or daughters. Calvinism, Armenianism, Lutherism, Satanism, ..... whatever the ism may be is pointless and irrelevant to "canonized" scripture ....... Shalom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted August 7, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Josheb said: The evidence proves otherwise. There are several subsequent posts here that having nothing to do with the opening statement and none of them have been engaged. NONE of them. I agree. They have not. You have taken offense when none was meant. I explained that. You still demand a retraction, as opposed to letting it go. I have shared again the gist of my original post, and you have remained silent on that, ignoring it and instead still concentrating on perceiving an insult when none was meant. What do I believe about the Calvin vs the Arminian debate? I do believe that multitudes have debated back and forth on who is called, who is not, instead of seeking God for the assurance that comes from Him. How is that assurance given? How do we KNOW we have passed from death to life? By the fruits that such abiding promises to bring forth. "And hereby we know that we know Him: if we keep His commandments. He that saith, “I know Him,” and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3-4 Now this immediately puts us on edge, feeling we are being pulled backwards into legalism. But that is not the case at all. If God has promised that under His new covenant that He will cause us to walk in obedience, and He has (Ezekiel 36), then our obedience is not a result of our strenuous efforts to earn or keep our salvation, but simply God doing what He promised He would do in us amen? If a man or woman is walking with the Lord, obedience will follow. Fruits will follow. This brings me back to the gist of my OP. If we are finding this is not the case in our walk with the Lord,, if obedience lacking in our lives, if we have but few fruits to show after walking in the Lord for even many years, something is wrong. We are forced to try to assure ourselves doctrinally that we are saved, even when our lives are not testifying to God dwelling in us. We can read that there is no condemnation, but how many saints battle feeling condemnation every single day. Our solution? Read the scripture again. There is a better way. There is an answer to all this, but how few want to seek it. Many would rather tussle over scriptures and have endless unprofitable arguments, rather than admit that God promises we will overcome darkness in our lives because we have been made light, and that if we are not overcoming darkness, a piece of our puzzle is missing. Thank God a change is coming. I understand that if whatI am sharing is the truth. it is not a pleasant place to find oneself. For some who have served the Lord for years, it is a hard thing to admit they are missing something, and the something is BIG. I get it. But...... when a man or woman gets desperate to truly walk in holiness as an overcomer, victorious over the world, the flesh snd the devil, and realizes as well that they simply cannot do it in their current circumstances, they are finally ready to receive from God the power to walk as the new creatures they already are. Being right as to calvinism or arminianism does nothing to help one walk in victory. God must live inside us as new creatures, causing us to obey, for us to see that accomplished. We are told that for two to walk together they must be agreed. Is it not time we finally agreed with God that we ARE new creatures? And if that is true, satan has no more authority over us. He has no hook into us any longer. We are finally and forever hooked to God. And when we "make our tree good" by our declaration of faith that the old us truly did die, and that since we are no longer in the flesh, we owe it NOTHING, joy, peace and the full assurance of faith will flood our souls. blessings, dear brother Gideon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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