Don19 Posted September 1, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 578 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 255 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/28/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, JohnR7 said: That is not what I said. In fact I only quoted you a Bible Scripture: "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."(1 corinthains 3:15) NOW instead of telling me what this does NOT mean, why don't you try to explain to us what Paul is telling us here. What does "suffer loss" mean because that is what we are talking about. That is fine if you want to talk about: "he himself shall be saved" but my point has to do with the "suffer loss" part of this passage. No sir, I can proceed by determining what a verse does not mean, which I have attempted to do by using other Scripture. This is a valid approach; else, you risk wresting the words of Paul to your destruction (2 Peter 3:16). There are a lot of hard sayings in Scripture, which can be correctly interpreted by first determining what the verse cannot mean. Likewise, every verse that seems to suggest a loss of salvation is possible cannot mean that. But God has placed those hard sayings in the Bible so as to reveal truth to His elect and deceive the rest (Ezekiel 14:9, Matthew 13:10-17, 2 Thess 2:10-12, 1 Peter 2:8). Assuming a man has the indwelling Holy Spirit to guide him, he will forthwith rule out loss of salvation as a possible interpretation (2 Cor 1:21-22; Eph 1:13-14; 1 John 2:20-21, 2:27). Being established on the Rock, one won't be tossed to and fro, and carried about by every wind of doctrine. 11 hours ago, JohnR7 said: "Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory." (Romans 8:17) The key to this passage is: IF we suffer with Him. 2 Timothy 2:12 "if we endure, we will also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He will also deny us" This comes up with the teaching about the Kingdom Age and the Manifest Sons (Daughters) of God. We rule and reign with Him for 1,000 years. I disagree with your view of the millennium. Christ's kingdom is now, and all regenerate persons are in it (Col 1:13). When Jesus returns, He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God (1 Cor 15:24). Right now, born again believers are ruling and reigning with Christ spiritually (Matthew 19:28-29, Eph 2:6, Rev 1:6). Though I do agree that our enjoyment of salvation is conditional to some extent in this life, and there are abundant warnings in Scripture to such effect, not to let any man beguile us from our reward (Col 2:18), in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things we he hath not seen, vainly puffed up in his fleshy mind. And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. So in a way, you're right, but only insofar as the kingdom age is now. But Rom 8:17 in no way teaches that our eternal inheritance is conditioned on how we live, because that is all of grace. Edited September 1, 2020 by Don19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted September 1, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,436 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,582 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted September 1, 2020 19 hours ago, Don19 said: 1 John 2:27: But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. There's only one truth, and Christ is not divided. All religions which are of man teach that a man must work for his salvation. Many "denominations" mix works up with faith and show themselves to be apostate, in rejection of the truth. Because there's one truth, that Jesus Christ has saved His people by His death and resurrection. And that He has given us of His Spirit--the Spirit of truth, because the Spirit is truth--that we may know we're His (1 John 4:13, 1 Cor 2:12). Having received the earnest of the Spirit, I don't work to earn, keep, or prove my own salvation. The truth sets you free. Yes, there are many who call themselves Christians who are deceived--that is, deceiving and being deceived. These are, after all, the perilous times of the last days. The one aspect of this Don19 Quote and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, some mistakenly eliminate the need of teachers (Spirit filled men who have studied to show themselves approved) ... however the proper hermeneutic is the whole council of God which has designed the need of teachers which are men.... An added comment to what I believe to be an excellent post 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_thinkdeeply Posted September 1, 2020 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 25 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/19/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 1, 2020 20 hours ago, Traveler said: Please can you elaborate a bit more and give a short definition of the different stances being promoted. Is this about Jesus is God or Jesus is the mediator between God and men. This was a question posed to me by my friend (who is really nice and really logical and a curious atheist). I think what he's trying to ask is why are Christians fighting over interpretations of the Bible hence the numerous denominations out there? Such as what you have provided as an example, some say Jesus is God, some say Jesus is the mediator between God and men - this is amongst other things (i.e. that's not the only difference in Biblical stance there is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_thinkdeeply Posted September 1, 2020 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 25 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/19/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 1, 2020 21 hours ago, Don19 said: 1 John 2:27: But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. There's only one truth, and Christ is not divided. All religions which are of man teach that a man must work for his salvation. Many "denominations" mix works up with faith and show themselves to be apostate, in rejection of the truth. Because there's one truth, that Jesus Christ has saved His people by His death and resurrection. And that He has given us of His Spirit--the Spirit of truth, because the Spirit is truth--that we may know we're His (1 John 4:13, 1 Cor 2:12). Having received the earnest of the Spirit, I don't work to earn, keep, or prove my own salvation. The truth sets you free. Yes, there are many who call themselves Christians who are deceived--that is, deceiving and being deceived. These are, after all, the perilous times of the last days. How would you know if the spirit is from Jesus or from the devil? Because remember, the devil is in spirit as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don19 Posted September 1, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 578 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 255 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/28/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted September 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, _thinkdeeply said: How would you know if the spirit is from Jesus or from the devil? Because remember, the devil is in spirit as well Because perfect love casts out fear (1 John 4:17-18) - it is a dreadful offense to the Holy Spirit to attribute such to Satan, and evidences unregeneracy (Mark 3:23-29). Read what Jesus is saying concerning the sin against the Holy Spirit and consider it. There are a lot of ways that Satan can lie--anything other than truth is a lie, and there are diverse kinds of lies--but there is one way that he does not and cannot lie, or else his kingdom cannot stand. The Bible is clear about what the Spirit does when you believe (John 7:37-39; 1 Cor 2:12; Eph 1:13-14, 4:30; 2 Cor 1:21-22, 5:5; Rom 8:15-16; 1 Thess 1:4-5; 1 John 3:24, 4:13, 5:6-10)--that is, when you receive the Spirit of truth. If someone has received "another spirit" or "another Jesus" it would be in opposition to the Comforter's work of sealing the heart of the believer, and providing the earnest of our inheritance - the assurance of our salvation. Satan does not cast out Satan. When one is born again, it is because Jesus Christ has plundered Satan's kingdom, and taken such a one into His own kingdom (Col 1:13). There's no free will involved - prior to regeneration, one is a slave of sin (John 8:34). But Jesus Christ has set us free, that we might be His slaves (Rom 1:1 - literally, doulos = slave), His possessions (1 Cor 6:15-20). And He cannot and will not divorce us for any reason, as He has confirmed it with an oath (Heb 6:13-20), swearing by Himself as He could swear by none higher, so His perfect love casts our fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted September 1, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,900 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,781 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, JohnR7 said: Yes, what you say seems to be accurate. In Bible college they tell us to first look at who the Bible was first written for. THEN look at what the message is for us today. Everything God did for Israel - He is doing for us today. Paul tells us: "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope." (Romans 15:4) Everything in the Bible is there for a reason and there is a message for us today. Esp the Torah or the books given to us by Moses. The Holy Spirit will help us to understand how all of this applies to us today. Exodus 32:33 The LORD replied to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot out of My book. *****under the Covenant of Sinai there was no forgiveness for those who were under the Law for sinning against their Lord God...**** ****the statement God made to Moses was for those under the Law... He is telling Moses from now on those who sin against him they will not be forgiven...there is no forgiveness in the Law for that Sin...for other sins yes, but not for that sin... The example of the man who disobeyed the Sabath...he was cut off and was not even allowed to live... We are the Grace of the Cross....Jesus died for all sins and for the whole world... Jesus says: Luke 12:10 10 whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. Matthew 5:38 ....and no more an eye against an eye as in the Law of Moses... John 1:17,16 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 16 but grace upon grace in the name of Jesus Christ... we are under the Cross of Jesus Christ...having forgiveness of sins in his blood... We are under the blessing of Jesus Christ... the blessings of Jesus Christ came to the world with Jesus Christ upon his death on the Cross... Your statement as follows is out of place... "THEN look at what the message is for us today. Everything God did for Israel - He is doing for us today. " Paul never teach anything like that...never...him not Jesus Christ and not the disciples... To the contrary they teach everything we need is in Jesus Christ.. Call only upon the name of Jesus Christ... Our blessings come from him...he is our Lord Jesus Christ... Edited September 1, 2020 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted September 1, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,900 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,781 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, _thinkdeeply said: How would you know if the spirit is from Jesus or from the devil? Because remember, the devil is in spirit as well This is a very good question and I am wondering why the do not talk more about it... We are not ignorant of the existence of other spirits... We are not so naive to believe that every spirit that comes to a believer in Jesus Christ is by the holy Spirit... And that no other Spirit is allowed to befriend a believer in Jesus Christ...by default... No this is not truth... To the contrary we learn that believers are exposed to distorted spirits who desire to teach them the word of God in a distorted way... That's why we have the Spirit of truth to lead us out of distortions... Jesus Christ made it very plain as he had his own experience with distorted spirits in the deserted and there after in his sojourning here on the earth.... Some of those distorted spirits were working through his disciples...trying to derail Jesus Christ from his propose... This was the understanding of Peter and not only of Peter but also of the other disciples and of the whole nation...they had come to believe that the Christ of God will never die.... While that was correct...they did not understand at that time how it has to happen.. When Jesus was telling them that he had to die..that he will be judge by the leaders of the people and that they will put him to death...they were trouble....they judge Jesus that he had strayed away... That he had been confused and distort the truth... They tried to save him from his distortion...they had a duty to saved him from his confusion...and Peter told him..don't you know that the Christ will never die....do not wish to die...saying those things is likely saying that you are not the Christ of God... Peter express his beliefs...but that time Jesus discern the presence of the Devil who tried to use this opportunity to derail him from his proposed... Jesus did not say " go behind me Satan to Peter ", but to the devil who followed him and try to use every oportunity to lead him astray...to destored the truth... Jesus said that to the Devil who was present...he told him do not try to lead me... I am not going to follow you. . When Peter said those words the devil seize the opportunity in the Spirit to repeat those words to Jesus Christ...and tell him that Peter speaks the truth....as this happened in the Spirit...Jesus could have been confused that it was the Holy Spirit trying to lead him and accept the suggestion of Peter as the leading of the Holy Spirit... But Jesus discern that it was the Devil and said get behind me Satan...do not try to lead me... That's why Jesus Christ use this opportunity to tell Peter that the Devil desires to shift him the same way as he had just try to shift him in this situation. Distortion also come from our own mind...trying to understand a lot of things without the proper foundation...too quickly and too fast...immaturity in the subject we give our opinion or as a result from inaccurate teachings... One of the things Paul teach was to work towards a shound mind...to better comprehend the things the Holy Spirit may reveal to us...or reading the bible or recognize destorted spirits working in others as they had tried to work in us in the past... To this extent it may be a blessing to have been in this type of situation... As Paul said by the reason of our own experiences we can tell one from the other...and we also have the Spirit of truth that comes to our rescue...revealing to us in due time that a destorted spirit it has or is trying to befriend us... Jesus said this parable...when the word of God is shown in our hearts...without our consent...and without our understanding the enemy will come and show weeds also...or our minds not having the correct knowledge will naturally misconstrue the massage...till the time we are established in the truth in this matter... So we have to accept one another and work and fellowship together as we are... As Jesus said we are too busy to look for specks in other people's eyes...and we do not have the time to look into our own eyes...or we do not like to do that... But thanks to the Holy Spirit who does this for us ... Even there we can still be confused...as some were in the church of... Who were confused and had mistaken Jesus knocking on the door to their heart to let him in to bring correction. And instant show him as the enemy. We need to make careful steps. The road ahead is not easy...but very rewarding. The beauty to come out from some misandersdanding... Edited September 1, 2020 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted September 1, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,436 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,582 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted September 1, 2020 5 hours ago, _thinkdeeply said: How would you know if the spirit is from Jesus or from the devil? Because remember, the devil is in spirit as well It is by His Word that we know Him.... it is only by His Word! That is the motivation of knowing God through His Word - to know God and to be known by God.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted September 2, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 777 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,955 Content Per Day: 3.04 Reputation: 1,985 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2020 Arent those denoms believe in Jesus resurrection ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted September 2, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,900 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,781 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2020 10 hours ago, R. Hartono said: Arent those denoms believe in Jesus resurrection ? They knew it...God did not keep it a secret from them...are surprise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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