John n Claudia Posted August 23, 2020 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 115 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/04/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 23, 2020 3 hours ago, luigi said: The dragon, the beast, and its mouth are allotted 1,260 days, at the conclusion of which the Lords judgment shall sit and rule to terminate the beasts rule until its ultimate demise. The kingdom will then be awarded to the saints with the Lord commencing to reign on the earth. The Lord's return and commencing to reign with His saints also correlates with the conclusion of the two witnesses testifying in Jerusalem. I guess the question now is: How long is the short wait following the conclusion of the second woe, and the Lord's return and commencing to reign through His saints, does Armageddon commence? Luigi, You mentioned that the kingdom will be awarded to the saints with the Lord commencing to reign on the earth. This is a common misconception that is caused by a confusion of the promises made to the Jews and the promises made to the Church. It is true that both the Jews and the Church will reign and it is also true that the Jews will reign on the earth. However the Bible only says that the Church will reign with Christ. It never says that the Church will reign on the earth. This is a big part of the deception that has gripped the world regarding what is going to happen when Jesus returns. When Jesus returns, he is going to save the Jews and create a kingdom for them here on the earth. They will be living in the same earth that we have today in the same bodies that they have today. It is probable that Jesus will have to do something to clean up the atmosphere that we have messed up with Climate Change, but other than that, it will be the same earth. Additionally, the Jews will have a leader called the Prince in Ezekiel who will rule them. This prince will make sin offerings for himself and will also have children, so we know that this could not possibly be Jesus. In contrast to this promise made to the Jews, we have a different promise that was made to the Church that is infinitely better. The church will be receiving glorified bodies and Jesus has been preparing homes for them in the city of New Jerusalem where they will live after they have helped Him with the Wrath of God. Because they have glorified bodies, they will no longer die and because they had faith in Jesus, they will not be part of the Great White Throne judgement. Given a choice between the two promises, I would much rather have the promise made to the Church. I do not want to rule on the earth in a mortal body when I could instead be ruling with Christ in a glorified body, waling among the stones of fire and exploring planets, suns and black holes scattered throughout all of the various galaxies that God created. I might even stop by to visit Voyager on my way to some far flung supernova. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted August 23, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,799 Content Per Day: 1.03 Reputation: 324 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said: The beast does not kill anyone with his word. They use weapons to kill the armed forces protecting Jerusalem. They take Jerusalem, rape the women, ransack the houses and lead the unbelieving jews captive. Then the Lord comes to Jerusalem and stands on the Mt of olives. The beast's mouth who speaks great words overcoming the saints are not the unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted August 23, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,799 Content Per Day: 1.03 Reputation: 324 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, John n Claudia said: Luigi, You mentioned that the kingdom will be awarded to the saints with the Lord commencing to reign on the earth. This is a common misconception that is caused by a confusion of the promises made to the Jews and the promises made to the Church. It is true that both the Jews and the Church will reign and it is also true that the Jews will reign on the earth. However the Bible only says that the Church will reign with Christ. It never says that the Church will reign on the earth. This is a big part of the deception that has gripped the world regarding what is going to happen when Jesus returns. When Jesus returns, he is going to save the Jews and create a kingdom for them here on the earth. They will be living in the same earth that we have today in the same bodies that they have today. It is probable that Jesus will have to do something to clean up the atmosphere that we have messed up with Climate Change, but other than that, it will be the same earth. Additionally, the Jews will have a leader called the Prince in Ezekiel who will rule them. This prince will make sin offerings for himself and will also have children, so we know that this could not possibly be Jesus. In contrast to this promise made to the Jews, we have a different promise that was made to the Church that is infinitely better. The church will be receiving glorified bodies and Jesus has been preparing homes for them in the city of New Jerusalem where they will live after they have helped Him with the Wrath of God. Because they have glorified bodies, they will no longer die and because they had faith in Jesus, they will not be part of the Great White Throne judgement. Given a choice between the two promises, I would much rather have the promise made to the Church. I do not want to rule on the earth in a mortal body when I could instead be ruling with Christ in a glorified body, waling among the stones of fire and exploring planets, suns and black holes scattered throughout all of the various galaxies that God created. I might even stop by to visit Voyager on my way to some far flung supernova. John n Claudia, If there is no difference between people, including Greeks, Jews, and Gentiles who believe, why are you then separating the Jews as if they are a separate group of people? The Lord is impartial. There is only one body of Christ. 1 Timothy 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality. James 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? James 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted August 23, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,799 Content Per Day: 1.03 Reputation: 324 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2020 1 hour ago, John n Claudia said: Luigi, I see that you are really trying to understand what the Bible actually says as opposed to what people have been taught for many, many years. Before you can really understand what is happening here, you must understand that the rapture is a physical rapture and it happens at the end of the Great Tribulation. I know that this is a difficult thing to accept and I struggled with it myself for a long time before God opened my eyes to what Scripture actually said. Unfortunately, without us first having this common understanding regarding the timing and nature of the return of Jesus and rapture of the Church, any explanation I give will be more confusing than helpful for you. I was told a long time ago to examine all of my assumptions regarding the last days and I would like to pass that advice on to you. I am more than happy to chat with you and explain things in more depth, but doing so in a forum like this does not allow for the immediate feedback that is required for this type of endeavor. John n Claudia, Who do you think these remnant individuals in Micah 5:7-8 on the earth are who have the same miraculous abilities as the Lord, if they are not caught up spiritually to the Lord? Micah 5:7 And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men. 8 And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John n Claudia Posted August 24, 2020 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 115 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/04/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 24, 2020 52 minutes ago, luigi said: John n Claudia, Who do you think these remnant individuals in Micah 5:7-8 on the earth are who have the same miraculous abilities as the Lord, if they are not caught up spiritually to the Lord? Luigi, The remnant in Micah 5:7 - 8 do not have miraculous abilities. Micah 5:1 - Jesus will be born in Bethlehem 5:2 - Israel will be scattered among the nations until the Lord brings them back in May 1948. 5:3 - Israel will be protected by God starting in May 1948 5:4 - Assyria will rise up against Israel with seven shepherds and eight leaders 5:5 - Assyria will defeat Israel and bring about the Great Tribulation. Jesus will then return to rescue Israel. 5:6 - 8 - Israel will rule over their enemies on the earth. This passage does not say that the Israelis will have any special abilities. They will not be able to float in the air or walk through walls like Jesus was able to do after He received His glorified body. This is just saying that Israel will be the ruling nation on the Earth and the other nations will fear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted August 24, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,799 Content Per Day: 1.03 Reputation: 324 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 24, 2020 22 minutes ago, John n Claudia said: Luigi, The remnant in Micah 5:7 - 8 do not have miraculous abilities. Micah 5:1 - Jesus will be born in Bethlehem 5:2 - Israel will be scattered among the nations until the Lord brings them back in May 1948. 5:3 - Israel will be protected by God starting in May 1948 5:4 - Assyria will rise up against Israel with seven shepherds and eight leaders 5:5 - Assyria will defeat Israel and bring about the Great Tribulation. Jesus will then return to rescue Israel. 5:6 - 8 - Israel will rule over their enemies on the earth. This passage does not say that the Israelis will have any special abilities. They will not be able to float in the air or walk through walls like Jesus was able to do after He received His glorified body. This is just saying that Israel will be the ruling nation on the Earth and the other nations will fear them. The remnant who if they go through those in darkness masses, will tear them apart like nothing, are they of whom the nations shall be confounded of all their strength in Micah 7:16. Micah 7:16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John n Claudia Posted August 24, 2020 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 115 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/04/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, luigi said: The remnant who if they go through those in darkness masses, will tear them apart like nothing, are they of whom the nations shall be confounded of all their strength in Micah 7:16. This is not any different than what happened in the days of King David and his mighty men. God will bless and protect the Israelites and they will do mighty deeds, but they will still be mortal humans. They will not be able to perform any the supernatural deeds that Jesus or the glorified members of the raptured church will be able to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted August 24, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 24, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, John n Claudia said: As I said last time, I personally believe that all of the prophesies in the Bible will be fulfilled exactly as the prophets wrote them and exactly as God meant them to be fulfilled. If you are just going to insult the children of Abraham, give reasons why you think the prophesies in Daniel will not be fulfilled and claim that the Bible is wrong, there is no point in continuing this conversation. I wish you all the best. Im saying the prophecies are right. I've been watching the chapter as it has been fulfilled. I learned almost 20 years ago that this administration would move the US embassy to Jerusalem. Did you? I'm expecting Trump to give Israel a host soon. Edited August 24, 2020 by Shilohsfoal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted August 24, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,799 Content Per Day: 1.03 Reputation: 324 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, John n Claudia said: This is not any different than what happened in the days of King David and his mighty men. God will bless and protect the Israelites and they will do mighty deeds, but they will still be mortal humans. They will not be able to perform any the supernatural deeds that Jesus or the glorified members of the raptured church will be able to do. Look at the previous verse in Micah 7:15 in which as in the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt the Lord will show the faithful remnant marvellous things/miracles. Is this on par with simply protecting a kindergarten group of individuals, or is this remnant group of individuals/saints on a different platform, as that of the Lord? Micah 7:15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted August 24, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 24, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, luigi said: The beast's mouth who speaks great words overcoming the saints are not the unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem. Actually the beast is a kingdom consisting of ten Muslim nations and Israel which is represented by the little horn in Daniel. The prostitute which is a city which sits on seven hills in this kingdom is Jerusalem and her children. The ten nations represented by ten horns hate the prostitute and will make her naked. After they have taken control of Jerusalem the entire kingdom is destroyed by fire. The kingdom will then be given to the seed of Abraham, forever. The prophecy doesn't have anything to do with most of the world. Not Russia China or Brazil. It's about the promised land. Edited August 24, 2020 by Shilohsfoal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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