What Caused the Big Bang?

[Leonardo Von]

Quote

What Caused the Big Bang?

Nothing. This theory is an absurd.

[Guest]

On 1/19/2021 at 10:23 PM, JohnD said:

I have sat amazed at the explanation of brilliant men and women

how we cannot determine what the cause was or if there was a cause

based on their claim that time did not exist until the event itself.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it a physical law that an effect

has to have a cause?

Thomas Aquinas used this and two other logical arguments to prove the existence of God.  God did not have a beginning.  He was the source of the Big Bang, the unfolding of dimensions to create the universe as we know it.  The physical laws are what they are because that's what God intended.  This all happened in Genesis 1:1.  Evolution is not part of God's plan.

(Genesis 1:1)  In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.  [ESV]

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Saved.One.by.Grace

[HAZARD]

No such thing as a big bang. 

How did God create and make the material universe? Undoubtedly, God created and made the different parts of the material universe and each thing therein, using the same care and time as in the six days when He restored the planet Earth to a habitable state and made a new order of Earth creatures. In the work of the six days, it is stated that God, with His hands FORMED each of the living creatures and man out of the dust of the ground (Gen. 1:20-27; 2: 7-25; Job 26:13; Rom. 9:20; 1 Tim. 2:13).

It is not only clear that God created the heavens, and the Earth and all things "In the beginning," or each in its own period , but it is also clear that God FORMED all things with His hands. God FORMED both light and darkness (Isa. 45:7). He did not do this in the first day of Gen. 1"3-5, for at that time He merely divided them. 

Therefore they must have been created and formed before the first day. It is also stated that God FORMED the Earth (Ps. 8:3, 6; 90:2; 95:5); the heavens (Ps. 8:3; 19:1; 102:25; Isa. 40:12) the planets (Ps. 8:3isa. 40:26; 44:12;  48:13; Heb. 1:10) and all things (Prov. 26:10).

From a study of all these Scriptures given above and those on the creation of all things, it is clear that by the Word of God the materials were brought into existence, and then by His hands He formed the materials into the various parts of the universe. That is, God spoke, the materials came into existence and as fast as they materialised He used them to form all things with His hands (Ps. 8:3; 2 Pet. 3:3-9. Prov. 26:10).

***********************************************************************************************************

Next question would be, When did God create and make the material universe and all therein?

The Bible says, "In the beginning [literally, by periods or ages] God created the heaven [Hebrew, heavens] and the Earth," it does not say "Six thousand years ago God created the heavens and the Earth," as generally taught. Can we say just when was the beginning? If we can, then we know more than God has revealed. If we cannot, then it stands to reason that we do not know, and therefore, should not teach that in the beginning was 6,000 years ago. As far as we know it could have been six billion years or more ago as well as about 6,000 years.

When we speak of the six days and the creation of the present life on Earth, we can speak with definite Bible authority that it was about 6,000 years ago. This we can see by the lengths of the various dispensations since Adam in the outline of God's plan for mankind. In no Scripture are we told to believe that the heavens and the Earth were created during the six days at the time of Adam about 6,000 years ago.

Some use Exodus 20:8-11; 31:17 to prove that the heavens and the Earth were created in the six days of Gen. 1:3-2:25, and therefore that they were created about 6,000 years ago. However, nothing is said of the original creation of the heavens and the Earth in these passages. In these passages the Hebrew asah, meaning to make out of already existing material, is used instead of bara, to create. Theseverses picture the re-creation work of the six days, and not the original creation "In the beginning." Asah never means to create. It is translated 659 times; make 449 times; maketh 59 times; makest sixteen times; maker thirteen times; amking eleven times; and madest three times. When God said, "In six days the Lord mad heaven and earth, He had in mind the restoration of the heaven (firmament, or clouds) and the Earth to a habitable state as it was before the destruction of Lucifers kingdom by the flood of Gen. 1:2.

As an aside, God was once approached by a scientist who said, “Listen God, we’ve decided we don’t need you anymore. These days we can clone people, transplant organs and do all sorts of things that used to be considered miraculous.”
God replied, “Don’t need me huh? How about we put your theory to the test. Why don’t we have a competition to see who can make a human being, say, a male human being.”
The scientist agrees, so God declares they should do it like he did in the good old days when he created Adam.
“Fine” says the scientist as he bends down to scoop up a handful of dirt.”
“Whoa!” says God, shaking his head in disapproval. “Not so fast. You make your own dirt.”

 

[Guest]

Dr. William Lane Craig

The history of the Big Bang model for well over three-quarters of a century has been one of radical predictions
repeatedly confirmed and the repeated failure of every attempt, some of them extremely speculative, to avoid the
absolute origin of the universe posited in the standard model.{58} With each failure, the theory is corroborated
anew. The defender of the kalam cosmological argument seems to be on secure ground in appropriating the Big Bang
theory as empirical confirmation of the beginning of the universe.

Source: Article –
A Swift and Simple Refutation of the Kalam Cosmological Argument

With each successive failure of alternative cosmogonic theories, the Standard Model has been corroborated. It can
be confidently said that no cosmogonic model has been as repeatedly verified in its predictions and as corroborated
by attempts at its falsification, or as concordant with empirical discoveries and as philosophically coherent,
as the Standard Big Bang Model.

Source: Article –
The Ultimate Question of Origins: God and the Beginning of the Universe

[The Barbarian]

On 8/28/2021 at 1:18 AM, HAZARD said:

When we speak of the six days and the creation of the present life on Earth, we can speak with definite Bible authority that it was about 6,000 years ago. This we can see by the lengths of the various dispensations since Adam in the outline of God's plan for mankind. In no Scripture are we told to believe that the heavens and the Earth were created during the six days at the time of Adam about 6,000 years ago.

No, since the Bible gives no timeline for creation, any attempt by man to make one for himself out of scripture is merely editing God's word to man's satisfaction.

Given that even the two genealogies for Jesus in the Bible do not agree, we can be confident that such things are meant to be figurative, not literal. 

The Bible is about God and man and our relationship.   That's enough.   Don't try to improve it by speculative pilpul.

[HAZARD]

13 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

No, since the Bible gives no timeline for creation, any attempt by man to make one for himself out of scripture is merely editing God's word to man's satisfaction.

Given that even the two genealogies for Jesus in the Bible do not agree, we can be confident that such things are meant to be figurative, not literal. 

The Bible is about God and man and our relationship.   That's enough.   Don't try to improve it by speculative pilpul.

 

I never improved or even tried to improve the Word of God. I simply gave an exact way God created the entire universe and the earth. And accusing me of Pilpul, which simply put, is a rabbinic dialectical process of “debate” or discussion by which a predetermined outcome is arrived at. It’s the Pharisaic tradition which Jesus Christ condemned calling it a “tradition of men ” which “makes void the word of God .”. Is insulting!

I gave many Scriptures to back up what I wrote, you have given not much at all, except your own personal opinion on the matter.

Do you know when "In the beginning," was?

In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth. (Gen. 1:1) 

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 
    2, The same was in the beginning with God.  (John 1:1-2).

Which was first, "In the beginning," the creation of the Heavens and the Earth or the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth, or the Word who was with God and was God?

Edited October 8, 2021 by HAZARD

[The Barbarian]

50 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

I never improved or even tried to improve the Word of God. I simply gave an exact way God created the entire universe and the earth.

Since God has not told us the "exact way" he created the universe and Earth, such a thing would necessarily be an addition to scripture.

51 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

And accusing me of Pilpul, which simply put, is a rabbinic dialectical process of “debate” or discussion by which a predetermined outcome is arrived at. 

Pretty fair description of creationism.

51 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

I gave many Scriptures to back up what I wrote

Not one of which actually says how He did it.

52 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Do you know when "In the beginning," was?

In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth.

We all get that.   The point is that creationists don't approve of the way He did it.

53 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 
    2, The same was in the beginning with God.  (John 1:1-2).

And Matthew 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

54 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Which was first, "In the beginning," the creation of the Heavens and the Earth or the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth, or the Word who was with God and was God?

Since God is eternal, the Son was there before time.

The universe and the Earth were the next beginning.

And humans came in a much later beginning.

 

[HAZARD]

18 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Since God has not told us the "exact way" he created the universe and Earth, such a thing would necessarily be an addition to scripture.

Pretty fair description of creationism.

Not one of which actually says how He did it.

We all get that.   The point is that creationists don't approve of the way He did it.

And Matthew 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

Since God is eternal, the Son was there before time.

The universe and the Earth were the next beginning.

And humans came in a much later beginning.

 

The Arc angel Lucifer ruled the first creation, he sinned, turned from God, tried to dethrone God, was defeated. God destroyed the earth in His anger, and some time later, when, we do not know, God restored the Earth to a habitable state and created Adam and Eve and placed them on the earth to rule it. Sadly they also fell.

[David1701]

On 1/23/2021 at 2:33 AM, teddyv said:

Big Bang created time. Time is an intrinsic component of the universe. Hence the term space-time.

 

The Bible does not tell us about a "Big Bang".  It does tell us that, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.  It tells us the order in which he created and over what period of time.

[The Barbarian]

2 hours ago, David1701 said:

The Bible does not tell us about a "Big Bang".

Right.  It says "Let there be light."    Which there was.   Big bang was like that, although we don't know for sure if that was the initial creation or just the universe in which we happen to live.

Most theologians think that the "days" of the creation account are not temporal or ordinal days, but rather categories of creation.   It seems American Christians generally agree with them, although creationists are a strong minority.

https://slate.com/technology/2014/12/creationism-poll-how-many-americans-believe-the-bible-is-literal-inerrant-or-symbolic.html

Edited October 9, 2021 by The Barbarian