Charismatic?

[Brother Notlad]

I guess I'm "charismatic" by default because I believe in the validity of the spiritual gifts and their necessity in the modern Church. The gifts have not ceased, they are still in operation and for Christians today. 

But I really am not Charismatic, as means of church or fellowship affiliation. I am Pentecostal in experience because I experience the same experience as those in the upper room in Acts 2. I have been filled with the Holy Ghost and spoken in other tongues just as those in scripture. It is a ongoing experience as I strive to be refilled with the Holy Ghost as often as possible. I am Apostolic in doctrine because I believe in the doctrine taught by the Apostles, such as the One God message, repentance, baptism in Jesus' name, being Spirit-filled evidenced by tongues, and living a life of holiness (both inward and outward) pleasing unto God. I am holiness in lifestyle as I strive to live a life of holiness that is pleasing to Christ. 

Modern Charismatics get caught up in many false doctrines. Their most common is probably the prosperity gospel, and the fact that they believe and often teach that speaking in tongues and other gifts of the Spirit can be "taught" to a Christian. They've turned the Holy Ghost into a "prayer language" which their "converts" pray in without any chances being made in their lives. Whatever goes on in their services I'm almost 100% positive isn't of God. Everything real from the Lord has a counterfeit from Satan. This modern "Signs & Wonders" movement is all wrapped up in flash and worldliness with no attention whatsoever to Biblical doctrine, separation, and holiness. 

This "charismatic sweep" has taken over a lot of Holiness Pentecostal churches. They want the power, but not the life. They want the blessing, but not the sacrifice. Worldliness has taken over the church. Why would the world come to church if its no different than the world? God's commanded us to be a separate people, set aside unto His will and His way. We cannot live and conduct ourselves as this world does and also expect to keep the same power that's always been God-given. 

God has called us to holiness, and that's the very thing most self-identifying Charismatics have thrown out the window. Any kind of standard or restriction is called legalism, and it's all about love, grace, and mercy. God's grace doesn't give us a "Get Out of Sin" free card. We still have a Bible, God's Word, that we will be judged by one day. 

[missmuffet]

I do not support the charismatic movement. 

[enoob57]

On 9/6/2020 at 7:32 AM, Joulre2abba said:

You have mistaken the text to be literal. The word "like".. as in like a flame.. clearly indicates that it was not literal. Yet you have assumed that it was. Therefore you are the one practicing a dangerous thing..

So as not to wonder from the topic but to answer you statement this:
Acts 2:3
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
KJV
The Scripture said there was an appearance which mean a sighted event like as a fire... this means they saw physically like a fire period.

[Michael37]

6 hours ago, enoob57 said:

So as not to wonder from the topic but to answer you statement this:
Acts 2:3
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
KJV
The Scripture said there was an appearance which mean a sighted event like as a fire... this means they saw physically like a fire period.

And they all ended up with scorched heads with no hair on them . . . what?

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, Michael37 said:

And they all ended up with scorched heads with no hair on them . . . what?

You mean like shadrach meshach and abednego

[Michael37]

13 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

You mean like shadrach meshach and abednego

. . . there's Hell Fire, and Holy Fire,

. . . and then there's Strange Fire:

Lev 10:1-3  And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.  (2)  And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.  (3)  Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the LORD spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace.

[Paul James]

On 11/19/2020 at 4:22 AM, Brother Notlad said:

I guess I'm "charismatic" by default because I believe in the validity of the spiritual gifts and their necessity in the modern Church. The gifts have not ceased, they are still in operation and for Christians today. 

But I really am not Charismatic, as means of church or fellowship affiliation. I am Pentecostal in experience because I experience the same experience as those in the upper room in Acts 2. I have been filled with the Holy Ghost and spoken in other tongues just as those in scripture. It is a ongoing experience as I strive to be refilled with the Holy Ghost as often as possible. I am Apostolic in doctrine because I believe in the doctrine taught by the Apostles, such as the One God message, repentance, baptism in Jesus' name, being Spirit-filled evidenced by tongues, and living a life of holiness (both inward and outward) pleasing unto God. I am holiness in lifestyle as I strive to live a life of holiness that is pleasing to Christ. 

Modern Charismatics get caught up in many false doctrines. Their most common is probably the prosperity gospel, and the fact that they believe and often teach that speaking in tongues and other gifts of the Spirit can be "taught" to a Christian. They've turned the Holy Ghost into a "prayer language" which their "converts" pray in without any chances being made in their lives. Whatever goes on in their services I'm almost 100% positive isn't of God. Everything real from the Lord has a counterfeit from Satan. This modern "Signs & Wonders" movement is all wrapped up in flash and worldliness with no attention whatsoever to Biblical doctrine, separation, and holiness. 

This "charismatic sweep" has taken over a lot of Holiness Pentecostal churches. They want the power, but not the life. They want the blessing, but not the sacrifice. Worldliness has taken over the church. Why would the world come to church if its no different than the world? God's commanded us to be a separate people, set aside unto His will and His way. We cannot live and conduct ourselves as this world does and also expect to keep the same power that's always been God-given. 

God has called us to holiness, and that's the very thing most self-identifying Charismatics have thrown out the window. Any kind of standard or restriction is called legalism, and it's all about love, grace, and mercy. God's grace doesn't give us a "Get Out of Sin" free card. We still have a Bible, God's Word, that we will be judged by one day. 

Much of the modern Charismatic movement has departed from the true Pentecostalism of the pioneers of the first part of the 20th Century.  In Bethel, Hillsong, and Kenny Copeland type services,  it is all a pretense.  All that is happening is just man trying to conjure up what he thinks are the gifts, when what is happening is just the flesh.  What passes for the Charismatic is mostly nonsense and nothing like what happened in the Book of Acts, and in the early part of the 20th Century when the true manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit were evident.

We can desire the manifestation of the gifts, but we can't make them happen.  It is the Spirit who distributes the gifts according to His will.   If the manifestation of the gifts is absent, then to say that the Holy Spirit is moving in a service is a lie.  In actual fact most are hoping that He is moving, but hope doesn't make it happen.   In most churches all that happens is three hymns and a sermon, and if the service is labelled Charismatic, there is a "worship" time consisting of fleshly kundalini jerking, shaking and falling over, which was never seen in the Book of Acts.  

Therefore I believe that most of what is called Charismatic these days is a fraud.  John MacArthur and Justin Peters are correct in their estimation of it, because that is all they have seen.  They have never been part of the true power of the Holy Spirit when the real thing has happened.  John Piper, one of the prominent proponents of the Charismatic movement says that tongues "is a toy" for people to play with.  All he is is just one of the watered-down versions of what Pentecostalism used to be.

Modern Charismatic has lost its purity of holiness and true devotion to Christ.  In most modern services, the gospel of Christ is never preached, and there is a definite lack of the conviction of sin that was present during the ministries of Jonathan Edwards and Charles Finney during the great awakenings of the 18th Century.  Modern Charismatics present Jesus as a "friend" whom you can chose to accept, but most "converts" merely get religion and often are not genuinely born again of the Holy Spirit.   This is why we get so many accounts of post-Charismatics who have walked away from the church after a short time because of "the hypocrites" in the movement, and that they have discovered that it was just all talk, and because they were never born again in the first place, they never knew Christ in reality.  All they did was to walk away from a religion that had no substance for them.

Most of the prophecies are false and never come to pass, and the promises of healing for so many are never fulfilled, making the talk "God will heal you" empty and false for so many sick and disabled folk who come to the services with hope in their hearts, but this hope is dashed when things don't happen, and they realised that they have been tricked into believing stuff that is not the real thing.

I believe that the gifts of the Spirit are real, including true prophecy and healing, but these are connected with the gospel of Christ, that Jesus shed His blood on the cross for us, and holiness of life, being a person of prayer and of the Word is essential.   The real manifestation of the Holy Spirit through His gifts has come through devotion to Christ (and not a big-name preacher), personal holiness, strict compliance with the Scriptures, passionate love for the lost and for other believers regardless of denominal badge, and persistent prayer and fellowship with God, getting to know Him through private prayer and study of the Scriptures.  Without all these things, we will never see the true manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit, and the majority of modern Charismatics will just carry on with their pretense and self-deception.

[Paul James]

On 11/19/2020 at 7:32 AM, missmuffet said:

I do not support the charismatic movement. 

I understand that.  Most of it is a fraud and a counterfeit of the real thing.  The Scripture is quite clear that the supernatural gifts of the Spirit are real, and the manifestation of these is to profit every believer.  This means that the gifts can be evident regardless of the denominational badge.  A person doesn't have to have the "charismatic" badge to experience the manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit.  But a person has to be holy, totally devoted to Christ, and be a person of the Word, and of prayer.  He needs through close study of Scripture and private prayer (discussing things with God) to have real and genuine fellowship with Him.  These are the characteristics of a believer genuinely filled with the Holy Spirit.  The gifts are the Holy Spirit's tools of trade.   He distributes the gifts around the body of Christ (not just in "charismatic" denominations) as He wills, and He doesn't do it just for anyone.  He looks for genuine believers, who love Christ and their fellow believers, who are consistent in personal holiness, who love close study of the Scriptures, and who spend time fellowshiping with God in honest, open, heart-felt prayer, making their requests to Him, and enjoying discussing His Word with Him.   He won't give any gifts to ones who want to play with them as toys, or use their to bolster their own religious reputations.   He is no respecter of persons, and He can manifest a gift as much through a little old lady with bun and tennis shoes, as he can in the most important looking pastor in the place.   Tongues is just one of the gifts, and even that gift is genuinely manifested in the person whose characteristics I have already described.   If a person is not holy and neglects fellowship with God in the study of Scripture and prayer, there is no guarantee that the tongues he speaks is actually of the Spirit and not of the flesh, and a lot of the public babbling of "tongues" comes from prayerless people with little or no knowledge of Scripture.

[BeauJangles]

On 8/16/2020 at 8:22 AM, Markesmith said:

Charismatic?

speak in tongues?

why is the no flame over your head?

I couldn't help but notice you are of the Catholic faith, Mark. Having the good pleasure of being well acquainted with countless Charismatic Catholics over the years, not one of them ever displayed evidential symbolic flames being indicative of the very first mass witness account concerning the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Of course, it was also the last thing I would have expected as well. Perhaps that contributed to a continual thought contemplation towards that as well. 

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, BeauJangles said:

I couldn't help but notice you are of the Catholic faith, Mark. Having the good pleasure of being well acquainted with countless Charismatic Catholics over the years, not one of them ever displayed evidential symbolic flames being indicative of the very first mass witness account concerning the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Of course, it was also the last thing I would have expected as well. Perhaps that contributed to a continual thought contemplation towards that as well. 

Sometime back I came across material giving reasons for all the symbols, furnishings, and costumes that attend the Roman and Anglo-Catholic Communions, as they describe themselves. The Bishop's mitre was passed off as representing the tongues of fire, but I am sure if the Bishops I have known, and there have been a few, were to speak in tongues during their services they would find themselves in hot water.

Also, according to some sources, such mitres pre-exist the Roman and Anglo-Catholic denominations, having been worn by pagans who worshipped a fish-god.