Faithwilldo Posted August 18, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 168 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/20/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/31/1961 Share Posted August 18, 2020 1 minute ago, johnthebaptist said: If you want to sin, go ahead and sin. It's no skin off my teeth. Are you saying that you don't sin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted August 18, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,363 Content Per Day: 7.99 Reputation: 21,548 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted August 18, 2020 31 minutes ago, Faithwilldo said: The verse only says that the seventh day was sanctified. Under the Law of Moses the seventh day became the Sabbath day in which man too was to rest from their work. You are making a huge assumption that the sanctification of the seventh day applies to the work of the first six days. Scripture does not support this assumption. What scripture does says about God's work during the six days is that it was very good: Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. So what was it good for?? It was good for producing God's offspring who will learn good and evil. Joe We’re done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted August 18, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.49 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted August 18, 2020 On 8/15/2020 at 10:39 AM, Josheb said: Yeah, okay. I was trying to be light-hearted. They way the post reads is a bit humorous because it's self-contradictory in places and I thought a little encouragement to re-read it would make evident the need for some minor edits. But I can see that is not happening. First, no one has a right to anything. Take some time sometime to do a Bible study of the word and the concept of "rights" as asserted in scripture. It will take longer than this set of exchanges will tolerate but the effort will be informative, better informing your already-existing position. You'll be stronger for it. The conclusion is unavoidable: there are no "rights" and what we deserve is destruction. It is only by grace that any of us draw a single breath. Every single post in this entire forum, whether pro-God or anti-God exists solely because by His grace God permitted that poster to draw breath long enough to write the post. Entitlements are a lie from the pit of hell. The only rights believers have are those commuted to us in Christ. Second, the idea non-believers do anything to or with or against God is always self-contradictory and therefore self-refuting. Atheists and antitheists have afield day with this and constantly embarrass Christians and other theists because we think from our own point of view - one they do NOT share! To say they "blame" God would mean they believe in God. Non-believers are by definition not believers. They are trolling you when they talk about judging God. You think about it logically from within your existing belief but their "logic" thinks you logic foolish because it presume God's existence. They do not literally blame God. They rhetorically blame God. They do not literally blame God because they do not believe a God, any god, actually exists. So not rights and no blaming and no God. Lastly, God feeling pain does not make him a/the God of Pain. This is something like a fallacy of equivocation where the same word is used with different meanings. I wonder if this is perhaps rooted in arguments like those found in C. S. Lewis' book, "The Problem of Pain," in which it is argued joy can't be properly or completely understood without its antithesis or alternatives (sadness, pain, etc.). Lewis was wrong. Or, at least Lewis was reckless for not specifying that as a post-fall, or post-disobedient, or post-Genesis-3:7 condition because prior to sin there was not pain or suffering pertaining to sin. This is especially true of Calvary. According to the Bible it pleased God to crush His Son! (Isa. 53:10) We look at the torturous experience through post-sin eyes and not the righteous, holy, perfect never-sinless eyes of the pre-existent trilogy. We must remember Jesus's sacrifice was foreknown before the world was made. That means it was an inevitability before a single atom was ever spoken into existence, before a single human was ever made or drew breath, and before a single act of disobedience was ever committed. It means Jesus' sacrifice is not dependent upon the existence of sin. He came to undo the works of the devil but that is not the only reason he came. To say that is the only reason is to make God and His plan for creation dependent upon sin. And God is not in any way, shape, or form remotely dependent upon sin. No rights, nor blaming, no God, no ontology of Pain. This is important because if the op really doesn't know the answer(s) to the questions being asked and is in need of sound counsel that earlier post does more damage than good. This is an excellent post...particularly regarding the Cross from before Creation and how it points to a larger Plan—-His Eternal Purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted August 18, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.29 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted August 18, 2020 33 minutes ago, Faithwilldo said: Are you saying that you don't sin? I can't say I never sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted August 18, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.29 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted August 18, 2020 35 minutes ago, Faithwilldo said: Are you saying that you don't sin? 1 minute ago, johnthebaptist said: I can't say I never sin. But when I do, I take responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithwilldo Posted August 18, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 168 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/20/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/31/1961 Share Posted August 18, 2020 37 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said: But when I do, I take responsibility. And well you should because you are the one who sinned, not God. I am no different. However, God is responsible for our weak & carnal condition and for the temptation coming our way. When we sin, we do it willingly which is God's intention in the first place. He gave us the Law so that we would sin all the more and so that we would also have knowledge of it. From this knowledge, we are lead to Christ because He is the only One who can spiritually change us. God is in full control: Rom 11:36 because of Him, and through Him, and to Him are the all things; to Him is the glory -- to the ages. Amen. God is responsible for all things within His creation. That includes the negative things like evil, Satan, death and sin. Isa 45:5-7 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Why is it so difficult for you to believe that God is responsible for "all things"? After all, He is God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted August 18, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.29 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted August 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Faithwilldo said: And well you should because you are the one who sinned, not God. I am no different. However, God is responsible for our weak & carnal condition and for the temptation coming our way. When we sin, we do it willingly which is God's intention in the first place. He gave us the Law so that we would sin all the more and so that we would also have knowledge of it. From this knowledge, we are lead to Christ because He is the only One who can spiritually change us. God is in full control: Rom 11:36 because of Him, and through Him, and to Him are the all things; to Him is the glory -- to the ages. Amen. God is responsible for all things within His creation. That includes the negative things like evil, Satan, death and sin. Isa 45:5-7 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Why is it so difficult for you to believe that God is responsible for "all things"? After all, He is God. I thought you said we could blame our sin on God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter and Deborah Posted August 18, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 14 Topic Count: 2,264 Topics Per Day: 0.50 Content Count: 4,389 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 5,031 Days Won: 3 Joined: 01/13/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1947 Share Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) On 8/10/2020 at 5:58 PM, WowLookaDuck said: God is sovereign. Why is it wrong to blame him for things that happen in our lives? @WowLookaDuck Because for me I have learned to trust in Him for everything, there are many reasons as to why I have decided to totally depend on His sayings for my life. For it is He that has made us a divine creator, and He knows exactly what to do at any given time, He has become the God of my salvation. I would not blame Him for anything, because everything has its own purpose. Do you see any reason to blame God for anything since He is sovereign? Love, Walter Edited August 18, 2020 by Walter and Deborah More info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithwilldo Posted August 18, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 168 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/20/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/31/1961 Share Posted August 18, 2020 30 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said: I thought you said we could blame our sin on God. God is responsible for all the sin and evil in the world. He created it and uses it to accomplish His "will" to produce offspring fully made in His image. An image that knows good and evil. However, we are responsible for our sins, too because we sin willingly. God causes all the factors to be in place so that we make that decision to sin. He doesn't force us to sin but we do so willingly because of our weak & carnal spiritual condition. God knows us so well that He knows exactly what must be done to cause the outcome He wants. And He does this without our permission or knowledge that He is doing it. Rom 8:20-22 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. Ecc 3:11 He (God) has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put obscurity in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does, that which God does from the beginning to the end. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted August 18, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.29 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted August 18, 2020 52 minutes ago, Faithwilldo said: God is responsible for all the sin and evil in the world. He created it and uses it to accomplish His "will" to produce offspring fully made in His image. An image that knows good and evil. However, we are responsible for our sins, too because we sin willingly. God causes all the factors to be in place so that we make that decision to sin. He doesn't force us to sin but we do so willingly because of our weak & carnal spiritual condition. God knows us so well that He knows exactly what must be done to cause the outcome He wants. And He does this without our permission or knowledge that He is doing it. Rom 8:20-22 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. Ecc 3:11 He (God) has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put obscurity in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does, that which God does from the beginning to the end. Joe I thought you said in your last post that I was supposed to assume responsiblity for my own sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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