Wesley L Posted August 31, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 304 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 186 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) Hi @joe, Your beliefs makes me wonder. Does anyone need to belief in Jesus Christ to be saved? Is there any deadline when someone should do that? Is there any urgency? Edited August 31, 2020 by Wesley L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithwilldo Posted August 31, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 168 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/20/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/31/1961 Share Posted August 31, 2020 7 hours ago, Marathoner said: The Lord brought what you have written to my attention, @Faithwilldo, bidding me to read what you have shared on the forum. You have described that work which Jesus Christ started when He came to me out of the blue many years ago, when I was a young man ignorant of the Lord and His ways, walking in darkness. You have also described that work which the Son of God displayed when He came to me again many years later, when I was dying and close to the grave. I died with Christ and having been buried with Him, the Lord lifted me up into life promising that I will never taste death. As Christ came to you a second time He came to me again in like manner. This life I live is not my own. I bear witness to the truth of these words, Joe. You are the first I have met to reveal the testimony with such detail. Our Father in heaven blessed me with the honor of laying aside my life so that another might live, sparing me from death and the grave so I might live for His Son. My place is to serve my neighbor and encourage the brethren because this life is given to me by Jesus Christ, the Living One who holds the keys to death and hades. Thank you for sharing with me. I take this to mean that for the most part, you agree with what I have been posting??? Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithwilldo Posted August 31, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 168 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/20/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/31/1961 Share Posted August 31, 2020 6 hours ago, Wesley L said: Dear Joe, It happened to me before... all texts gone... 1 Timothy 2: 1-7 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time. 7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. God desires all men to be saved, does that mean all men are saved? God desires all men not to sin, does that mean that all men don't sin? God desires all husband to love their wives, does that mean all husbands love their wives? Is the sacrifice of Jesus sufficient to save all, certainly! But will everyone accept Jesus as savior, unfortunately not. Everyone can certainly make use of the bible to fit their own beliefs. But what is God trying to tell you? Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. Another wrong teaching is that God is failing when some people don't get saved. How can an almighty God not save everyone? Can God save everyone, yes certainly He is God. If God is only just, nobody gets saved. It is God's mercy that some gets saved, the ones who trusts in Jesus as Lord and Savior. It's God's love to give us the choice of redemption. We can deny it, and many will. What you believe is called universalism, you should check it out and pray to the Lord to disclose you the truth. It is spread by the Word of Faith teachers. The problem with universalism is that it focus only on 1 aspect of God, all loving. But tends to forget that God is just and holy. It uses scripture out of context. Exodus 20:4 “You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. Joe, I am not doubting that you have a kind and loving heart. Deep inside, I too wished that everybody was saved. I still have a lot of friends and family who are unbelievers. But I know, not everybody is willing to repent and put their trust in Jesus Christ. The bible says, when we die, our body will go back to earth. Our souls will go back to God. And one day, we all will be resurrected in our new immortal bodies. That is when the judgement will come. That is when Jesus will look into the book of life. John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. (this verse is exclusive) John 14:6 [universalism version] jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; everybody comes to the father through me." (this verse became inclusive) Revelation 20:15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15 [universalism version] And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. But will be saved afterwards. I understand that you believe that after this, unbelievers will still have a chance. It is our human will, our own desire that we think that when everybody is saved, that this would be the best solution to our problem. But God says otherwise. His will is clear through scripture. His will will be done, not our will, not our own desires. God is willing to forgive everybody. But His will is that only the ones are saved who are trusting in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. God giving us free will, even when we use it to deny Him, to choose to live without Him, that is love. You said: God desires all men to be saved, does that mean all men are saved? First of all, the verse I quoted is correctly translated as "will have" but it doesn't make any difference if you believe it should read "desires to have" because God ALWAYS achieves all His desires. Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do. Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? (Darby) 2 Chron 20:6 and he said, Jehovah, God of our fathers, art not thou God in the heavens, and rulest thou not over all the kingdoms of the nations? And in thy hand there is power and might, and none can withstand thee. Our understanding of God and how He works is one of the fundamental differences between what you believe and I believe. Scripture says that God ALWAYS accomplishes His desires. You see God in a different light than me. As with mankind, we desire a lot of things but most of them fall by the wayside because we have no ability to accomplish those desires. But as I have said many times, God is not like mankind - He always accomplishes what he desires. Scripture does not leave any room for God to fail at anything that He says He will do. Why do you not accept these verses? Is it because you see people dying without salvation so you assume that they can never be saved? Just because God will judge them does not mean that He will not save them. You are making an assumption that has no scriptural support. If you can't get past the translations of "aion" and "aionios" then I suggest that you read Ray Smith's open letter to John Hagee concerning one of Mr. Hagee's sermons. It's at bible-truths.com. You said: What you believe is called universalism, you should check it out and pray to the Lord to disclose you the truth. It is spread by the Word of Faith teachers. The problem with universalism is that it focus only on 1 aspect of God, all loving. But tends to forget that God is just and holy. It uses scripture out of context. I do not believe in universalism. It is full of many non-scriptural beliefs. That denomination does not teach what I teach. You said: Deep inside, I too wished that everybody was saved. Then why don't you believe that God will accomplish mankind's salvation when He wants the same thing? Your understanding of God is not correct. I suggest that you pray for more faith to believe what He says in scripture. Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? God always accomplishes what He wants. It makes no difference if man wants something different. He is spirit and His work happens between our ears. He will give us the necessary spiritual "gifts" that will make our "will" match His "will". That is what the Holy Spirit does. We are all born carnally minded and the carnal mind hates God. Unless God acts within us, nothing about our hatred for Him would ever change. Paul changed in an instant on the Damascus Road. Christ came to him "suddenly" from out of the blue and changed Paul from within. That is the only way a person can accept Christ and that is how God can "choose" His Elect apart from anyone else. Unless God acts, no one would seek Him out and desire to know Him. If anyone believes that they have a "love for the truth", then it came from God. We are not born with that love. And that is why no man can boast about their salvation. Christ does His work within us to change our understandings & beliefs. That is how He cleans the inside of our cup. You said: The bible says, when we die, our body will go back to earth. Our souls will go back to God. And one day, we all will be resurrected in our new immortal bodies. That is when the judgement will come. That is when Jesus will look into the book of life. BODY + SPIRIT = A LIVING SOUL When we die, our body returns to dust and our "spirit" returns to God. Without a body, we are dead. Upon our resurrection from death, we receive a new body with our spirit inside it. At that point, we are a living soul again. Judgment for the Elect happens now in this life time. Judgment teaches us righteousness. Why do you believe that God has two kinds of judgment - one for the Elect and one for the lost in the final age? This verse says there is only one judgment for the inhabitants of the world. Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. You said: I understand that you believe that after this, unbelievers will still have a chance. Unbelievers and everyone else does not have a chance. It is the work of Christ that saves us. There is no "chance" to it. Our salvation happens solely because it is God's will for it to happen. John 1:12–13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Eph 1:4-5 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. These verses above contradict what you believe. You said: God is willing to forgive everybody. But His will is that only the ones are saved who are trusting in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. God giving us free will, even when we use it to deny Him, to choose to live without Him, that is love. Everyone will deny Him unless He does His work within us. Your beliefs take credit for His work and leads one to be self-righteousness. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithwilldo Posted August 31, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 168 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/20/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/31/1961 Share Posted August 31, 2020 6 hours ago, Wesley L said: Dear Joe, Did something cause you to write this? Or did you freely choose to write this? Did something cause me to answer you? Or did I choose to answer you? The verses you use tells us that God is sovereign. Just like when Jesus said: John 19:11 Jesus answered, “You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.” Did God caused Jesus to be delivered? Or did the Jewish religious leaders delivered Jesus in their free will? Did God caused the holocaust to happen? Did God caused evil to happen? That is the result of your claims. Not intentionally maybe but eventually that would be blasphemous. Yes, God causes all things to happen. He leaves nothing to chance, especially our salvation. He created and uses both good and evil to accomplish His will on earth by making them (good and evil) work together for good. We live not only by "bread" but by every word that God speaks. I have already posted the verses that teach this truth and you previously rejected them. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted August 31, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 909 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,660 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,839 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2020 Is a parent to blame for their child? Is an inventor to blame for what goes wrong with their invention? If you give a drunk money for food and clothing and shelter and he spends it on booze, are you to blame? God created autonomy (therefore choice). For there to be right choices there had to be wrong choices as well. Up has to have a down. The top has to have a bottom. The left has to have a right. God created all things to be perfect. Our bad choices / misuse echoed down some 7-10 thousand years cause the evil that resulted. Evil is a result. If yo need to blame anyone blame the devil (the first one to sin)... and ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithwilldo Posted August 31, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 168 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/20/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/31/1961 Share Posted August 31, 2020 6 hours ago, Wesley L said: Hi @joe, Your beliefs makes me wonder. Does anyone need to belief in Jesus Christ to be saved? Is there any deadline when someone should do that? Is there any urgency? How can you ask such a question??? I have stated my understanding in detail many times. God has created a pathway that leads us to salvation. We cannot deviate from it nor can we "choose" not to travel that pathway. The only "deadline" for salvation is for the Elect (the First Fruits). If one has been chosen by Christ to be saved now, then they will be saved now. And as I have repeatedly said, our salvation is the work of Christ. He will see to it that all the necessary work is done within each chosen believer before they die. No one else has a "chance" for salvation now because they cannot save themselves. We must be changed from within and mankind has no power to change themselves. We won't even "seek" out God to do it for us. Rom 3: 10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Our salvation comes only from the work of Christ and if He does not do His work within someone, then they will not be saved at this time. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithwilldo Posted August 31, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 168 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/20/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/31/1961 Share Posted August 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, JohnD said: Is a parent to blame for their child? Is an inventor to blame for what goes wrong with their invention? If you give a drunk money for food and clothing and shelter and he spends it on booze, are you to blame? God created autonomy (therefore choice). For there to be right choices there had to be wrong choices as well. Up has to have a down. The top has to have a bottom. The left has to have a right. God created all things to be perfect. Our bad choices / misuse echoed down some 7-10 thousand years cause the evil that resulted. Evil is a result. If yo need to blame anyone blame the devil (the first one to sin)... and ourselves. Yes, evil is a result of the way God created mankind and even Satan. He made us the way we are for a purpose. Mankind must know "good and evil" to be like God. He made us evil and will later make us all good. Joe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted August 31, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,373 Content Per Day: 7.12 Reputation: 13,435 Days Won: 99 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Faithwilldo said: Thank you for sharing with me. I take this to mean that for the most part, you agree with what I have been posting??? Joe Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted August 31, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.51 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2020 On 8/11/2020 at 1:58 AM, WowLookaDuck said: God is sovereign. Why is it wrong to blame him for things that happen in our lives? Because blame implies wrongdoing. Everything God does is right and good, whether we can see why or not. This is why we are told to give thanks for all things. Eph. 5:20 (VW) giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted August 31, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 909 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,660 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,839 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2020 27 minutes ago, Faithwilldo said: Yes, evil is a result of the way God created mankind and even Satan. He made us the way we are for a purpose. Mankind must know "good and evil" to be like God. He made us evil and will later make us all good. Joe I will only say that the longer I live the more I believe we are to learn to trust God implicitly. For only he had the omniscience to truly know good from evil. We are so easily fooled... even when we really try... Proverbs 14:12 / 16:25 / Isaiah 64:6 Stay well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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