Marathoner Posted November 29, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,305 Content Per Day: 7.11 Reputation: 13,334 Days Won: 99 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted November 29, 2020 (edited) @R. Hartono, the shelter is closed and our operations have ceased until next week but this doesn't affect our current residents. Because we're a transitional housing shelter and not a traditional homeless shelter, our residents are housed in apartments. We have vacant units available to quarantine residents who are positive for the virus. I'm still working but most staff are on leave until we reopen next week. Edited November 29, 2020 by Marathoner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneS Posted November 29, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 137 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 102 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted November 29, 2020 On 11/27/2020 at 11:15 PM, Oh Hamburgers! said: These are totally different things. Cars are manmade vehicles that provide clear tangible value to a ton of people - we as a society recognize that cars are dangerous, but we accept that risk because we get a lot out of them. "The greater good" and all that. And in case you didn't know there are already driving restrictions... that whole "driver's license" thing Covid is a virus, an illness. It's not something we made to provide value, it's just a contagious thing that we've been afflicted with. Comparing governmental restrictions between cars & covid is comparing apples and oranges. I would like to maybe change the focus of your response. It doesn’t address the fundamental issue, tens of thousands are dying every year and the government has a choice to either put more driving restrictions in to save lives but drive businesses and people out of work OR continue with the current way of doing things and let people die. Just like with Covid pandemic. If you are young and healthy the probability is very low you’ll even go to the hospital, not zero but very low. Therefore, do you prefer a society where the government dictates everything to us? Or do you prefer to live in a free society? Covid is testing that line now. If I lived with my elderly parents, I may very well choose to not go out to dinner, not go to the health club, etc. But I don’t, so I do these things, it is my choice and it is not the governments heavy handedness to make the decision for me. It really comes down to a fundamental issue of people that want to live in a government controlled society versus people that want to live in a free society. Covid is pushing the line on this and it’s interesting to see what powers society is willing to give up to the government. Good discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Hamburgers! Posted November 30, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,144 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 163 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1985 Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, WayneS said: If I lived with my elderly parents, I may very well choose to not go out to dinner, not go to the health club, etc. But I don’t, so I do these things, it is my choice and it is not the governments heavy handedness to make the decision for me. It really comes down to a fundamental issue of people that want to live in a government controlled society versus people that want to live in a free society. Covid is pushing the line on this and it’s interesting to see what powers society is willing to give up to the government. Good discussion. I think on the surface covid looks like this, but when you dig into it deeper it's not quite as straight-forward as just being about individual liberties. You might not be in frequent direct contact with vulnerable populations, but people you are in contact with on a daily basis probably are, or maybe they're vulnerable themselves with asthma, or other underlying health conditions that aren't easily recognizable. These people like you also need to buy groceries, go to work, or run errands from time to time, and while they might be taking precautions their lives become much more dangerous when people around them aren't taking basic safety steps. Masks reduce the risk but don't remove it entirely, and it requires a group effort from a lot of people to slow the curve. It's also a matter of resource availability. Our healthcare system isn't built to handle massive amounts of people at once, and many areas are running into shortages with space, staffing, and even standard testing supplies and resources. This means that more people will die from preventable causes if our health system is overburdened by people who made a personal choice not to take the virus seriously, and as a result are creating a burden on the system as a whole. So I disagree with the notion it's something that should be left to the individual to decide. I think it's a public health issue... and just like how our freedoms have their limits for the good of the many (i.e. shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre isn't protected speech) I think reasonable laws to enforce safer practices in public in light of a pandemic make sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddyv Posted November 30, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,265 Content Per Day: 2.90 Reputation: 2,302 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/03/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2020 I think we need to remember that this will not last forever either. We'll get through this. We are all learning about how to manage this now and for the future as well. Medical science has been doing what it can and there will has been lots of conflicting information as early tests and research is undertaken - but that is now starting to firm up as we see what works and what does not. The question of the value of wrecking the economy is understandable and reasonable. I understand though that the medical professions first duty is to protect life. How the political leaders try and balance that with other needs is not an easy task. There's been plenty of ham-handed policy put in place by politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Hamburgers! Posted November 30, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,144 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 163 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1985 Share Posted November 30, 2020 7 hours ago, teddyv said: I think we need to remember that this will not last forever either. We'll get through this. We are all learning about how to manage this now and for the future as well. Medical science has been doing what it can and there will has been lots of conflicting information as early tests and research is undertaken - but that is now starting to firm up as we see what works and what does not. The question of the value of wrecking the economy is understandable and reasonable. I understand though that the medical professions first duty is to protect life. How the political leaders try and balance that with other needs is not an easy task. There's been plenty of ham-handed policy put in place by politicians. I agree with much of this. One thing I'll add - when it comes to "wrecking the economy"... the sad truth is the economy was going to suffer regardless. If we choose to put in restrictions, the economy takes a hit. If we choose to completely ignore it, then a bunch of people get sick more quickly, can't work & have to take care of more sick family... the economy still takes a hit. It's hard to say exactly what things would look like if we could do it all again and add more restrictions or remove them entirely, but you can't work when you're sick or dead. People also aren't going to be interested in doing a bunch of shopping/consumption if they're afraid for their health when going out in public. It's a lose/lose situation as far as the economy goes. Like you say though we'll get through this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted November 30, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,993 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,691 Content Per Day: 11.76 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2020 The flu is just as bad and takes just as many or more people than the Covid virus. There is a flu vaccine that is safe to get. Why has the flu never gotten the attention that the Covid virus has gotten? There have always been illnesses that are going to affect this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_abc Posted November 30, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 900 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 537 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/06/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, missmuffet said: Why has the flu never gotten the attention that the Covid virus has gotten? There have always been illnesses that are going to affect this world. hi. Just a small note.. If I am not mistaken.. Covid 19 is believed to have killed far more people in the Usa than most types of flu (per year)..? An article I came across recently.. (please note that article is dated more than a month ago.. so perhaps some data /info might not be fully up to date).. https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/no-covid-19-is-not-the-flu.html Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted November 30, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,993 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,691 Content Per Day: 11.76 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2020 26 minutes ago, just_abc said: hi. Just a small note.. If I am not mistaken.. Covid 19 is believed to have killed far more people in the Usa than most types of flu (per year)..? An article I came across recently.. (please note that article is dated more than a month ago.. so perhaps some data /info might not be fully up to date).. https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/no-covid-19-is-not-the-flu.html Thanks! Google the CDC results for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_abc Posted November 30, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 900 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 537 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/06/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Chicken coop2 said: You need to take into consideration the crazy conspiracy theories being spread about Covid19 not really existing but is just a made up plan to keep Trump from being reelected. um.. to me I think such a 'Usa politics' type conspiracy theory does not really make much sense to me.. especially since this pandemic is such a widespread global one.. and data /info /experience of this virus exists in so very many countries around the world.. But that is just my thoughts.. No offence intended to anyone. Thanks. Edited November 30, 2020 by just_abc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_abc Posted November 30, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 900 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 537 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/06/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2020 15 minutes ago, missmuffet said: Google the CDC results for this. hi missmuffet I am sorry but I am not fully sure which results you are refering to? I am wondering.. Are you refering to number of deaths resulting from flu compared to covid? If so.. below is a cdc link which has data /charts showing estimated numbers for influenza in the Usa. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html If one compares the estimated number of deaths per year in Usa related to influenza virus ...(numbers for the last ten years or so.. given in chart in the link article?)... If one were to compare those numbers to current estimates for covid deaths in Usa.... the current covid numbers in Usa is way higher.. So if I am not mistaken Covid is believed to have caused far more folk in Usa to die... compared to flu per year... for flu data at least the past ten years or so.. (and maybe even more?) Just some thoughts. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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