luigi Posted February 15, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,801 Content Per Day: 1.03 Reputation: 327 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 15, 2021 14 hours ago, Waggles said: Luke chapter 21and Matthew chapter 24 should be read in parallel: various prophecies concerning the first destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD; and also in respect to the last days; and his return at the last day. Which verses are applicable to either scenario? Or does history repeat itself again? I understand your perspective that the events in the Olivet discourse are intertwined with historic events covering many generation. However, the Lord also informs us that those who witness the events the Lord describes in the whole of the Olivet discourse, shall not perish before the end of the current world order under Satan comes to a close. I therefore choose to believe the beginning of sorrows events in the Olivet discourse in which wars, rumors of wars, pestilences, earthquakes, and where brother turns in brother, and parents turn in children, and children turn in parents unto the death, are all a single generation events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted February 15, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 15, 2021 5 hours ago, luigi said: I therefore choose to believe the beginning of sorrows events in the Olivet discourse in which wars, rumors of wars, pestilences, earthquakes, and where brother turns in brother, and parents turn in children, and children turn in parents unto the death, are all a single generation events. Matt 24:3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” Luke 21:27 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Luk 21:28 Now when these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.” Luk 21:32 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all has taken place. Luk 21:33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. In verse 27 Jesus is unequivocally telling his disciples about His return - the second coming of Christ - then in verse 32 he states that this 'generation' will not pass away until all has taken place. Obviously there are not 2,000 year old Jews who are alive and have witnessed the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. The word for generation - γενεά genea - has a few related meanings not just those alive at present. See Thayer's Greek Words. Given the slaughter of the Jews of Judah (over a million maybe two million) and the enslavement of another million or so, Jesus is indicating that the Jews as a people will survive [and by implication return to Jerusalem to witness yet again what will happen in the last days]. In fact the Jews will not pass away until ALL these things have passed both 70AD and the restoration of Israel as a nation and in the last days nations coming against Jerusalem > Armageddon, etc. The LORD will save a remnant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted February 15, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,801 Content Per Day: 1.03 Reputation: 327 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 15, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Waggles said: Obviously there are not 2,000 year old Jews who are alive and have witnessed the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. The word for generation - γενεά genea - has a few related meanings not just those alive at present. See Thayer's Greek Words. Given the slaughter of the Jews of Judah (over a million maybe two million) and the enslavement of another million or so, Jesus is indicating that the Jews as a people will survive [and by implication return to Jerusalem to witness yet again what will happen in the last days]. In fact the Jews will not pass away until ALL these things have passed both 70AD and the restoration of Israel as a nation and in the last days nations coming against Jerusalem > Armageddon, etc. The LORD will save a remnant. That's a heck of a wresting of the Word Waggles to make the generation who shall not pass away before the end comes, to mean the Jewish people for the last two millennia. Edited February 15, 2021 by luigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted February 15, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 15, 2021 Just now, luigi said: That's a heck of a wresting of the Word Waggles to make the generation who shall not pass away before all the comes, to mean the Jewish people for the last two millennia. Not at all - and Jesus is referring to the last days and his second coming while talking to his disciples. G1074 γενεά genea 1) fathered, birth, nativity 2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family 2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy 2b) metaphorically a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character 2b1) especially in a bad sense, a perverse nation 3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time 4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years Luke 21:32 Amen I say unto you that this *race shall not pass away, till all be accomplished. [a more correct translation by Panin] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted February 15, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,801 Content Per Day: 1.03 Reputation: 327 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Waggles said: Not at all - and Jesus is referring to the last days and his second coming while talking to his disciples. G1074 γενεά genea 1) fathered, birth, nativity 2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family 2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy 2b) metaphorically a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character 2b1) especially in a bad sense, a perverse nation 3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time 4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years Luke 21:32 Amen I say unto you that this *race shall not pass away, till all be accomplished. [a more correct translation by Panin] I guess I'll just stick to a simple definition of generation by Jesus in the Olivet discourse to mean within an individuals lifespan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted February 15, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, luigi said: I guess I'll just stick to a simple definition of generation by Jesus in the Olivet discourse to mean within an individuals lifespan. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted February 15, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,801 Content Per Day: 1.03 Reputation: 327 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, Waggles said: Why? If the Lord wanted to make it complicated, He would have informed us that a generation would span two or more millennia. I do not believe the Lord to be an author of confusion, and I therefore believe the more common sense definition of the generation in the Olivet discourse to represent an average human lifespan. 1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted February 15, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 15, 2021 I do not find the words of Jesus confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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