Uber Genius Posted February 5, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 36 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 657 Content Per Day: 0.33 Reputation: 244 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2021 Stephen Hawking was arguably the brightest scientist. His claims appear to both be true, so why would we trust religious claims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK1110 Posted February 5, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 6,873 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 9,611 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/18/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/10/1986 Share Posted February 5, 2021 John Lennox is probably the best thinker/speaker on these issues. As he points out, the only reason early scientists like Newton and Kepler pursued science, is because of their belief in God. The expected law in nature because they believed it was created by an intelligent law-giver. If the universe is the product of blind chance and randomness, then there's no reason to expect it to be intelligible and ordered. Indeed if our own brains are the product of blind chance and randomness, we shouldn't trust them to even do science in the first place. Not to mention that Hawking's quote is painting with a broad brush, lumping all religions into a group that he then labels as not being based on observation and reason, which the Bible in many places tells us to look to nature as observable and reasonable evidence of God's existence and work. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted February 6, 2021 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.31 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted February 6, 2021 2 hours ago, Uber Genius said: Stephen Hawking was arguably the brightest scientist. His claims appear to both be true, so why would we trust religious claims? Stephen Hawking was arguably the brightest scientitst? How did you arrive at that? I think both of his claims are in error. First of all, religion is based on love, not on authority. (The two great commandments are to love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself.) As for science working, they still can't find a mathematical equation that works for both quantum mechanics and the universe as a whole, yet somehow God managed to create them both, didn't he? Go figure. Or maybe you think all his just magically appeared, including you and me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LearningToLetGo Posted February 6, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 717 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 660 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/21/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted February 6, 2021 4 hours ago, Uber Genius said: Stephen Hawking was arguably the brightest scientist. His claims appear to both be true, so why would we trust religious claims? I've seen enough in the last twelve months to know that EVERYTHING is religion. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopefully Posted February 6, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,323 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 1,465 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/07/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 6, 2021 I think scientists have the same faith In science that we have in Jesus. They say science is based on observation but who’s observation? I have never traveled a light year to verify that it’s 6 trillion miles nor have I ever traveled or seen anything travel at the speed of light to verify it’s ~368k miles per second, and I have never traveled to any other planet to verify the elements are what we are told they are. All I have are books/pictures that say so. I’d just have to believe those things are true because a few people say so. I’ll choose to have faith in Jesus and it’s man I need proof from. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studytheword Posted February 6, 2021 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 19 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/01/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted February 6, 2021 6 hours ago, Uber Genius said: Stephen Hawking was arguably the brightest scientist. His claims appear to both be true, so why would we trust religious claims? I think that the secular understanding of religion is one and the same as science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristen Posted February 6, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,367 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 1,340 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/26/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 6, 2021 Hi UG, “Science will win” what? The quote falsely implies that religion and science are necessarily mutually exclusive – that is a False Dichotomy. When was the Big Bang observed – or Cosmological Inflation, or evolution from a common ancestor? That is, how is he defining “science”? There is no logical conflict between Christianity and operational “science” (a.k.a. the Scientific Method). But historical modelling (a different method) relies more on faith assumptions, than actual observations of the claims/stories/models. Therefore, such a use of the term “science” is a blatant Equivocation. An Unsupported Assertion mixed with Innuendo (fallacy combo ) is used to insinuate that Christians (or the religious) do not utilise “reason”. To be fair, no context is given to assess whether or not he supported his claim. Why does he assume observation itself can be trusted (how does he know we are not in the Matrix)? How can that be verified independently of faith? Why should we assume that the universe operates in a rationally-ordered manner; such that observations from repeated experimentation has rational meaning? Does he know that these faith assumptions (which are logically necessary for for the Scientific Method) originate historically in the Christian world view – whereby God created the natural universe to follow rules (a.k.a. natural laws). Your allusion to Hawking being “the brightest scientist” is a soft Appeal to Authority We do not “trust religious claims”. We trust God – with Whom we have experiential fellowship. We also note that the facts/observations are eminently consistent with the Biblical model of reality. Therefore our faith is entirely rational. In conclusion, the quote (in its current format and context) is saturated with logic fallacies, and contains nothing of rational substance to rebut or defend – and therefore fails to meet the fundamental standard of a rational argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwalker Posted February 7, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 1,753 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/09/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 7, 2021 On 2/5/2021 at 12:58 PM, Uber Genius said: Stephen Hawking was arguably the brightest scientist. His claims appear to both be true, so why would we trust religious claims? And who has seen evolution "work" and who observed the big bang, and where is the proof that life erupted spontaneously from a fart in a puddle of primordial ooze. Science that is not observed, tested and verified, is not science fact. Its a wild guess. putting together separate pieces of information and constructing your desired results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted February 7, 2021 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 241 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 6,946 Content Per Day: 3.27 Reputation: 4,868 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted February 7, 2021 On 2/6/2021 at 9:58 AM, Uber Genius said: Stephen Hawking was arguably the brightest scientist. It depends on whose word you follow, man's or God's . . . Psa 14:1 The fool has said in his heart,"There is no God." Heb 3:12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 7, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 7, 2021 Half full / half empty. Even science is subject to human bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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