Religion is Based on Authority, Science on Observation, Science Works!

[Who me]

On 2/5/2021 at 8:58 PM, Uber Genius said:

so why would we trust religious claims?

Seems to me science makes far more claims based on ' authority' then ever Christianity has made.

 

If science is as dependable and as ' scientific ' as you are claiming why haven't scientists been prepared to argue there case.

There have been atheist conventions where they have been challenged by Christians to debate science.

The Christians have challenged atheism to present there experts and the Christians would have an ' expert' qualified in that field to debate them. Terms shared video copies available to each side, costs to be shared, a mutually acceptable chairman etc.

 

Guess who were so unsure of there arguements that they would not meet the Christians.

Even Ken Ham, wh is not a scientist they would not meet.

 

Here is a final thought.

 

An atheism explain why science and reason works?  They are dependant on a Christian world view for there understanding of why it works.

[Uber Genius]

On 2/5/2021 at 7:07 PM, LearningToLetGo said:

I've seen enough in the last twelve months to know that EVERYTHING is religion.

I wouldn't demean "Religion," by associating it with the destruction of the much-defamed great former Republic known as the US of A. 

But I take your point that the misconstrued notion that religion is just a strongly-held subjective belief that can't possibly be justified, and is completely subjective, is a good representation of belief system behind the leftist uprising.

[Uber Genius]

On 2/5/2021 at 4:17 PM, BK1110 said:

John Lennox is probably the best thinker/speaker on these issues

Bravo! J.P. Moreland, also William Lane Craig have helpful material as well.

[Uber Genius]

4 hours ago, Who me said:

Does atheism explain why science and reason works?  They are dependant on a Christian world view for there understanding of why it works.

Now this is an intriquing concept! Please explain further?

[Uber Genius]

On 2/5/2021 at 4:17 PM, BK1110 said:

Indeed if our own brains are the product of blind chance and randomness, we shouldn't trust them to even do science in the first place.

Bravo again, EAAN by Plantinga, for the win!

Further, what happens if we use an abductio ad absurdum approach assuming Hawking appeals to scientism and the reduction of all knowledge claims to be invalid with the exception of physical descriptions in science?

Besides having our senses as faculties to perceive the world around us we have:

introspection (examining our inner thought life and emotional states)

testimony

memory

rationality

what other knowledge do we give up on Hawking physicalism? 

Say goodbye to history, psychology, sociology, economics, and all sciences that involve having researchers using memory or testimony or examining inner thoughts. 

Quickly one sees how Hawking's approach is self-defeating. Philosophy is dead on arrival but all science requires philosophy of science as its base. This is Lennox's approach.

[Uber Genius]

On 2/5/2021 at 6:04 PM, johnthebaptist said:

Stephen Hawking was arguably the brightest scientitst? How did you arrive at that? I think both of his claims are in error. First of all, religion is based on love, not on authority. (The two great commandments are to love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself.) As for science working, they still can't find a mathematical equation that works for both quantum mechanics and the universe as a whole, yet somehow God managed to create them both, didn't he? Go figure. Or maybe you think all his just magically appeared, including you and me.

I may have been playing devil's advocate here. 

What Hawking is doing is creating a straw man with sweeping generalizations that misrepresent the nature of religious knowledge. 

Religious knowledge is based on a number of things:

testimony about religious encounters

memory of experiences that are then the basis of testimony

intropection, examining thoughts and using our imagination to underhand the world)

rationality - a rigorous thing process evidenced in authors describing causal chains throughout religious scripture, and enabling the various world religions to Ben compared against the real world for truth-value and coherence.

Hawking misses all of those points. Hawking doesn't even recognize that he is resting his science on an incoherent philosophical view that all that exists and can be known are at base physical objects and their reactions. 

Yet he uses the same methods religious knowledge claims use! 

Hawking is a philosophical idiot. 

[Uber Genius]

On 2/5/2021 at 7:18 PM, Hopefully said:

I think scientists have the same faith In science that we have in Jesus.

I might put it, "Science uses the same human faculties (senses, introspection, memory, testimony, rationality), to know scientific truths as religion uses to know religious truths."

[LearningToLetGo]

1 hour ago, Uber Genius said:

But I take your point that the misconstrued notion that religion is just a strongly-held subjective belief that can't possibly be justified, and is completely subjective, is a good representation of belief system behind the leftist uprising.

That's not exactly what I meant. My point is simply that humans cling to their beliefs, including scientific ones. Attacking a person's beliefs is tantamount to attacking the person. Thus camps form. We've witnessed this in abundant detail last year, be it virus related or social structure or economics or conspiracies, etc. People yearn to be a part of something greater than themselves and if they don't get that from a traditional faith they will invent it in a non-traditional one, including faith in science.

[johnthebaptist]

1 hour ago, Uber Genius said:

I may have been playing devil's advocate here. 

What Hawking is doing is creating a straw man with sweeping generalizations that misrepresent the nature of religious knowledge. 

Religious knowledge is based on a number of things:

testimony about religious encounters

memory of experiences that are then the basis of testimony

intropection, examining thoughts and using our imagination to underhand the world)

rationality - a rigorous thing process evidenced in authors describing causal chains throughout religious scripture, and enabling the various world religions to Ben compared against the real world for truth-value and coherence.

Hawking misses all of those points. Hawking doesn't even recognize that he is resting his science on an incoherent philosophical view that all that exists and can be known are at base physical objects and their reactions. 

Yet he uses the same methods religious knowledge claims use! 

Hawking is a philosophical idiot. 

Any atheist is lacking in ...  something. The best way to know God exists is to engage in constant prayer, as Paul teaches us to do (1 Thessalonians 5:17), and get to know him (remembering that prayer is listening as well as speaking). God solves all my problems for me - that pretty much proves his existence, doesn't it?

[Uber Genius]

2 hours ago, LearningToLetGo said:

That's not exactly what I meant. My point is simply that humans cling to their beliefs, including scientific ones. Attacking a person's beliefs is tantamount to attacking the person. Thus camps form. We've witnessed this in abundant detail last year, be it virus related or social structure or economics or conspiracies, etc. People yearn to be a part of something greater than themselves and if they don't get that from a traditional faith they will invent it in a non-traditional one, including faith in science.

Yep. People cling to false beliefs. 

I start out my discipleship classes with a statement, "I know I have false beliefs, I just don't know where they are!" And then we start a 6-week journey on  how to discover our false beliefs and replace them with true ones. I use my own historical false beliefs as bad examples. 

And I intuited that my references weren't exactly likely to hit the mark of someone from the Pacific Northwest. But love to hear someone reference the clinging to their beliefs. And agree that these false beliefs don't seem to hover just in economic, sociological, or political areas, but every area of human knowledge. Thanks.