If the Rider of the White Horse had a bow, was given a "Crown" ...

[RonaldBruno]

14 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No, the crown is shown to be made of TWINE which represents something WON

So a heavenly rider (whom O think is an angel) is riding a spiritual white horse, wearing a man-made crown made of twine _ that was given to him because he won it _ before he conquers?

 

14 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Its not an Angel, this is the Anti-Christ. The way he conquers is via his TIMING.

The virus is delivered by an  angel to prepare his rule. Could be Bill Gates or Soros. I used to think maybe a Rothschild nut their wealth doesn't seem to ne as great as it once was.

 

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

IMHO, the Gog and Magog war is Russia, Turkey and Iran being taken out (militarily speaking) and thus clearing the way for this E.U

I think they will go against Israel for sure - could be very soon since peace treaties are angering them.

 

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Then Rev. 8 shows 1/3 of the World is hit by an Asteroid, I assume that is going to hit off the California Coast, there is one that would hit there on April, 13, 2029

OR a super-volcanic eruption ("something like a mountain thrown into the sea").

2029 - ? Stuff is accelerating now.

Here's a glimpse of the Great Reset/Globalism in 2021

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-10-19-world-leaders-planning-world-debt-reset-program.html#

[Revelation Man]

13 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

So a heavenly rider (whom O think is an angel) is riding a spiritual white horse, wearing a man-made crown made of twine _ that was given to him because he won it _ before he conquers?

 

Its not an Angel brother.

Rev. 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and HE that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Since when do we call an Angel HE ? Men sometimes mistake them for men, but God doesn't call them HE, or MEN. The White Horse ALWAYS throughout history, represents a conqueror. See Rev. 19, just BEFORE..........BEFORE Jesus goes forth he is shown on a White Horse, likewise, JUST BEFORE this Anti-Christ goes forth Conquering he is shown on a White Horse with a CROWN that is won {in battle}. Its a PROPHECY, all prophesies have to be shown BEFORE they happen brother!! As per the CROWN, lets look at the difference.

#4735 Στέφανος stephanos {stef'-an-os} from an apparently primary stepho (to twine or wreathe); TDNT - 7:615,1078; n m

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) a crown 1a) a mark of royal or (in general) exalted rank 1a1) the wreath or garland which was given as a prize to victors in public games 

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

From an apparently primary "stepho" (to twine or wreathe); a chaplet (as a badge of royalty, a prize in the public games or a symbol of honor generally; but more conspicuous and elaborate than the simple fillet, G1238), literally or figuratively:—crown.

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

Now lets look at the Rev. 19 CROWN in which God used a totally different word. The book of Revelations says God gave this book to Jesus to give unto his servant John. 

Rev. 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

#1238 διάδημα diadema {dee-ad'-ay-mah} from a compound of G1223 and G1210; TDNT - n/a; n n

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) a diadem 1a) a blue band marked with white which Persian kings used to bind on the turban or tiara 1b) the kingly ornament for the head, the crown For Synonyms see entry G5833

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

From a compound of G1223 and G1210; a "diadem" (as bound about the head):—crown. Compare G4735.

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

Why do you think God used a different word? One was a MAN Conquering and his PRIZE was to be what all the Beasts were, MEN who became Kings on this earth, thus the CROWN is stephanos or a WREATH like crown won on this earth. which will not last the test of time, all these Kingdoms FALL. 

But, Jesus' CROWN is described by a different word, AND he has on MANY CROWNS, and its not a Crown won as a PRIZE, its an ornamental type diadem Crown that describes one as a WORTHY TITLE HOLDER to that crown, its not won, it was a crown showing him as Worthy to his titles. King of kings and Lord of lords. He has on a blood stained robe. If one looks at the word used for bow on the other White Horse rider it seems to refer to Base/Simple CLOTHES...........Not Majestic !!

#5115 τόξον toxon {tox'-on} from the base of G5088; TDNT - n/a; n n

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) a bow

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

From the base of G5088; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric):—bow.

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

So, everyone ASSUMES this is about a bow with no arrows, but it seems from Strong's to mean SIMPLE BASE CLOTHES..........Thus he's not a real king like Jesus who is dressed ornately. 

Rev. 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

In BOTH CASES, this MAN BEAST (Anti-Christ) is described in LOWLEY TERMS, he has a Wreath type Crown and SIMPLE FABRIC (clothes that are not Majestic like Jesus' vestures). Its trying to show us this rider in Rev. 6 is a LOWLY MAN.

13 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

The virus is delivered by an  angel to prepare his rule. Could be Bill Gates or Soros. I used to think maybe a Rothschild nut their wealth doesn't seem to ne as great as it once was.

 

It's not a virus brother, its the Anti-Christ, these four riders are the SAME PERSON.

13 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

I think they will go against Israel for sure - could be very soon since peace treaties are angering them.

 

Look up  the European Neighborhood Policy, you will see the REAL AGREEMENTS already in place, its 7 year deals with THE MANY not just with Israel. He will Conquer (SEE Dan. 11:40-43) Israel, Lebanon, Syria (rolls through) and all of North Africa, hes not allowed to Conquer Moab, Ammon and Edom (Central and Southern Jordan, where Petra/Bozrah is. Where Israel escapes to.

Now, go look at that deal, all these NAMES are listed in that deal HERE IT IS.

VIA WIKIPEDIA

The countries covered include Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Palestine, Syria, Tunisia. (Look at Dan. 11:40-43) THE MANY in Dan. 8:25, in Dan. 9:27 and in Dan. 11:41 (MANY COUNTRIES) are these above, he doesn't just Conquer Israel, you can't be a BEAST over the Region like Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome unless you are going to Conquer the WHOLE REGION, and Israel has to be in her homeland, thus NOTHING from 70 AD to 1948 could be a Beast.

WATCH THIS....Look at this map.

Now look at this map of the E.U. and add in THESE MANY Nations....in Orange below:

Notice Rome and this coming Anti-Christ Kingdom are IDENTIACL in that they both cover every square inch of the Mediterranean Sea Coastline basically. None of the other Beasts came close to doing this. THIS, is why he is said to come out of the Fourth Beasts Head in Daniel 7. He look just like "PAPA".

13 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

OR a super-volcanic eruption ("something like a mountain thrown into the sea").

2029 - ? Stuff is accelerating now.

Here's a glimpse of the Great Reset/Globalism in 2021

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-10-19-world-leaders-planning-world-debt-reset-program.html#

When this Asteroid strikes, of course it had to be described as like a Volcanic eruption to John, he  wouldn't have understood anything else. 

If the Day of the Lord is April 13, 2029, then the Rapture will have to be in the fall of 2025. (3.5 years earlier.).

God Bless. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Revelation Man

[RonaldBruno]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Since when do we call an Angel HE ?

Since when is a human named Death with Hades following after "him" - the rider of the pale horse? I would suggest that rider is the Angel of Death.

Since when did you see a firey horse. I would lean towards the concept that these horses are spiritual as well as the riders on them coming from heaven. In chapter 19 we see Christ accompanied by an army of angels riding horses. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by RonaldBruno
Spelling

[SwordMaster]

Quote

and he went out to conquer the world, could we interpret that "Crown" to mean "Corona Virus"? And could we imagine him shooting the virus with his bow? Interesting thought. It begs the question, how could this angel go out and conquer the world? Since this is part of the Great Tribulation scenario, we have to imagine that all evil is let loose. How could anyone control the world, given that it has hundreds of sovereign nations that govern themselves? By fear, confusion ... a virus! It sort of has everyone under this dark, mysterious cloud that spread so fast and has destroyed much of the economy. We are struggling to get back in the game, but here it comes again and maybe again after that. Yes, it is easy to imagine that this is the Rider on the White Horse.

Actually, it isn't...

We need to pay close attention to the words in a Scriptural text. Several things to point out here, first of which is that none of the four riders in Rev. 6 are Tribulation acts or judgments of God, like most of us have been taught growing up. The judgments of God do not begin until after the seventh seal has been opened, in the Trumpet Judgments.

The riders represent what will take place in the "setting up of the game board" in order to pave the way for the world-wide government that will eventually hand over its power to the antichrist when he comes upon the world scene. The first rider is crowned, meaning that God has brought him into power by His hand, he was not born into power (royalty) or a dictator who took power by force. He had a bow...but no mention of arrows. This symbolism means that he would conquer but not by force, nor by military might.

He will continue for a set amount of time, and then he will be replaced by the second rider which takes peace away from the earth. However, to understand this more fully, we need to understand that the Greek word used here for "peace" does not just mean any kind of peace, nor all kinds of peace - the word specifically means "civil peace." The first rider either causes peace to abound, or preserves the peace in the world for a period of time, and then the second rider that replaces him reverses that. 

I have studied chapter 6 with over 80 hours of study time, and numerous references, and I am convinced (unless further evidence requires a reversal of that belief) that President Trump is the white rider, and when he is replaced - which will undoubtedly be by a social marxist democrat - that the one who replaces him will cause just what the second rider does.

You would have to understand the globalization and New World Order nonsense that the U.N. and billionaire globalists (like soros and ted turner, both communists) want to bring the world into. They even already have their new one world religion (Gaia) up and running. The ONLY thing stopping this totalitarian regime from getting started is Trump and America. America has to fall before the NWO (marxist one world government) can take foothold. This is why the social marxist democrats have been out to get Trump ever since he announced in his running platform that under his leadership, America would not enter the NWO.

 

From that point forward, the democrats and every UN political figure has gone ape-crazy to get him out of office. Just look at all of the fake communist propaganda that CNN (and all the other fake news outlets owned by Ted Turner) has been putting out, along with all of the voting fraud being discovered all over the country. Anyway, the first rider did not bring COVID, that was another UN approved attack not only upon the people of China not wanting to be polluted by more nonsense, but also against Trump's sparkling economy that was booming at historical record rates. 

Enough of the political...anyways, the original assessment in the OP of the four riders is horribly off kilter.

Blessings!

 

[Revelation Man]

5 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

Since when is a human named Death with Hades following after "him" - the rider of the pale horse? I would suggest that rider is the Angel of Death.

 

He kills 1.5-2 billion people That = Death and THE GRAVE (Hades means Grave not hell). 

Rev. 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale(Green) horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell(The Grave) followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

#0086 ᾅδης hades {hah'-dace} from G0001 (as negative particle) and G1492; TDNT - 1:146,22; n pr loc

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) name Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower regions 2) Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead 3) later use of this word: the grave, death, hell.

It can be used as Hell, or The Grave. In this instance its referring to DEATH and thus not Hell because Hell comes after Judgment, so its referring to The Grave, there is going to be 1.5-2 billion people killed by this tyrant, so DEATH & The Grave = an apt description I would say.

The bible is given unto us in riddle, parables and prose. 

5 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

Since when did you see a firey horse. I would lean towards the concept that these horses are spiritual as well as the riders on them coming from heaven. In chapter 19 we see Christ accompanied by an army of angels riding horses. 

Its the Anti-Christ brother. LOOK at what this man does.

He Conquers..........He Brings War (takes away peace). Look in Dan. 8:25, he DESTROYS MANY by Peace. That is why the Red Horse TAKES AWAY Peace, when in reality, he brings War. God wants us to know he comes to power first, via PEACE. 

His Wars do what all wars do, brig FAMINE (Black Horse). And of course he kills 1.5 to 2 Billion people, which brings Death & the Grave, of course.

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, SwordMaster said:

Actually, it isn't...

We need to pay close attention to the words in a Scriptural text. Several things to point out here, first of which is that none of the four riders in Rev. 6 are Tribulation acts or judgments of God, like most of us have been taught growing up. The judgments of God do not begin until after the seventh seal has been opened, in the Trumpet Judgments.

The riders represent what will take place in the "setting up of the game board" in order to pave the way for the world-wide government that will eventually hand over its power to the antichrist when he comes upon the world scene. The first rider is crowned, meaning that God has brought him into power by His hand, he was not born into power (royalty) or a dictator who took power by force. He had a bow...but no mention of arrows. This symbolism means that he would conquer but not by force, nor by military might.

He will continue for a set amount of time, and then he will be replaced by the second rider which takes peace away from the earth. However, to understand this more fully, we need to understand that the Greek word used here for "peace" does not just mean any kind of peace, nor all kinds of peace - the word specifically means "civil peace." The first rider either causes peace to abound, or preserves the peace in the world for a period of time, and then the second rider that replaces him reverses that. 

I have studied chapter 6 with over 80 hours of study time, and numerous references, and I am convinced (unless further evidence requires a reversal of that belief) that President Trump is the white rider, and when he is replaced - which will undoubtedly be by a social marxist democrat - that the one who replaces him will cause just what the second rider does.

You would have to understand the globalization and New World Order nonsense that the U.N. and billionaire globalists (like soros and ted turner, both communists) want to bring the world into. They even already have their new one world religion (Gaia) up and running. The ONLY thing stopping this totalitarian regime from getting started is Trump and America. America has to fall before the NWO (marxist one world government) can take foothold. This is why the social marxist democrats have been out to get Trump ever since he announced in his running platform that under his leadership, America would not enter the NWO.

 

From that point forward, the democrats and every UN political figure has gone ape-crazy to get him out of office. Just look at all of the fake communist propaganda that CNN (and all the other fake news outlets owned by Ted Turner) has been putting out, along with all of the voting fraud being discovered all over the country. Anyway, the first rider did not bring COVID, that was another UN approved attack not only upon the people of China not wanting to be polluted by more nonsense, but also against Trump's sparkling economy that was booming at historical record rates. 

Enough of the political...anyways, the original assessment in the OP of the four riders is horribly off kilter.

Blessings!

 

Dude, where are you getting this from? This is not biblical. The Anti-Christ MUST BE Born in Greece and come to power in the E.U. There is not ifs ands or buts about it. The Seals are NOT ACTIONABLE. The only point out what is about to befall mankind. 

[RonaldBruno]

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

LOOK at what this man does.

He Conquers..........He Brings War (takes away peace). Look in Dan. 8:25, he DESTROYS MANY by Peace. That is why the Red Horse TAKES AWAY Peace, when in reality, he brings War. God wants us to know he comes to power first, via PEACE. 

His Wars do what all wars do, brig FAMINE (Black Horse). And of course he kills 1.5 to 2 Billion people, which brings Death & the Grave, of course.

This man ... conquers, brings, war, famine and death? Following your logic, the four riders of different horses are just figuratively referring to the actions of the Antichrist. So figuratively, you are saying the Antichrist is riding all the horses.

I don't think so for several reasons. These events accumulate and overlap towards the end. And for my other claims I have already stated.

These horses and riders are from the spiritual realm- whether angels or fallen angels.

Examine 2 Kings 6:17

 They deliver the disasters quioft spread quickly and of course are manifest physically as pestilence, death, famine and wars. The Bible tells us what specifically the Antichrist does, that he is given power by Satan, conquers the world, but apparently he hasn't been possessed by Satan yet and we have waves if pestilence and more to come that are conquering the world already. It is being delivered prior to his reign.

Later on in Rev. 9 we see four angels released to kill 1/3 of the population as well. 

Now for instance, if  Gates or Soros was the Antichrist (and both are antichrists), with their investments in these bio labs and vaccines, we could say one of them set this pestilence loose, but the rider delivered it on an individual basis and spread it to the  to hundreds of millions of people.

 

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Eph. 6:12

Of course this whole scenario debunks a Pre-Trib view, which claimed are gone before any of this happens. So they must deny that we are in it - for how much longer I wonder?

Edited November 12, 2020 by RonaldBruno
Added comment

[SwordMaster]

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Dude, where are you getting this from? This is not biblical. The Anti-Christ MUST BE Born in Greece and come to power in the E.U. There is not ifs ands or buts about it. The Seals are NOT ACTIONABLE. The only point out what is about to befall mankind. 

 

No, not really, at all. The antichrist may be born in Greece, but he will be a Jew. No orthodox Jew will fall for the idea that the one they are waiting for as the Messiah would be anything OTHER than a Jew. He will be Jewish, and he will be part of the NWO that is coming. He may well come to power in Europe, but I doubt it. 

The head of the NWO will be the UN, and the UN is currently headquartered in New York, but The United Nations has three additional subsidiary regional headquarters, or headquarters districts. These were opened in Geneva (Switzerland) in 1946, Vienna (Austria) in 1980, and Nairobi (Kenya) in 1996.

As for what you say about the seals in your last sentence, that makes no sense. Please explain what you mean by "not actionable." As for the part that the seals only point out what will happen, I do believe that is what I stated. In order to accurately understand prophecy, we need to understand when a prophetic utterance is God telling us what HE will do, or when He is just telling us what WILL happen. 

In other words, some prophetic utterances are God telling us that He is going to cause something to take place. Other prophetic statements are God telling us what will take place in human history that He will not be causing. Knowing the difference between the two is half the battle to understanding the intended interpretation of that utterance.

Blessings!

 

[RonaldBruno]

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

He kills 1.5-2 billion people That = Death and THE GRAVE (Hades means Grave not hell). 

Hades/Sheol is more than 6 feet deep. It is the where all reprobates go. This includes a separate ream beneath the crust of the earth called the Bottomless Pit/Abyss, where demons dwell, are locked up and reserved for a time when they will be released to inflict torture and destruction on mankind during the GT. The 5th trumpet blows a 200 million demon locusts (who look like horse) are released. After 5 months of torture, they change form and become similar horse like demons with lion heads who breathe fire, smoke and sulfur. We can imagine this to be manifest as a possible super volcanic eruption. The smoke fills the sky, blocks the sun (sackcloth).

[Revelation Man]

12 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

This man ... conquers, brings, war, famine and death? Following your logic, the four riders of different horses are just figuratively referring to the actions of the Antichrist. So figuratively, you are saying the Antichrist is riding all the horses.

Exactly, its about what is being WROUGHT by the Anti-Christ over a coming 42 month period of time when this tyrant reigns.

1.) He Conquers for 42 months.

2.) He takes away Peace (brings War) for 42 months.

3.) This War brings FAMINE as all wars do, for 42 months.

4.) Theses Wars and Famine, AND his desire to be Worshiped as god, brings Sickness, Death and the Grave over a 42 month period of time.

We can even go further, he also Martyrs those who come to Christ after the Rapture over a 42 month period of time (5th Seal). 

Jesus SPECIFICALLY says to these Martyrs, you must wait until all your brothers are killed in LIKE MANNER as you were, thus its a 42 month period of deaths, thus in Rev. 20:4 where we see ALL THOSE who REFUSED to take the Mark of the Beast are JUDGED AFTER Jesus' return to earth, and the live and rule on earth with Jesus for 1000 years. Those only those who REFUSE the Mark of the Beast over that 3.5 year period of time will rule beside Christ on this earth during that time, in glorious bodies, those of us who were Raptured Pre Trib will not be on this earth during that time period.

So, those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 thus CAN NOT be the Saints Martyred during the 70th week tribulation period, they will be raised and judged AFTER Jesus returns. (See Rev. 19 and Rev. 20:4). Those in Rev. 7:9-17 are the Church Age Saints who came out of the 2000 some odd year GREAT TRIBULATION as in 2000>7. You see, 2000 is GREATER than 7, we can't try to limit the way God uses his descriptors to either or. All time is tribulation on earth, Jesus told us so in Johns Gospel.

13 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

I don't think so for several reasons. These events accumulate and overlap towards the end. And for my other claims I have already stated.

 

Yes, if al of them cover 42 months, wouldn't they OVERLAP for 42 months? That is my point. Its all about the same 42 months. The only things that do not overlap are the Three Woes. The First Four Trumps are the SAME ASTEROID being told about from four different angles. Trump #1 The fire comes in ahead of the asteroid. Trump #2, the Asteroid strikes. Trump #3, the Asteroid is shown AGAIN, because this "REASONING" by God is to show a different purpose, this time John calls it a "STAR" and says its Wormwood or Poisonous, well we know nuclear fallout is poisonous, we have no idea what kind of metals will be embedded in this space rock, it may be unheard of metals, but its coming in HOT, its going to be like 100 Nuclear bombs, that is why its shown coming in HOT/Like a star here, and is said to be WORMWOOD. Trump #4 is just the same Asteroid's BY PRODUCTS on earth, the Nuclear like fallout, the fires where 1/3 of all the trees are set ablaze, the grasses burning, the impact of 100 or 200 Nukes being felt worldwide, the earth will v=be SHAKEN, and the Smoke will fill the skies around the world and 1/3 of the Suns light will be blocked and 1/3 of the moons light will be blocked and the Moon will seem red, because of course, all the trees ablaze will give the moon a red hue !!

All of the Anti-Christ's actions will indeed cover the same 42 months, God's Judgments, besides the First Four Trumps will not. They will cover 42 months, just not four different things covering all 42 months like Conquering, War, Famine and Death. 

 

13 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

These horses and riders are from the spiritual realm- whether angels or fallen angels.

 

No they are not, they represent the Anti-Christ. You will never meet anyone that knows the book of Revelation like me, I have been blessed with the total understanding of it, because I have sought out this info via prayer and study.

The Four Horses are taken from Zechariah, but just like Daniel 5 is where the Harlot prose is taken from, they are not the same thig per se, they just represent the same TYPE THINGS. For instance, Belshatazzar (close enough, LOL) took the vessels that came out of God's Holy Temple and had a great party with them, and drank unto the gods of Babylon, thus we got the "Handwriting on the Wall" Mene, Mene, Tekel, thy Kingdom has been taken away from you THIS NIGHT !! 

Harlotry brought Judgment, the Harlot in Rev. 17 = ALL False Religion of All time. She is thus judged in Rev.17, God uses the Anti-Christ and his E.U. States to Judge her or KILL OFF All other Religions save BEAST WORSHIP !! (Revelation 17:16). In Revelation 17:17 we are told God placed it in their hearts to do His will. So, God uses the Old Testament to help us paint the picture of the book of Revelation, but its not the same events per se, its just SHADDOWS of events so to speak. 

13 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

Later on in Rev. 9 we see four angels released to kill 1/3 of the population as well. 

These Angels are not bound in a River, and these Angels are God's Angels. They are BOUND to an APPOINTED TIME. Not in a River, God doesn't bind His servants. 

13 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

Now for instance, if  Gates or Soros was the Antichrist (and both are antichrists), with their investments in these bio labs and vaccines, we could say one of them set this pestilence loose, but the rider delivered it on an individual basis and spread it to the  to hundreds of millions of people.

 

The Anti-Christ has to be an Assyrian (Turkish blood) born in Greece, who comes to power in the E.U. There is no other option. 

13 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Eph. 6:12

Of course this whole scenario debunks a Pre-Trib view, which claimed are gone before any of this happens. So they must deny that we are in it - for how much longer I wonder?

So, the fact that we have been fighting against Demonic strongholds for 2000 some odd year somehow debunks the Pre trib Rapture Paul told us about, even though it doesn't? That is amusing. I don't think that quite adds up.