why do Islamists hate the west?

[Eadora]

Yoh Shiloh:

Quote Shiloh357

One of these days, Eadora, you might actually understand this conflict, but for now, you don't.

Thank you my friend.

That feels much better than being called a

[Guest shiloh357]

Actually, superficial is the correct term, since Saudis, Jordanians, Kuwaitis, Iraqis, Syrians, etc. are all one ethnicity. They are all Arabs. There is not difference genetically between any of them. They are all the same. The only thing that separates them are borders that were created mostly in the early part of the twentieth century.

Nonsense, The jurisdictions of Damascus, Baghdad, Medina have deep historical roots .

Please review your history.

Though their borders have suffered numerous manipulations and mutilations these Lands have very ANCIENT roots and status.

Not recognising and admiting this fact gives cause for suspicion and paraonia among Arabs.

Hardly a way to practice Love to your enemy.

Im sorry but the borders that we have before us are modern inventions. Most of these countries did not gain independence until the 20th century.

But that is neither here nor there.

Quote shiloh357 Aug 20 2005, 11:28 PM

As for Arab rule in Palestine... the history of the early Caliphate was short. A genuine Arab empire lasted not even one century altogether. It was called the Ummayyad Damascus Dynasty.

Please review the timeline in earlier my post: Given in part here:

638Arabs under the Caliph 'Umar capture Palestine from Byzantines.

661-750

Umayyad caliphs -Arabs rule Palestine from Damascus. Dynasty descended from Umayya of Meccan tribe of Quraysh. Construction of Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem by Caliph 'Abd al-Malik (685-705). Construction of al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem by Caliph al-Walid I (705-715).

750-1258

'Abbasid caliphs rule Palestine from Iraq. -Arabs- Dynasty, founded by Abu al-' Abbas al-Saffah, who is descended from' Abbas, uncle of the Prophet.

969

Fatimid dynasty, claiming descent from the Prophet's daughter Fatima and her cousin 'Ali, rule Palestine from Egypt. They proclaim themselves caliphs in rivalry to the' Abbasids.

1071

Saljuqs, originally from Isfahan, capture Jerusalem and parts of Palestine, which remains officially within the 'Abbasid Empire. Abbasid the uncle of Mohamad an Arab

1099-1187

Actually the Saljuqs were not Arabs, they were Turks. As for the others I was not aware that they were Arab dynasties. I stand corrected there.

However, this timeline does go to show that Israel's claim to the Land is not inferior to the Arab claim seeing that after 1099, the Arabs are no longer in control of the Land. Again, you have over 1700 years of Muslim nonArab rule in Palestine until the fall of the Ottoman empire.

After the Ottomans, control went to the British. The British gave 75% of Palestine to the Arabs to create the nation of Jordan, and the remaining 25% went to the control of the UN who decided that 13% of the remaining land should go to the Arabs to create yet ANOTHER Arab state.

Quote Shiloh357 Aug 18 2005, 09:59 PM

I have never disputed that there was a legitimate Arab presence in the Land. That goes without saying. I am disputing the legitimacy of their claim to a Palestinian state.

In 1947 the UN General Assembly Resolution 181 proposed the partition of Palestine between Jewish state and Palestinian state.

Then all hell broke loose.

Seems the UN at that time recognized the legitimacy of a Palestinian state.

They recognized the legitimacy of the Arabs who were living on the land and who had lived there for centuries.

Yeah, all hell broke loose after the Zionists voted FOR the creation of the Palestinian state and the Arabs voted against it. That is what makes all this so insane. The Arabs voted against what they claim they are fighting for now. The Jews recognized the legitimacy of the Arabs living there. The resolution passed, the way was made for a Palestinian state. The Arabs voted against it since it would mean living side by side in peace with Israel. The enemies of peace with Israel have always been the Arab world.

Quote shiloh357 Aug 20 2005, 11:28 PM

They were not a "people" in Palestine. It would only be dehumanizing if I said they were not people. I said that they were not A people in the sense of a national entity.

Thank you for the clarification.

I contend and I believe that history backs me up on this.

The Area was administered and included as provinces and or regions in Arab empires for centuries.

They were inhabited and further settled by citizens of those empires.

Those Arab empires have been recognized, as in many ways further advanced and more civilized than what existed in the Dark Ages Europe at the time.

These empires succumbed to the Mongol invasions.

The people continued to inhabit the land.

These Lands suffered centuries of depredation and neglect and invasion by foreign powers ending with Turkish and then British rule.

Even the Turks recognized them as

[jamie]

I know not everyone will share this veiw and i'm not going to argue, but I believe the reason America is despised is because of spiritual reasons.

I think that God established this nation and because of that foundational beginning the demonic principalities which influence mankind especially dislike this nation as well as Israel. I really think that it is because of God that we are hat..(i guess that word isn't allowed)

It really doesn't matter to satan how wicked we've become, it's the fact that God is at the root of these nations, and that inflames our enemies.

They don't even have to understand that principle, but satan does. (just my opinion)

[disconnected]

America seems to have a form of godliness. But I don't think we have cleaned the inside of our cups.

Yeah, lots of people envy us, but they also justly hate that we profess to so good while doing secret evils.

We cannot call America a righteous nation, America is naked and blind & thinks she is holy.

[Guest shiloh357]

America seems to have a form of godliness. But I don't think we have cleaned the inside of our cups.

Yeah, lots of people envy us, but they also justly hate that we profess to so good while doing secret evils.

We cannot call America a righteous nation, America is naked and blind &

[disconnected]

Please note that it is not for me to call for anyone's downfall and I would never rejoice at America's or any country's downfall.

[Guest shiloh357]

Please note that it is not for me to call for anyone's downfall and I would never rejoice at America's or any country's downfall.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was not speaking of you, but of the religious leaders in other countries who with the blessings of their government and populace regulary call for America's downfall.

I am also referring to the ignorant polls taken other countries that regularly hold us up to slander and regularly denigrate the US as immoral. None of those who denigrate us, will ever voluntarily cut themselves off of our illgotten $$, so I think we should cut them off and let'em starve. It is way past time for the United States to administer a heartfelt "attitude adjustment" around the world to several of these nations who frankly would cease to exist were they not benefitting from American aid.

[disconnected]

I was not speaking of you, but of the religious leaders in other countries who with the blessings of their government and populace regulary call for America's downfall.

But what about the religious leaders in our country? Have they not done the same. None of us is worthy enough to recieve God's love. Not one of us! Yes, these people hate the US! They show who their true father is by their fruit.

Let us be the ones to show that our Father is God!

We cannot change other people and we cannot even change ourselves but we can consent to let God change us. When we do that other people are changed because they see God at work on us!

I am also referring to the ignorant polls taken other countries that regularly hold us up to slander and regularly denigrate the US as immoral. 

Can we not bless those who curse us? Are we not confident that He is able to protect us?

None of those who denigrate us, will ever voluntarily cut themselves off of our illgotten $$, so I think we should cut them off and let'em starve.

I believe that directly violates what God has commanded us to do. Loving our enemies is not letting them starve.

It is way past time for the United States to administer a heartfelt "attitude adjustment" around the world to several of these nations who frankly would cease to exist were they not benefitting from American aid.

I think God is the only one who should be dealing out any punishment. We certainly cannot talk about the policies of other countries.

We don't even follow our own.

[Guest shiloh357]

I was not speaking of you, but of the religious leaders in other countries who with the blessings of their government and populace regulary call for America's downfall.

But what about the religious leaders in our country? Have they not done the same. None of us is worthy enough to recieve God's love. Not one of us! Yes, these people hate the US! They show who their true father is by their fruit.

Let us be the ones to show that our Father is God!

We cannot change other people and we cannot even change ourselves but we can consent to let God change us. When we do that other people are changed because they see God at work on us!

I am also referring to the ignorant polls taken other countries that regularly hold us up to slander and regularly denigrate the US as immoral.

[jamie]

Shiloh is right-on, we've tried turning both cheeks and then they punched us in the nose. Our government needs to pull back it's hand and let them call out to their heathen god for provision.