God places it on our hearts ,when we are to apologise.

[johnthebaptist]

1 minute ago, Josheb said:

Apologies? or confessions? 

Which is better?

1) I apologize for the way I said you were horrible and a horrible person with evil motive and I doubt your salvation and your knowing the Holy Spirit.

or 

2) I confess what I posted was wrong both about your person and obedience to our Father's word and I deeply regret having posted those words; I will purpose not to repeat that error and it is my hope I will be forgiven. 

Which do you think best relieves us of a whole lot of unpleasantness? 

Which do you think best changes the heart?

Which do you think best repairs relationship?

 

Seriously, john, I am genuinely interested in your answers.

I think either would be fine, though your #2 went into more detail, didn't it?

[johnthebaptist]

1 minute ago, Josheb said:

 

Is it being assumed an apology is God's will? Is it being assumed apologizing for every selfish act is all that falls within God's will? 

I'd rather be found praising God and worshiping him with heart, mind, soul, and strength . Presumably, if I did more of that I'd have less apologizing to do .  

I don't believe I said God requires us to apologize.

[johnthebaptist]

4 minutes ago, Josheb said:

I believe it a more accurate reflection of scripture. 

 

How about this: 

1) I apologize for having sex with that woman (or man). 

2) I deeply regret having had sex with that woman (or man) and breaking our marriage covenant. I am filled with sorrow over the pain I have caused you and it is my heart's desire never to repeat that sin and pursue the restitution of your heart and trust and my commitment to you and you alone. I hope you will forgive me. 

If you cheat on your wife, I'm not sure either would suffice.

[OneLight]

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

There are other forms of bondage beside pride (such as shame) that stop and expression of sorrow for wrongdoing, and repentance. 

Shame may be the resulting feeling of an action, but pride stops them from apologizing.

Edited February 28, 2021 by OneLight
removed extra words ... oops.

[Marathoner]

On 2/25/2021 at 1:33 PM, clancy said:

First to God then to the brother/ sister we upset and hurt.

 

someone told me, God doesn’t do that....and it’s from the pit of hell?

God is not a man; He does not lie nor change His mind. 

God is not a man, that He would lie,
Nor a son of man, that He would change His mind;
Has He said, and will He not do it?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
(Numbers 23:19 NASB)

But we are not the Lord, for we do in fact lie and change our minds. Whoever told you this lacks understanding, sister. What did the Lord Himself say? "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" and also, "First make peace with your brother, and then come present your offering." (Matthew 5:9 and  5:24). 

Making amends --- reconciliation --- is not from the "pit of hell." It's beautiful and pleases the Lord.  

Edited February 28, 2021 by Marathoner

[popsthebuilder]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

 

Is it being assumed an apology is God's will? Is it being assumed apologizing for every selfish act is all that falls within God's will? 

I'd rather be found praising God and worshiping him with heart, mind, soul, and strength . Presumably, if I did more of that I'd have less apologizing to do .  

It is not assumption that we are to be humble and not proud, caring for one another and placing the needs of another over our own. If there is a real need for an apology then there was sin against another. The apology could also be part of repentance. Hard to turn from a specific sin if you can't even admit to wrong doing.

Edited February 28, 2021 by popsthebuilder

[Guest clancy]

8 hours ago, Josheb said:

Just so the readers know.....

 

This op was prompted by an exchange in which this op's author posted a personal attack and was sanctioned by the mods who, according to clancy, prohibited him from posting further in that thread. Clancy erred and the the error was addressed by the mods. In response I, the poster who'd previously been attacked, was PMed with an apology. The apology was, "I apologise for the way I spoke to you on the thread." In other words, there is no apology for what was said, only the way it was said. My response was lengthy (no surprise to most of you ) but it can be summarized in a single sentence: I don't find the apology valuable unless or until I read evidence of change in future posts. I then expounded on the importance of repentance (change) over apology. I explained what I did because this poster has personally attacked me and other in the forum on more than one occasion and has yet to change. The response to my request for observable repentance was And because the poster herself (himself?) disclosed she was sanctioned I have no way of knowing whether the apology came as a consequence of the sanction or whether or not it was in submission to God (could be both).  That dear readers is what's behind this op.  

I am happy to post the entire set of PMs into the forum, if clancy permits, for all to read because the op quote mines. I never said, "God doesn't do that... and it's from the pit of hell."  What I did do was to send him two responses one short and the other lengthy. The first one, in its entirety reads, 

"There will not be further conversations with you if I do not read changes, clancy. This is not the first time I have been personally attacked in the forum by you. This was not the first time I asked for change. 

 

Apologies are not scriptural. They are a fine cultural convention commonly used in situations like this but they are not what the New Testament Church practiced. The only apology found in the NT is when non-believers abuse Christians unjustly and then apologize. The scripturally directed response to one's own wrongdoing is repentance. When I read 

evidence of change I will believe the regret implicit in an apology and have some reason things will be different no matter what or how I post. 

 

I forgave the wrongdoing when it happened so be free of it. 

 

J~"

That was my original reply. In its entirety. 

The response I received was, in part, the title of this op, "God places on our hearts, when we are to apologise...." along with comments about her difficulty concentrating, God not scolding, moving on after saying sorry, and a final comment about others holding on to hurt. I am happy to post the entire set of exchanges for all to read with clancy's consent because the exchange is not being accurately portrayed.

In a third reply, after receiving resistance to an exhortation for observable repentance, I wrote, "No, God does not place apologies on our hearts. That is a lie from the pit of hell and you need to look at God's word, not social conventions  of the world," and I encouraged clancy to search the scriptures herself to verify what I messaged.  That is the context of the "pit of hell" comment. Later I went on to cite and explain what scripture directs: confession, repentance, restitution or amends, forgiveness, and reconciliation. I explicitly stated, "If and when a change in the posts' contents changes the the exchanges between us will change and that will provide the reconciliation. That is what scripture teaches. That is what I hope ensues between us." and I concluded the lengthier of the two responses with, "Can we find at least some modicum of agreement with scripture regarding these things? If so then I look forward to reading your posts. Do not settle for the conventions of the world. Practice God's word. Repent; don't just apologize." 

 

I accept the reality apologies are the accepted and common social convention. I called clancy to a higher standard; the standard of scripture. The original tou-violating post in which I my character was maligned and malevolent motive and practice were assigned to me appears to have been deleted  (you all know how I am about evidence ). I'd post it if I could find it so everyone in this discussion will know what clancy did to prompt this op. Clancy has trashed me in the forum more than once and has not changed despite many requests to do so.

Does anyone here find an apology followed by subsequent wrongdoing authentic?

Does anyone here believe that is the kind of apology God lies on a believer's heart? 

 

Here's my reply to the op: 

 

• An "apology," like "I apologize for the way I spoke to you on the thread," is not scriptural. 
• According to the New Testament scriptures the only time in the KJV or NAS you'll find "apology," "apologize," or "sorry," is Mark 6:26 in which Herod is exceedingly sorrowful for his promise to give his daughter whatever she wanted. The only think approximating an apology comes after the apostles are wrongly imprisoned and then released with regrets. 
• The scripturally-directed response when we do wrong is to confess the wrongdoing, purpose to make changes (repent), make amends where possible and appropriate, seek (or give) forgiveness, and pursue reconciliation.

 

Appeals to "The Holy Spirit made me do it," can be just as misguided and potentially more damaging as "The devil made me do it," and one of the ways to measure that is God's written word. I am happy to expound upon that with plenty of supporting scripture for any poster interested in a deeper understanding of how to handle our own wrongdoing and repair broken fellowship. 

However, in this op the salient point of my dissent is simple: God does not lay on His childrens' hearts things that are not consistent with His word - His incarnate Word, or His written word - rhema never contradict logos. and especially not in favor of worldly conventions at the expense of a more scriptural effective alternative. And I am happy to clarify, expound upon,  explain and/or defend that view, too. 

 

 

So....... if there is any agreement with what I have just posted then please help clancy understand the inadequacy of the apology given, the veracity and efficacy of a more scriptural alternative, and help her understand my hearts desire is two-fold: 1) reconciliation and 2) no more personal attacks. 

 

Because when I read this op what I read was a gross misrepresentation of the PMs. What I read was..... the wrongdoing has not stopped.  And I truly hope that wasn't intentional. 

 

 

.
 

I am also very happy to post the pms that you sent to ....very happy indeed too.

 

i will type them word for word..as I don’t know how to copy and post.

 

the first ,part of the op was from you....to me.

 

you said God doesn’t place apologies on our heart.

 

by the way I never sent those words to you...my words were completely different,so you twisted my words.

 

you also told me..that what I said was from the “ pit of hell” right or wrong?

i wanted to make this thread anonymous....because those words shocked me.coming from a Born Again..

[Guest clancy]

Josheb...please post my pm....then I will post mine from you in parts as it is so long...and I don’t know how to copy and paste...so yes, please post my pm from me to you.

[Guest clancy]

7 hours ago, Marathoner said:

God is not a man; He does not lie nor change His mind. 

God is not a man, that He would lie,
Nor a son of man, that He would change His mind;
Has He said, and will He not do it?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
(Numbers 23:19 NASB)

But we are not the Lord, for we do in fact lie and change our minds. Whoever told you this lacks understanding, sister. What did the Lord Himself say? "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" and also, "First make peace with your brother, and then come present your offering." (Matthew 5:9 and  5:24). 

Making amends --- reconciliation --- is not from the "pit of hell." It's beautiful and pleases the Lord.  

To apologise is an act of peacemaking...so God placed that on my heart......I was told by Josheb....that God doesn’t place apologies on our hearts

He twisted my words,I never said that.he placed “ apologies on my heart”...

i said God placed it on my heart to apologise to you.

In other words to make peace....which is scriptural.

he then proceeded to reply, that apologies were from the pit of hell.

 

that is why I started this thread,because I was shocked at his reply.

 

God placed it on my heart to apologise to him...apologise is an act of peacemaking, therefore scriptural...I then got back...from Josheb....that it was from the pit of hell.

 

can I also post your pm to me joshed..in its entirety..it’s very very long...so will do it in parts...is that ok?

 

like I can post part 1..part 2 etc of your first message.....then maybe I can get more understanding from it...from other members?

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by clancy

[Guest clancy]

8 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

I don't believe I said God requires us to apologize.

To apologise is an act of peacemaking...which is scriptural...so disagree....we are to apologise.....therefore make peace...then our fellowship is back on track with God....