Are there any verses that DONT FIT in the 2nd Advent

[DeighAnn]

7 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

YOU SAY:  In one coming He is coming FOR His saints, while in the other, He is coming WITH His saints.
Actually, Paul said it.  1 thes. 4 shows He is coming FOR His saints....that would be FOR His "resurrected saints." The dead in Christ have been with him since they died in Christ. But they are not complete: they are without bodies. Jesus will certainly bring them with Him to meet with their new resurrection bodies, so they will be complete once again.  And for those who are alive and in Christ who are caught up, they are changed into resurrection bodies.  It will be the day of Resurrection for the church - but ONLY for the church at that time. 

I will agree, Christ will come WITH the dead in Christ saints, [their spirit and soul only] but that so they can join with their resurrection bodies that will fly up out of the graves. When He comes for Armageddon He will come WITH His saints, Old Testament saints, New Testament saints, ALL with resurrection bodies. 

No, you did.  If Paul did it would be simple to just give me Chapter and verse.  



THEY ARE WITHOUT BODIES????   HOW IS IT THE RICH MAN SAW LAZARUS IN THE BOSOM OF ABRAHAM???

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

1 Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

1 Corinthians 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

YOU SAY:  In one coming He is coming FOR His saints, while in the other, He is coming WITH His saints.

YOU SAY :   In one coming He is preparing for a marriage; (would that be after the war in heaven or before?)
Please let me know which verses you are using for "this" pre trib  marriage.  

YOU say:  In one coming the timing is when people are saying peace and safety - a day just like today: in the other coming the world will be in shock


You believe that people of the world are saying peace and safety TODAY?  REALLY?  
And why will the WORLD be in shock?  Because HE comes as a thief, UNEXPECTEDLY,  TO THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW.  


To us, who have put on the gospel armor, He does NOT come as a thief.  We have remained in the field working.  We have not suffered our house to be broken into.  We have not allowed ourselves to be taken in by the lies and deception.  We were not deceived by any man.  We have been watching and warning as we are instructed to do, as a watchman does.  We have stood, overcome and endured to the end.  We know what time it is.  We know the season.   


BUT does anyone know the day and hour?  NO  But the time and season YES

Even as close as we are, still not a hint of when that hour is.  Just like we were told we would not know.  

YOU SAY :   In one coming He is preparing for a marriage; (would that be after the war in heaven or before?)

The rapture will be pretrib. What does that mean? It means before the "tribulation." But what does THAT mean? It means, before any part of the future 70th week of Daniel. 

WHERE in Revelation is the 70th week detailed for us?  The 7th seal - - -> the 7th trumpet - - >the 7th vial.

WHERE in Revelation is God's wrath poured out?   The 7th seal - - -> the 7th trumpet - - >the 7th vial.

Where in Revelation will be the rapture of the church?  John did not see the rapture, but saw the raptured church: The great crowd too large to number in chapter 7. Note very carefully: the great crowd is seen in heaven BEFORE the 7th seal starts the 70th week.

In other words, Paul and John together show us a pretrib rapture of the church.  Paul tells us the rapture will come JUST before wrath, as the trigger for wrath: so the rapture will take place a moment before the 6th seal start of the wrath of God. 

Note: the war in heaven will come following the 7th trumpet that marks the midpoint: so the rapture will be over 3.5 years before the war. 

The actual marriage ceremony and then supper will take place IN HEAVEN just before Christ's coming to Armageddon, as shown clearly in Rev. 19.

Please let me know which verses you are using for "this" pre trib  marriage.  
 The marriage will not be pretrib: but the gathering FOR the marriage will certainly be pretrib. The church will be removed from wrath and will be waiting in heaven for the marriage.  Note carefully, it will be impossible for any kind of posttrib rapture for then all the church would miss the marriage. the church is already  there in heaven in the first verses of chapter 19. And by the time Jesus descends from heaven, the marriage is OVER. 

We have been looking at the scriptures: 1 Thes. 4 & 5. And the actual marriage in Rev. 19. 

You believe that people of the world are saying peace and safety TODAY?  REALLY?    I have heard people say that those words are written on the UN building. I have not verified it. So, YES, today. Most of the world is not in real war today. And those where there IS conflict are seeking peace. 

And why will the WORLD be in shock?   Simple: 7 trumpet judgments followed after a while by the 7 vials and plagues of God's wrath. They will be in shock BEFORE Christ comes as lightning. 

Make no mistake: He is coming TWICE MORE: and both times He will come as a thief: UNEXPECTED: at a time when few will be thinking of His coming.  For the pretrib rapture coming, He will come UNEXPECTEDLY, and suddenly have the world population will suddenly disappear, leaving the world in SHOCK. 

But 7 years later, the world will be in WORSE SHOCK after the vials and plagues: and He will come again SUDDENLY in flaming fire. 

I must add, for those that believe they will see the Beast first - deception has already taken place. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by iamlamad

[DeighAnn]

1 minute ago, DeighAnn said:

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


And that "AT THE LAST TRUMP" IS A VERY VERY SPECIFIC TRUMP - LIKE THE TRUMP OF GOD 

[iamlamad]

Just now, DeighAnn said:

No, you did.  If Paul did it would be simple to just give me Chapter and verse.  



THEY ARE WITHOUT BODIES????   HOW IS IT THE RICH MAN SAW LAZARUS IN THE BOSOM OF ABRAHAM???

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

1 Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

1 Corinthians 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

How old are you? And you still don't know that dead bodies are BURIED? Have you never been to the cemetery when they lower the casket? 

HOW IS IT THE RICH MAN SAW LAZARUS IN THE BOSOM OF ABRAHAM???  So simple: SPIRITS are visible to other SPIRITS. 

it is raised in incorruption:  As I have said, the body-less saints come with Jesus to JOIN with their new, resurrection body.

we shall be changed.   We that are alive get "changed. The Dead in Christ will come from heaven to JOIN with their resurrection body that is changed as the Holy Spirit raises it from the grave. I hope you understand, the dead in Christ will get their OLD BODY back; but it will be changed into a resurrection body.  How is it you don't already know these things?

[DeighAnn]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

The rapture will be pretrib.

This is not found in Gods WORD.  If it was you would have shown it by now.  It wouldn't be about what you think, or what you can piece together, or this harvest MEANS  or this week MEANS. 

Does it give you any pause AT ALL

THAT JESUS NEVER MENTIONS IT?  

Does it give you any pause AT ALL 

THAT PAUL TELLS US THERE IS TO BE NO GATHERING UNTIL AFTER?

WOULD PAULS WRITINGS HAVE ever been SO BLUNT AND TO THE POINT if there was a possibility of A PRE TRIB RAP WHICH REQUIRES "A GATHERING"?  



 

[iamlamad]

1 minute ago, DeighAnn said:

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

And that "AT THE LAST TRUMP" IS A VERY VERY SPECIFIC TRUMP - LIKE THE TRUMP OF GOD 

Some incorrectly guess it is the last trumpet of the 7 trumpets in Revelation. They are mistaken. It will probably be the last trumpet at some years FEAST of Trumpets feast, but it will CERTAINLY be the "last" trumpet of the church age.  Yes, I believe Jesus Himself will sound this "last trump."

[iamlamad]

Just now, DeighAnn said:

This is not found in Gods WORD.  If it was you would have shown it by now.  It wouldn't be about what you think, or what you can piece together, or this harvest MEANS  or this week MEANS. 

Does it give you any pause AT ALL

THAT JESUS NEVER MENTIONS IT?  

Does it give you any pause AT ALL 

THAT PAUL TELLS US THERE IS TO BE NO GATHERING UNTIL AFTER?

WOULD PAULS WRITINGS HAVE ever been SO BLUNT AND TO THE POINT if there was a possibility of A PRE TRIB RAP WHICH REQUIRES "A GATHERING"?  

Why do you fight against the very word of God? OF COURSE it is found in the word of God. But due to preconceptions, some are blind to this truth.
The truth is, most people who fight against a pretrib rapture cannot find the "trib" in Revelation. 

I think you don't understand Paul.  He tells us there will be a DEPARTING "first." then, after the restrainer (the Holy Spirit working through the church) has been "taken out of the way" (departed) then the man of sin can be revealed. 

OF COURSE the rapture will be a "gathering." the dead in Christ and the alive in christ will be around the planet. But Christ will be on ONE CLOUD somewhere. 

How many times must you see it: Go back and read 1 Thes. 4 & 5 AGAIN. But understand: Paul shows us HIS rapture comes just before wrath. And John shows us that WRATH starts at the 6th seal. John shows us the "trib" starts at the 7th seal. (After.)

To KNOW pretrib, midtrib, posttrib, or prewrath, one MUST know where "the trib" is in Revelation. Most don't know. 

[DeighAnn]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

How old are you? And you still don't know that dead bodies are BURIED? Have you never been to the cemetery when they lower the casket? 

HOW IS IT THE RICH MAN SAW LAZARUS IN THE BOSOM OF ABRAHAM???  So simple: SPIRITS are visible to other SPIRITS. 

it is raised in incorruption:  As I have said, the body-less saints come with Jesus to JOIN with their new, resurrection body.

we shall be changed.   We that are alive get "changed. The Dead in Christ will come from heaven to JOIN with their resurrection body that is changed as the Holy Spirit raises it from the grave. I hope you understand, the dead in Christ will get their OLD BODY back; but it will be changed into a resurrection body.  How is it you don't already know these things?

THE FLESH GOES INTO THE GROUND FROM WHENCE IT CAME.  OUR SOUL AND SPIRIT ARE NOT OUR FLESH.  HENCE 

 

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IS BEING SAID HERE?  READ THE REST OF THE CHAPTER.  IT IS ABOUT OUR FLESH LIFE ON EARTH.  THIS IS THEN THE END  OF LIFE IN THE FLESH  "THE SILVER CORD BE LOOSED"?  
 

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: AND THE SPIRIT SHALL RETURN UNTO GOD WHO GAVE IT  


HERE EARLIER IN THE SAME BOOK?  HAVE YOU NOT READ?

Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

Ecclesiastes 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

[iamlamad]

23 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

THE FLESH GOES INTO THE GROUND FROM WHENCE IT CAME.  OUR SOUL AND SPIRIT ARE NOT OUR FLESH.  HENCE 

 

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IS BEING SAID HERE?  READ THE REST OF THE CHAPTER.  IT IS ABOUT OUR FLESH LIFE ON EARTH.  THIS IS THEN THE END  OF LIFE IN THE FLESH  "THE SILVER CORD BE LOOSED"?  
 

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: AND THE SPIRIT SHALL RETURN UNTO GOD WHO GAVE IT  


HERE EARLIER IN THE SAME BOOK?  HAVE YOU NOT READ?

Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

Ecclesiastes 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

THE FLESH GOES INTO THE GROUND FROM WHENCE IT CAME.  OUR SOUL AND SPIRIT ARE NOT OUR FLESH.   Ah! So you DO Know that dead bodies are buried. Good.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: AND THE SPIRIT SHALL RETURN UNTO GOD WHO GAVE IT   How do you reconcile this verse with Jesus story of the rich man and Lazarus? Did the spirit of the rich man go back to God? Did the spirit of Lazarus go back to God?

We judge these Old Testament scriptures through the New Testament that gives us a clearer picture.  The "breath" (air intake and expulsion) may well go back to God, but Jesus story of Lazarus and the rich man is very clear. Their spirit and soul did NOT return to God to to heaven.. In their case they went DOWN to hades (where ALL the departed went back then).  But when Jesus broke the power of death, He released all the righteous (Lazarus and Abraham included) and took them to heaven.  Now when a saint dies, their spirit and soul (Mind, will, emotions) goes to heaven. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by iamlamad

[DeighAnn]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

Why do you fight against the very word of God? OF COURSE it is found in the word of God. But due to preconceptions, some are blind to this truth.
The truth is, most people who fight against a pretrib rapture cannot find the "trib" in Revelation. 

I think you don't understand Paul.  He tells us there will be a DEPARTING "first." then, after the restrainer (the Holy Spirit working through the church) has been "taken out of the way" (departed) then the man of sin can be revealed. 

OF COURSE the rapture will be a "gathering." the dead in Christ and the alive in christ will be around the planet. But Christ will be on ONE CLOUD somewhere. 

How many times must you see it: Go back and read 1 Thes. 4 & 5 AGAIN. But understand: Paul shows us HIS rapture comes just before wrath. And John shows us that WRATH starts at the 6th seal. John shows us the "trib" starts at the 7th seal. (After.)

To KNOW pretrib, midtrib, posttrib, or prewrath, one MUST know where "the trib" is in Revelation. Most don't know. 

  You are dissecting words that mean the same thing so that you can make them mean something else to support a doctrine.  Lets see if you can show me one thing IN GODS WORD without having to resort to any explanation


 THESS SAYS  
WHEN CHRIST RETURNS
OUR LOVED ONES WILL BE WITH HIM
AND WE WILL BE CHANGED. 

WHERE DO YOU GET PRE TRIB IN THOSE VERSES? 



THE SEALS ARE KNOWLEDGE.   And when are the trumpets HANDED OUT? 

Revelation 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

Revelation 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

 And the Vials when are they poured out?  Chapter 16?    


REMEMBER HOLD BACK THE WINDS UNTIL THEY ARE SEALED???  THOSE AREN'T ACTIONs THEY ARE KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT IS COMING.  WHAT WE ARE TO WATCH FOR.  so we can follow the command of Jesus and NOT BE DECEIVED.  

 

42 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Where in Revelation will be the rapture of the church?  John did not see the rapture, but saw the raptured church: The great crowd too large to number in chapter 7. Note very carefully: the great crowd is seen in heaven BEFORE the 7th seal starts the 70th week.

WHERE  do you think the last almost 6000 years of souls have gone?  About 6 or 7 billion souls?  You know FROM ADAM to WHOEVER DIED IN THIS LAST SECOND?   WHY they are like the sands of the sea or the dust of the earth or the stars in the sky in number.  

GOD IS THE GOD OF THE LIVING NOT THE DEAD.  NOT ONE SOUL HAS DIED.  NOT ONE.  OF EVERY SOUL WHO HAS EVER BEEN BORN THEY ARE ALL STILL ALIVE.  AND THEY HAVE RETURNED TO THE FATHER FROM WHENCE THEY CAME.  AND THEY ARE IN HEAVEN RIGHT NOW.  DO YOU SEE THEM?  DO YOU SEE THAT GREAT CROWD TO LARGE TO NUMBER.  RIGHT NOW. STANDING BEFORE GOD.  NOTE CAREFULLY WE ARE STILL ON EARTH.