7 year tribulation and year of wrath

[Diaste]

On 12/26/2020 at 6:51 PM, iamlamad said:

Readers, just follow John for the timing of the trumpets: they all sound in the first half of the week, with the 7th trumpet marking the midpoint of the week. 

Yes, the last trump at which we are raptured at the midpoint. Closer, not there yet, not pretrib.

[The Light]

On 12/26/2020 at 7:56 PM, iamlamad said:

You mentioned 6th seal marks the last day of tribulation, not really :  The truth is, the 6th seal is the start of the DAY, and the 70th week starts a few days later at the 7th seal. 

I believe both signs (sun and moon) at the 6th seal speak of total eclipses. 

The 70th week is over at the 6th seal and the Day of the Lord begins. The rapture of the Church will happen before any seals are opened, pre trib. The coming of the Lord at the 6th seal is the same coming as Matt 24 and Revelation 14.

[iamlamad]

21 hours ago, The Light said:

The 70th week is over at the 6th seal and the Day of the Lord begins. The rapture of the Church will happen before any seals are opened, pre trib. The coming of the Lord at the 6th seal is the same coming as Matt 24 and Revelation 14.

When you write things like this, I know that you don't know. John's chronology is faultless, from the Holy Spirit. He begins at the start of the church age, when Jesus said "go" and takes the readers on a straight line through history, to where we are now, the 5th seal, and then into the future, again in a straight line into the future; no backpeddling, and flashbacks, no jumping around in time. 

All seals come before any trumpets, and all trumpets come before any vials, just as John wrote it. We are now at the 5th seal, still waiting for the full number of church age martyrs. The rapture will end the church age and TIME will go to the Day of the Lord, and then to the 70th week, which is marked by the 7th seal - the 7th trumpet - and the 7th vial.

Any other theory  - and any theory that must rearrange what John wrote - is bogus.

If I were you, I would start over. 

When John shows us a throne room without Jesus seen, in a book about Jesus, that is a clue.
When a search is made for one worthy to open the seals, and that search ends in failure, that is a clue.
When John wrote that Jesus suddenly appeared in the throne room where he was not seen before, that is a clue.
When John wrote that as soon as Jesus appeared, the Holy Spirit was sent down, that is a clue.

All these are clues to TIMING. Ignore them and you end up with flaky  timing as shown in your post above.

[iamlamad]

21 hours ago, The Light said:

The 70th week is over at the 6th seal and the Day of the Lord begins. The rapture of the Church will happen before any seals are opened, pre trib. The coming of the Lord at the 6th seal is the same coming as Matt 24 and Revelation 14.

Not in your wildest dreams. I follow the text, not imagination. 

[iamlamad]

22 hours ago, Diaste said:

Yes, the last trump at which we are raptured at the midpoint. Closer, not there yet, not pretrib.

You say that because you don't know where "the trib" is in Revelation, of where the rapture is to compare with "the trib."

[The Light]

2 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

When you write things like this, I know that you don't know. John's chronology is faultless, from the Holy Spirit. He begins at the start of the church age, when Jesus said "go" and takes the readers on a straight line through history, to where we are now, the 5th seal, and then into the future, again in a straight line into the future; no backpeddling, and flashbacks, no jumping around in time. 

All seals come before any trumpets, and all trumpets come before any vials, just as John wrote it. We are now at the 5th seal, still waiting for the full number of church age martyrs. The rapture will end the church age and TIME will go to the Day of the Lord, and then to the 70th week, which is marked by the 7th seal - the 7th trumpet - and the 7th vial.

Any other theory  - and any theory that must rearrange what John wrote - is bogus.

If I were you, I would start over. 

When John shows us a throne room without Jesus seen, in a book about Jesus, that is a clue.
When a search is made for one worthy to open the seals, and that search ends in failure, that is a clue.
When John wrote that Jesus suddenly appeared in the throne room where he was not seen before, that is a clue.
When John wrote that as soon as Jesus appeared, the Holy Spirit was sent down, that is a clue.

All these are clues to TIMING. Ignore them and you end up with flaky  timing as shown in your post above.

The 5th seal is the great tribulation which we can prove. Since you think the seals are already opened and don't understand that the 1st six seals occur during the 70th week of Daniel, how can you understand?

Additionally, I am not rearranging the order of Revelation. I just understand that the coming of Jesus in Rev 14 occurs at the 6th seal and is the same coming as the coming of Jesus of Matthew 24. 

[The Light]

6 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Not in your wildest dreams. I follow the text, not imagination. 

You have imagined the seals are already opened. Case closed.

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, The Light said:

You have imagined the seals are already opened. Case closed.

When did Jesus get the book into His hands?

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, The Light said:

The 5th seal is the great tribulation which we can prove. Since you think the seals are already opened and don't understand that the 1st six seals occur during the 70th week of Daniel, how can you understand?

Additionally, I am not rearranging the order of Revelation. I just understand that the coming of Jesus in Rev 14 occurs at the 6th seal and is the same coming as the coming of Jesus of Matthew 24. 

Chapter 14 events happen after chapter 13 events. Period and end of story.  Neither John nor the Holy Spirit tried to rearrange time when this book was written. The midpoint of the week, when all will see the man of sin declare he is God, will cause all those in Judea that believe Jesus to flee, and we see that fleeing in 12:6. Therefore 12:6 is a second or two after the division of the week into two 1260 day periods. John tells us that shortly after that, the False Prophet will show up, and soon after that, they will create an image and a mark, and will then begin to enforce them - but before that happens, John is in chapter 14 showing us angels giving a warning not to take the mark. It is all in perfect order. 

[The Light]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

Chapter 14 events happen after chapter 13 events. Period and end of story.  Neither John nor the Holy Spirit tried to rearrange time when this book was written. The midpoint of the week, when all will see the man of sin declare he is God, will cause all those in Judea that believe Jesus to flee, and we see that fleeing in 12:6. Therefore 12:6 is a second or two after the division of the week into two 1260 day periods. John tells us that shortly after that, the False Prophet will show up, and soon after that, they will create an image and a mark, and will then begin to enforce them - but before that happens, John is in chapter 14 showing us angels giving a warning not to take the mark. It is all in perfect order. 

I missed the part where anything was rearranged. The wrath of God is over in Rev 11. 

Rev 11

¹⁵ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

What is seen in Rev 10 confirms it.

Rev 10

⁷ But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

That is the end of the story. Want to see more information about the story, start reading Rev 14. That takes you back to the seals. At the 5th seal, we see the great tribulation.

Rev 6

 

⁹ And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

¹⁰ And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

¹¹ And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Here is the great tribulation in Rev 14

Rev 14

¹² Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

¹³ And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

So, no rearrangement. Just understanding that the story is over in Rev 11 (the mystery of God as declared by the prophets is finished.) Then you get another view of the same story in starting in Rev 14.