Tristen Posted January 22, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,375 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 1,347 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/26/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 22, 2021 Hello F_Ivan, When entering into a discussion about the Trinity of God, we must first consider the fact that we are trying to understand the nature of an eternal Being from the perspective of a finite mind. So it is likely that we will never be able to fully comprehend God's eternal nature. For me, the trinity of individual humans example is helpful. That is, humans are one in personal distinction (i.e. you), but three in essence(s) (i.e. your spirit, soul and body). Our spirit is the invisible, central core of our life from God. Our spirit is what is “born again” via reconnecting to God and reconciliation with God – Who is the source of our life. Our soul is the invisible part of us that develops from the spirit and distinguishes us from other spirits. It has been called “the throne of our personality”, and our “mind, will and emotions”. The soul is where our decisions are made and our likes/dislikes reside. I assume our body needs no explanation. Together, these three essences account for one person (one individual human). Where this gets tricky is that God is triune (i.e. both three and one at the same time) in the opposite way to humans. God is one in essence, and three in personal distinctions (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). I have yet to find a satisfactory natural analogy to reflect this kind of Trinity. It is easier to find incorrect analogies (e.g. that there are three Gods, or that God is divided into three parts, or that God is wearing three different masks etc.). Ultimately, as I suggested above, there is no requirement of logic that a finite mind should ever be able to fully comprehend the nature of an eternal God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Posted January 23, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 771 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 392 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/27/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1947 Share Posted January 23, 2021 The nature and character of God is a mystery and no one will be able to understand it fully. The Bible teaches that there is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and that they are separate entities. But how they can be separate entities and yet be one God is something we will never be able to understand. I think we need just to accept what the Bible teaches and not try to be over-curious about something that is not totally relevant to the Gospel of Christ. Neither Jesus nor Paul tried to make their listeners understand the makeup of the Godhead, because it was more important to them that sinners believe the Gospel and get saved. There are many mysteries about the nature of God which we will never know while in this life. And we might never know. The Holy Spirit has revealed everything we need to know about how to get saved and to remain godly until Christ comes again. For that reason, I don't care what people believe about the trinity. I just believe the Scripture: "Truly our fellowship is with the Father and His Son Jesus Christ", and Paul gives specific instructions about how to walk in the Spirit, and that is good enough for me. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LearningToLetGo Posted January 23, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 717 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 660 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/21/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Paul James said: There are many mysteries about the nature of God which we will never know while in this life. And we might never know. The Holy Spirit has revealed everything we need to know about how to get saved and to remain godly until Christ comes again. Simple, to the point and powerful. Thank you for this highly persuasive observation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Loger Posted January 23, 2021 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 40 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/14/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2021 Quote I dont understand the trinity It doesn't matter. It's a man made doctrine. It's not a part of the gospel so it's best to ignore it. I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Posted January 23, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 771 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 392 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/27/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1947 Share Posted January 23, 2021 6 hours ago, Gary Loger said: It doesn't matter. It's a man made doctrine. It's not a part of the gospel so it's best to ignore it. I do. If God wanted us to know enough about formation of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit enough to make a doctrine out of it, He would have made it perfectly clear. But He hasn't. He has kept it to Himself, mainly because He doesn't want people to be distracted from what is absolutely required to get people saved and keep them in the faith. Any dogmatic doctrine of either the trinity or oneness is inaccurate, because there is not enough information in Scripture to prove either one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted January 24, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Daily Bread said: It is not understandable simply because it is not scriptural. God is a family of Father and Son. The holy spirit is the power of God not a person.This scripture in John 5:7-8 has been added to as the part I bolded and underlined. This bolded and underlined verse was never in the original text. It was added sometime after the 1400's. “For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.” I don't follow your reasoning here. You claim that the Holy Spirit is only the power of God, which is an action. Then you go onto quote 1 John 5:7-8 as false scripture, added in later. What do the originals say? You do not provide this information. I read the following from 1 John 5:7: hoti (G3754) treis (G5140) eisin (G5126 (G1510)) hoi (G 3588) marturountes (G3140) "seeing that three there are that are testifying" How can an action, such as power as you chose to put it, be seen testifying, if it is just an action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 25, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 907 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,650 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,833 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2021 On 1/22/2021 at 5:11 PM, Tristen said: Hello F_Ivan, When entering into a discussion about the Trinity of God, we must first consider the fact that we are trying to understand the nature of an eternal Being from the perspective of a finite mind. So it is likely that we will never be able to fully comprehend God's eternal nature. For me, the trinity of individual humans example is helpful. That is, humans are one in personal distinction (i.e. you), but three in essence(s) (i.e. your spirit, soul and body). Our spirit is the invisible, central core of our life from God. Our spirit is what is “born again” via reconnecting to God and reconciliation with God – Who is the source of our life. Our soul is the invisible part of us that develops from the spirit and distinguishes us from other spirits. It has been called “the throne of our personality”, and our “mind, will and emotions”. The soul is where our decisions are made and our likes/dislikes reside. I assume our body needs no explanation. Together, these three essences account for one person (one individual human). Where this gets tricky is that God is triune (i.e. both three and one at the same time) in the opposite way to humans. God is one in essence, and three in personal distinctions (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). I have yet to find a satisfactory natural analogy to reflect this kind of Trinity. It is easier to find incorrect analogies (e.g. that there are three Gods, or that God is divided into three parts, or that God is wearing three different masks etc.). Ultimately, as I suggested above, there is no requirement of logic that a finite mind should ever be able to fully comprehend the nature of an eternal God. Three and one = compound unity. There are compound unities all around us. A family of three for example. The three spatial dimensions... up down side to side... everywhere at the same time (in fact without all three there couldn't be an everywhere) in the UNIverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted January 25, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2021 9 minutes ago, Daily Bread said: The scripture in 1 John has been added to. The part I bolded and underlined was added and is not part of the original text.That added part is not seen in this scripture until after the 1400's. In both john 14:16-18 and 16:7-15 Jesus used personification to describe the holy Spirit as it was used in Proverbs 8 and 9 for example to describe wisdom as she and her. When read rightly and in light of the rest of the Bible these two passages do not disagree in any way with the rest of the Bible. The Holy Spirit is not a being but is the very essence and power of God and inherent in God the Father and the Son and emanates from Them throughout the entire universe.1 Kings 8:27,Psalm 139:7 and Jeremiah 23:24 . Genesis 1:1-2 and Revelation 4:11. I should add that the trinity or triple deity of gods is a pagan concept. You can look at the history of three gods in one throughout foreign religions and mythology. It is such a hard concept to understand for a Christian simply because it is not Biblical. We have taken something simple and easy to know and made it difficult. 2 Corinthians 11:1-3 But I fear,lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 1 John 5:7-9 should read from the original text... “For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.” You seem to not want to address why the Greek states "these three are the ones testifying" in 1 John 5-7, specifically how an action cannot testify of anything in itself, but is only a result of the one doing an action. Power cannot testify, so why does it say what it says? The last statement about what "should" be makes not difference as it does not change what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted January 25, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, Daily Bread said: How does the water and the blood agree? They can't so what you post as what "should" be is proven incorrect by yourself. 1 John 5:8 reads - "the spirit and the water and the blood and the three into the one are"; scripture does not say they agree, but the translations do for easier reading. By trying to remove the Holy Spirit, you are making a pretzel of scripture. You should be careful of this. You should include the previous verses into your reading to have a better understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted January 25, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, Daily Bread said: Scripture sure says they do.The previous verse as I said were added later by men trying to prove the trinity and the person of the Holy Spirit. It was never a part of teaching in the early Church. Paul certainly did not introduce his epistles to the Holy Spirit but to God the Father and Jesus. So, in a nutshell, you do not believe in the Trinity, as you claimed earlier. You sure have a lot of scripture you need to change to the power of God then. How can you justify this in Matthew 28:19 when the Greek itself says "the holy spirit", not the power of God? Yo can do what you wish, but as for me - I'll stick with what scripture tells me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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