In HEAVEN, in HEAVENLY BODIES, living with CHRIST, RIGHT NOW

[DeighAnn]

On 3/2/2021 at 11:49 AM, missmuffet said:

Souls are in heaven right now. Their bodies are in the grave waiting to be resurrected with the soul. 

Hi Miss,
Yes they are in heaven right now!!   

And with what body were those souls raised?  Those 'heavenly' ones.  Just as we have born the earthy, we will bear the heavenly, AT LEAST THAT IS WHAT IS WRITTEN.  

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?


1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Amazing how many won't/can't see something so clear.  Not written in language hard to understand.  How much easier could it have been written.  I always ask if there was no 'heavenly' body why would we be told there was?  If there is a heavenly body why IN HEAVEN WOULD WE NOT USE IT.  

We look in a mirror and see the earth body.  Then we go to heaven and what?  Keep OUR HEAVENLY BODY just hanging in the closet waiting for returning to earth?  Doesn't basic common sense STATE on earth in earthy, in heaven in heavenly. 

HOW THAT EVER GOT 'mixed' up to where it became some 'CONFUSING' issue doesn't even require a guess does it?  God isn't the author of confusion, that would be the adversary. 

I think back to Adam and Eve.  God said.  Satan said.  They believed Satans lie over Gods Truth. We think WE WOULD NEVER HAVE DONE THAT BUT look here again..

IT IS WRITTEN
 It is sown a natural body;

it is raised a spiritual body.  HOW SAY SOME  'NO IT ISN'T'?  OR NOT TILL LATER??


There is a natural body,

and there is a spiritual body.  HOW SAY SOME THERE ISN'T ONE

OR THERE ISN'T ONE 'UNTIL....'?

 And as we have borne the image of the earthy,

we shall also bear the image of the heavenly  HOW SAY SOME 'NO WE WON'T UNTIL.....'? 

 
ONLY WAY THE RICH MAN COULD SEE AND KNOW LAZARUS.  Some say it was a parable but that requires that all spoken was a parable (and since when aren't parables TRUTH?) and all spoken clearly wasn't.  SO WHO IS SAYING IT WAS or wasn't and more importantly WHY?


And if we missed it in 1 Corinth, we got more info in 2...

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 Corinthians 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

SO WHY ARE SOME SAYING 'NOT TO BE CLOTHED WITH OUR HOUSE' FROM HEAVEN?

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Back to this because some say all that CANT take place until this happens

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

But if we remember correctly  
"we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep"  

In other words there are MANY MANY MANY who have received their immortality.  Think Abraham, Moses, Enoch, Elijah, Isaac, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Matthew.....they don't have/didn't have to wait for a 'last day'.  God is the God of the living.  

D

[DeighAnn]

I did not realize the ONLY time a 'LAST DAY' is spoken of,  is BEFORE CHRIST CRUCIFIED and only in the book of John have I found it so far.  Anyone know of any others?  So with that in mind, 

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you:

for Him hath God the Father sealed.
 

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

OMG, WORKS? and no mention of OSASed and the GIFT of salvation? How could it be?  QUICK, someone, make sure EVERYONE HEARS it yet AGAIN,

YOU CAN'T WORK FOR THE FREE GIFT.  (Not that you could anyhow, as it is given BEFORE any works could be done, so comes in on the back side with NO WORK to KEEP SALVATION, AKA no works are needed aka Jesus does it all through us, aka we have no responsibility and as Jesus did it perfect anyway and we can't don't need to try aka  no belief that the Holy Spirit makes it possible, no wonder not taught as doctrine)

Make sure it is repeated again and again so that all the little lambs QUESTION THEIR every MOTIVE ALL THE TIME so that NO WORK will ever be 'just good and right and for the love of the Lord' and will ALWAYS BE CALLED INTO QUESTION as to the WHY.  I digress. 


John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto Him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost Thou work?

John 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

John 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

John 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

John 6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to Me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on Me shall never thirst.

John 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth Me shall come to Me; and him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

ANY TIME PERIOD put forth? see anything on 'the last day of the age' or 'the return of Christ' or 'the end if the millennium'?  What fits really well is the last day of that persons life in the flesh.
  
(we are told He was going to the right hand of God, which is in heaven, and was going to prepare a place for us, for us to be where He was)

which would mean THERE ARE SAINTS IN HEAVEN WAY BEFORE mans 'pre trib rapt theory' says there are and ANOTHER REASON FOR NO PRE TRIB BEING NEEDED) 
 

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

'THE LAST DAY'. Does this read like 'ALL the dead, decaying and returning to dust are resurrected' being addressed ANYWHERE in this chapter??  

TRUE, it has been pointed out that this 'and the dead in Christ shall rise first' is this last day 

BUT
THAT LEAVES ALL THOSE who died 'NOT IN CHRIST' hanging in complete limbo and all those who received THE MARK OF THE BEAST with the SAME FATE as the  'alive and remaining', WHICH ISN'T POSSIBLE BECAUSE 1st, they need A FIRST DEATH and 2nd they DO NOT KNOW if they will be a part of the 2nd resurrection yet. 
Not that anyone else sees the problems with this, I digress again.  

John 6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.

John 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

John 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

John 6:44 No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Still not the slightest hint at this being a 'LAST DAY' of an age and/or a RESURRECTION OF ALL, all AT ONCE'.   

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto Me.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 6:48 I am that bread of life.

John 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

John 6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

NO PERIOD OF 'SLEEPING/DECAYING/WAITING/DEATH/lifelessness/not breathing'

John 6:52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

John 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in Me, and I in him.

John 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by Me.

John 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

John 6:59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

John 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

CAN YOU?

John 6:61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

WHY I CONTINUE TO HARP ON USING only 'GODS WORDS' AND 'WHAT IS WRITTEN' as opposed to mans explanations and 'what is meant'? because only GODS WORDS, 'WHAT IS WRITTEN', are life,  
and those that EXPLAIN 'what HE meant' and doctrines not found written AS SUCH, are not Gods words but words of God that have been 'piecemealed together' to make them 'seem' like it.   

Precept on precept verse by verse here and there a little, 
THE ONLY WAY TO LEARN GODS TRUTH. 
 

John 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?

I don't know what 'last day' MARTHA was referring to but CHRIST DID NOT in anyway, acknowledge it as a BIG 'the end'
BUT instead told us

HE IS THE RESURRECTION
AND THE LIFE
AND WHOSOEVER LIVETH
AND BELIEVETH IN HIM
SHALL NEVER DIE.  

I BELIEVE THIS.  DO YOU?  
 

John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
 

John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

NOW THIS ONE...???  But I think it is at THE Throne Judgment   D

 

[Selah7]

33 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

'THE LAST DAY'. Does this read like 'ALL the dead, decaying and returning to dust are resurrected' being addressed ANYWHERE in this chapter??  

TRUE, it has been pointed out that this 'and the dead in Christ shall rise first' is this last day 

BUT
THAT LEAVES ALL THOSE who died 'NOT IN CHRIST' hanging in complete limbo and all those who received THE MARK OF THE BEAST with the SAME FATE as the  'alive and remaining', WHICH ISN'T POSSIBLE BECAUSE 1st, they need A FIRST DEATH and 2nd they DO NOT KNOW if they will be a part of the 2nd resurrection yet. 

Hello, D.  

My understanding here is that “the last day” is referring to the final day of this age.  John 6:40, where it says, “Everyone which seeth the Son and believeth on Him, may have eternal life” is the fulfillment of John 3:16.  This is talking about the Election.

John 6:44 "No man can come to Me, except the Father Which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:47 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on Me hath everlasting life."

"Everlasting life” is life from the time it was first created (before the foundation of the world), continuing through this present age and right into the eternity!  Very awesome!

selah . . .

[DeighAnn]

11 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

Hello, D.  

My understanding here is that “the last day” is referring to the final day of this age.  John 6:40, where it says, “Everyone which seeth the Son and believeth on Him, may have eternal life” is the fulfillment of John 3:16.  This is talking about the Election.

John 6:44 "No man can come to Me, except the Father Which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:47 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on Me hath everlasting life."

"Everlasting life” is life from the time it was first created (before the foundation of the world), continuing through this present age and right into the eternity!  Very awesome!

selah . . .

HI Selah, 

Long time, how are you??  

I do understand that everyone believes that there is a 'mass' resurrection on the 'last day' of all souls who have ever lived and died but I just 

don't.

I believe that when I die I go straight to heaven to 'be where HE is'.  IF there were to be ANYTHING about a 'last day'  and a 'raising' up, it would be to a 'military' type of ranking but not a 'my body comes back to life having been decaying in the ground for the past 2000 years.  

I believe when my flesh body dies,  the 'carcass' goes into the ground and I return to God and it is CHRIST that I see as He receives me and I receive my immortality at that time also.  Not really any different than those who will  be alive when Christ returns, and are 'transformed/changed' (shedding the carcass, releasing the spiritual body and receiving immortality to be ever with the Lord) and meeting those who have returned with Christ (me) in the air.  


How can I DIE if I have eaten the bread of LIFE?  

How can DEATH hold me for ANY AMOUNT OF TIME if I have been rendered/washed clean, made SINLESS through the blood of the Lamb? 

thou sowest not that body that shall be.   SO WHAT IS BEING RESURRECTED thousands of years later?

The spirit returns to God who gave it?  SO WHAT IS BEING RESURRECTED thousands of years later?

The graves WERE OPENED, THE dead came out. 

It is funny how 'different' I read this.  But I will do it again my way and then do it as I believe you are saying it should be read.  


AS I SEE IT

Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

Going a tiny bit deep here.  GOD DOES EVERYTHING by LAWS.  Everything runs by laws.  Even DEATH has rules.  That is how ONE MAN could cause the WHOLE LAW ON LIFE AND DEATH TO CHANGE AND ANOTHER MAN COULD CHANGE THE WHOLE LAW AGAIN.  BUT laws pertain to ALL or everything under them.  ARE WE told there was A LAW that changed  AT THAT TIME?   YES 
 

Romans 8:2 For

THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE
IN CHRIST JESUS 

HATH MADE ME FREE FROM
THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH.  

SINCE THE LAW OF LIFE HAS SET ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF DEATH, WHY WOULD I EVER THINK I WOULD 'DIE' JUST BECAUSE THE FLESH CARCASS CARRYING ME AROUND DID??  It makes no sense ESPECIALLY since I HAVE ANOTHER way better, non corruptible body.  


 

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh,  GOD SENDING HIS OWN SON  in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?  WE FOLLOW THE LAW PERFECTLY BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB IN THE EYES OF THE LAW.  HENCE NO DEATH OF ANY PART OF US OTHER THAN THE PART THAT GOES BACK TO THE DUST FROM WHERE IT CAME.  WE ARE PILGRAMS AND SOJOURNERS HERE.  THIS IS NOT OUR NATURAL STATE.  

Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

SO THERE IS NO DEATH IN MY SOUL/SPIRIT BUT ONLY IN THE FLESH THAT CARRIES IT AROUND AND I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT GOING INTO THE EARTH FOR EVER AND EVER, IT JUST ISN'T 'TAKING ME WITH IT' NOT FOR ANY AMOUNT OF TIME.  

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

SINCE I AM NOT IN THE FLESH ALREADY, THE FLESH DYING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME EXCEPT FOR SETTING ME FREE.  

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

THE ONLY REASON I AM STILL HERE IN THIS FLESH IS  THAT GOD HAS NOT TAKEN MY SPIRIT/SOUL BACK TO HEAVEN.  BUT WHEN HE DOES, THIS FLESH WILL DROP TO THE GROUND AS I GO TO HEAVEN.  

WHY DO WE NOT FEAR ANYONE WHO CAN 'KILL' OUR FLESH?  BECAUSE THEY CAN'T TOUCH 'THE REAL US'.  SURE, THEY can make us feel 'pain' for a bit but not forever and WHAT EVER THEY DO COMES BACK ON THEM in ways we can't even understand and as for US to whom these things happen GOD RECOMPENSES.  Just KNOWING THAT makes NOTHING and EVERYTHING PERFECT.  

THAT ALONE SETS US FREE FROM THE EVIL OF THIS WORLD.  AND IF WE HAVE COME TO THAT KNOWLEDGE THEN WE KNOW WE HAVE GODS PROTECTION AND WISDOM AND WHEN NEEDED WE ARE GIVEN POWER OVER THE ENEMY.  AND WHAT COMES NEXT?  THINGS TO WONDERFUL TO EVEN IMAGINE IS WHAT GOD HAS WAITING FOR THOSE WHO TRULY LOVE HIM.  AND THERE ISN'T A THING SATAN CAN DO TO US NOW OR LATER, UNLESS WE ALLOW IT.  
 

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies (MAKE ALIVE/BRING ABOUT OUR IMMORTALITY) by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Romans 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are THE SONS OF GOD. 
We may not be 'the only begotten' but we are 'SONS' none the less.  


 

Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear;

THE BONDAGE WHICH CONSISTS IN DECAY  (Winers Grammar, § 59, 8 a., cf. Buttmann, 78 (68)), 
equivalent to the law, the necessity, of perishing,
Romans 8:21; used of the slavish sense of fear,
devoid alike of buoyancy of spirit and of trust in God,
such as is produced by the thought of death

GOT that straight from biblehub  Strongs Greek 1397.  

 but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
 

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; IF SO BE THAT WE SUFFER WITH HIM THAT WE MAY BE ALSO GLORIFIED TOGETHER 

Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

 

BEFORE CHRIST GAVE UP THE GHOST, THE DEAD STAYED DEAD.  SO FOR CHRIST TO RESURRECT FROM THE DEAD, A CHANGE IN 'LAW' SO TO SPEAK FOR WHAT HAPPENS TO THE DEAD, CHRIST NOW AMONG THEM,  HAD TO TAKE PLACE.  THE LAWS OF SIN AND DEATH HAD TO CHANGE at least for those without SIN

 

1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen
THAT IS A CHANGE IN LAW.  For it to apply to the dead Christ, it has to apply to all the dead.  It can NOT APPLY TO CHRIST ONLY.  

1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

1 Corinthians 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
IF WE WAIT TO 'BE RAISED' AT A LATER DATE THEN CHRIST MUST WAIT FOR A LATER DATE ALSO.  
 

1 Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised

AND SO WE ARE TOLD YET AGAIN, BECAUSE WE ARE EVER SO THICK.  WE LIKE WHAT WE BELIEVE TO BE TRUTH MORE THAN WE LIKE 

WHAT IS WRITTEN.  PRECEPT ON PRECEPT,  LINE ON LINE


 

1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

1 Corinthians 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

 

1Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

1Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
(and the graves opened)

1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

WHO HAS THE POWER?

GOD CREATED MAN, THERE WAS NO DEATH

SIN CAME ALONG, (Satan) SO DID DEATH

FREEDOM FROM SIN CAME (Jesus)

DEATH lost its POWER and BONDAGE




AS I BELIEVE YOU SEE IT, probably wrong AND WOULD SURE LIKE TO SEE IT THROUGH YOUR EYES

Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

There is going to be a resurrection of the dead but not till the very last day

1Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

Christ can rise now because on the very last day all will 

1Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

1Corinthians 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

He raised Him up because the dead are going to rise someday,  so it's ok

1Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

again they are going to rise someday so Christ can raise today

1Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

1Corinthians 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

They wont perish because they are going to rise someday

1Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

1Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

He is the firstfruits, and the only fruit, and will remain the only fruit until the last day

1Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

but the resurrection of the dead doesn't happen till the last day.  


So good to see you back....D

[Selah7]

41 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I believe that when I die I go straight to heaven to 'be where HE is'.

I do, too.

I certainly do not believe in soul sleep and many other things you suggest that I believe.  ???

. . .

D, your notes are toooooo long; therefore, I can’t read them. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by Selah7

[DeighAnn]

15 hours ago, Selah7 said:

I do, too.

I certainly do not believe in soul sleep and many other things you suggest that I believe.  ???

. . .

D, your notes are toooooo long; therefore, I can’t read them. 

Hi Selah,   

I thought/knew that!!! but I don't trust my memory anymore, been wrong too many times and so erred on the side of caution.  Sorry about the length,  I didn't know what other words to take out....I'll try harder next time.   Thank you Selah...D



 

[Retrobyter]

On 8/8/2021 at 7:18 PM, DeighAnn said:

HI Selah, 

Long time, how are you??  

I do understand that everyone believes that there is a 'mass' resurrection on the 'last day' of all souls who have ever lived and died but I just 

don't.

I believe that when I die I go straight to heaven to 'be where HE is'.  IF there were to be ANYTHING about a 'last day'  and a 'raising' up, it would be to a 'military' type of ranking but not a 'my body comes back to life having been decaying in the ground for the past 2000 years. 

Shalom, DeighAnn.

That's understandable since we've been so indoctrinated with that position for SO LONG! By re-defining the term "soul" and expanding the term "heaven" to include this nonsense of "God's abode," we've been taught that we "go to heaven when we die." In fact, many capitalize the word as "Heaven" when talking about "God's abode."

HOWEVER, the TRUTH is that God doesn't HAVE an "abode," as such! Why not? It's because He's OMNIPRESENT! He's EVERYWHERE ALL AT THE SAME TIME!

Three passages of Scripture upon which you should meditate are these:

Solomon said in his prayer to YHWH at the dedication of the Temple,

1 Kings 8:27 (KJV)

27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded? 

This is repeated in 2 Chronicles:

2 Chronicles 6:18 (KJV)

18 But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built! 

And then, David had said in Psalm 139:

Psalm 139:1-18 (KJV)

1 {To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.}

O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me.
2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.
3 Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.
4 For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether.
5 Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.
7 WHITHER SHALL I GO FROM THY SPIRIT? OR WHITHER SHALL I FLEE FROM THY PRESENCE?
8 IF I ASCEND UP INTO HEAVEN, THOU ART THERE: IF I MAKE MY BED IN HELL (IN THE GRAVE), BEHOLD, THOU ART THERE.
9 IF I TAKE THE WINGS OF THE MORNING, AND DWELL IN THE UTTERMOST PARTS OF THE SEA;
10 EVEN THERE SHALL THY HAND LEAD ME, AND THY RIGHT HAND SHALL HOLD ME.
11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest (microscopic) parts of the earth.
16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
17 How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!
18 If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.

There is NOWHERE one can go that God is not!

God DOES have a place that is built FOR US; Yeshua` said, "I go to prepare a place FOR YOU (plural)." But, we're not told we shall go there! We're told in Revelation 21:1-3 that IT COMES HERE TO THIS EARTH AFTER THE EARTH HAS BEEN REMADE!

Revelation 21:1-3 (KJV)

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away (Greek: apeelthan = "has gone away," as described in 2 Peter 3:10); and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, COMING DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN (OUT OF THE SKY), prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven (out of the throne) saying,

"Behold, the tabernacle (tent) of God is WITH MEN, and HE WILL DWELL (TENT) WITH THEM, and they shall be his people, and GOD HIMSELF SHALL BE WITH THEM, and be their God."

The New Jerusalem can't contain God either, but He has created it for US!

On 8/8/2021 at 7:18 PM, DeighAnn said:

 I believe when my flesh body dies,  the 'carcass' goes into the ground and I return to God and it is CHRIST that I see as He receives me and I receive my immortality at that time also. 

You ARE your "flesh body!" That's what a "soul" IS! A "soul" (Hebrew: nefesh) is "an air-breathing, created being." The Genesis account makes NO effort to distinguish between the person and the body! The person IS the body! The body IS the person!

Look again at the evidence:

Genesis 2:7 (KJV)

7 And the LORD God (Hebrew: YHWH Elohiym) formed MAN (not "the body of the man") of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and MAN (not "the body of the man") became a living SOUL (a living, AIR-BREATHING, CREATED-BEING).

Genesis 3:17-19 (KJV)

17 And unto Adam he said,

"Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, 'Thou shalt not eat of it': cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till THOU (not THY BODY) RETURN UNTO THE GROUND; for OUT OF IT WAST THOU (not THY BODY) TAKEN: for DUST THOU (not THY BODY) ART, and UNTO DUST SHALT THOU (not THY BODY) RETURN.

Ecclesiastes 3:16-22 (KJV)

16 And moreover I saw under the sun the place of judgment, that wickedness wasthere; and the place of righteousness, that iniquity was there. 17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work. 18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20 ALL GO UNTO ONE PLACE; ALL ARE OF THE DUST, AND ALL TURN TO DUST AGAIN. 21 Who knoweth the spirit (breath) of man that goeth upward, and the spirit (breath) of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? 22 Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?

It only SEEMS like the New Testament contradicts the Old Testament, but in reality, we've been taught a load of garbage! It's a PHILOSOPHY and a THEOLOGY that doesn't agree with the Scriptures!

Listen again to Iyov ("Job"):

Job 19:23-27 (KJV)

23 Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book!
24 That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever!
25 For I KNOW THAT MY REDEEMER LIVETH, AND THAT HE SHALL STAND AT THE LATTER DAY UPON THE EARTH:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet IN MY FLESH SHALL I SEE GOD:
27 WHOM I SHALL SEE FOR MYSELF, AND MINE EYES SHALL BEHOLD, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

 

On 8/8/2021 at 7:18 PM, DeighAnn said:

Not really any different than those who will  be alive when Christ returns, and are 'transformed/changed' (shedding the carcass, releasing the spiritual body and receiving immortality to be ever with the Lord) and meeting those who have returned with Christ (me) in the air.  

How can I DIE if I have eaten the bread of LIFE?  

How can DEATH hold me for ANY AMOUNT OF TIME if I have been rendered/washed clean, made SINLESS through the blood of the Lamb? 

thou sowest not that body that shall be.   SO WHAT IS BEING RESURRECTED thousands of years later?

The spirit returns to God who gave it?  SO WHAT IS BEING RESURRECTED thousands of years later?

Here, you have a poorly formed understanding of the "spiritual body" and what Yeshua` was telling His disciples in the final days of His offer of the Kingdom to the Jews.

First, God didn't put a "spiritual body" inside one's physical body! That's just nonsense. The "spiritual body" is not a body made of spirit! That's NOT what Paul was teaching! You MUST understand the Greek with which Paul wrote 1 Corinthians 15:

1 Corinthians 15:35-57 (KJV)

35 But some man will say,

"How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

36 Thou fool, THAT WHICH THOU SOWEST (PUT IN THE GROUND) IS NOT QUICKENED (BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE), EXCEPT IT DIE: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be (the stalk of wheat), but bare grain (one kernel), it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it (the kernel) a body (the stalk) as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies (bodies above the sky), and bodies terrestrial (bodies above the earth): but the glory (brightness) of the celestial is one, and the glory (brightness; a "healthy glow") of the terrestrial is another. (Then he explains:) 41 There is one glory (brightness) of the sun, and another glory (brightness) of the moon, and another glory (brightness) of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory (brightness and hue).

42 SO ALSO IS THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.
IT is sown in corruption; IT is raised in incorruption: 
43 IT is sown in dishonour; IT is raised in glory:
IT is sown in weakness; IT is raised in power: 
44 IT is sown a natural body (Greek: sooma psuchikon = "a breathing body");
IT is raised a spiritual body (Greek: sooma pneumatikon = "a BLASTING body").

There is a natural body (a breathing body), and there is a spiritual body (a blasting body). 45 And so it is written, "The first man Adam was made a living soul (air-breather)" (Genesis 2:7); the last Adam was made a quickening spirit (a life-giving WIND). 46 Howbeit THAT WAS NOT FIRST WHICH IS SPIRITUAL, BUT THAT WHICH IS NATURAL; and AFTERWARD that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth (ground), earthy (dirt-like): the second man is the Lord from heaven (the master from the sky). 48 As is the earthy (dirt-like), such are they also that are earthy (dirt-like): and as is the heavenly (bodies above-the-sky), such are they also that are heavenly (like-bodies-above-the-sky). 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy (dirt-like), we shall also bear the image of the heavenly (like-bodies-above-the-sky).

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed (NOT "replaced"), 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and THE DEAD SHALL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE (NOT ABLE TO DECAY), and WE (the living) SHALL BE CHANGED. 53 For THIS CORRUPTIBLE MUST PUT ON INCORRUPTION (NOT BEING ABLE TO DECAY AGAIN), and THIS MORTAL MUST PUT ON IMMORTALITY (NOT BEING ABLE TO DIE AGAIN). 54 So WHEN THIS CORRUPTIBLE SHALL HAVE PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and THIS MORTAL SHALL HAVE PUT ON IMMORTALITY, THEN shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,

"Death is swallowed up in victory." (Isaiah 25:8)

55 "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" (Hosea 13:14)

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

On 8/8/2021 at 7:18 PM, DeighAnn said:

The graves WERE OPENED, THE dead came out. 

It is funny how 'different' I read this.  But I will do it again my way and then do it as I believe you are saying it should be read.  

AS I SEE IT

Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

Going a tiny bit deep here.  GOD DOES EVERYTHING by LAWS.  Everything runs by laws.  Even DEATH has rules.  That is how ONE MAN could cause the WHOLE LAW ON LIFE AND DEATH TO CHANGE AND ANOTHER MAN COULD CHANGE THE WHOLE LAW AGAIN.  BUT laws pertain to ALL or everything under them.  ARE WE told there was A LAW that changed  AT THAT TIME?   YES 
 

Romans 8:2 For

THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE
IN CHRIST JESUS 

HATH MADE ME FREE FROM
THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH.  

SINCE THE LAW OF LIFE HAS SET ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF DEATH, WHY WOULD I EVER THINK I WOULD 'DIE' JUST BECAUSE THE FLESH CARCASS CARRYING ME AROUND DID??  It makes no sense ESPECIALLY since I HAVE ANOTHER way better, non corruptible body.  

Again, you ARE the flesh carcass! You're not "carried around" by it! Look, you aren't the incorruptible body UNTIL the corruptible body has put on incorruption! (1 Corinthians 15:53-54) And, the incorruptible body is NOT "ANOTHER ... body"; it's the SAME BODY that's been CHANGED!

On 8/8/2021 at 7:18 PM, DeighAnn said:

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh,  GOD SENDING HIS OWN SON  in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?  WE FOLLOW THE LAW PERFECTLY BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB IN THE EYES OF THE LAW.  HENCE NO DEATH OF ANY PART OF US OTHER THAN THE PART THAT GOES BACK TO THE DUST FROM WHERE IT CAME.  WE ARE PILGRAMS AND SOJOURNERS HERE.  THIS IS NOT OUR NATURAL STATE.  

Ridiculous. We are MADE as a new being in the womb! Go back to Psalm 139:

Psalm 139:13-16 (KJV)

13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul (air-breathing created being) knoweth right well.
15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought (worked) in the lowest (microscopic) parts of the earth.
16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect (immature); and in thy book all my members (body parts) were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

This is why abortion is so EVIL! David was an INDIVIDUAL while he was still in the womb (uterus) being fashioned! No one can watch the sperm and the egg join while still in the Fallopian tube; that's why David said he was made in secret, but the person begins at conception!

The flesh is NOT evil! Nor should it be contrasted against the "spirit." That's NOT what Paul meant! Furthermore, as Randy Alcorn said in the Appendix A: Christoplatonism's False Assumptions of his book Heaven,

Quote

"It's no coincidence that Paul wrote his detailed defense of physical resurrection to the Corinthians, who were immersed in the Greek philosophy of dualism. They'd been taught that the spiritual was incompatible with the physical. But Christ, in his incarnation and resurrection, laid claim not only to the spiritual realm but to the physical as well. His redemption wasn't only of spirits but also of bodies and the earth."

...

"But according to Scripture, our bodies aren't just shells for our spirits to inhabit; they're a good and essential aspect of our being. Likewise, the earth is not a second-rate location from which we must be delivered. Rather, it was handmade by God for us. Earth, not some incorporeal state, is God's choice as mankind's original and ultimate dwelling place."

Don't succumb to "Christoplatonism!" Ever since the late 200s to mid-300s A.D., too much Greek philosophy was added to the theology of Christianity, and it has POISONED the minds of Christians for CENTURIES! Just look up the Roman Catholic word "beatific" for an example! It's nauseatingly detached from reality!

On 8/8/2021 at 7:18 PM, DeighAnn said:

Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

SO THERE IS NO DEATH IN MY SOUL/SPIRIT BUT ONLY IN THE FLESH THAT CARRIES IT AROUND AND I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT GOING INTO THE EARTH FOR EVER AND EVER, IT JUST ISN'T 'TAKING ME WITH IT' NOT FOR ANY AMOUNT OF TIME.  

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

SINCE I AM NOT IN THE FLESH ALREADY, THE FLESH DYING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME EXCEPT FOR SETTING ME FREE.  

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

THE ONLY REASON I AM STILL HERE IN THIS FLESH IS  THAT GOD HAS NOT TAKEN MY SPIRIT/SOUL BACK TO HEAVEN.  BUT WHEN HE DOES, THIS FLESH WILL DROP TO THE GROUND AS I GO TO HEAVEN.  

WHY DO WE NOT FEAR ANYONE WHO CAN 'KILL' OUR FLESH?  BECAUSE THEY CAN'T TOUCH 'THE REAL US'.  SURE, THEY can make us feel 'pain' for a bit but not forever and WHAT EVER THEY DO COMES BACK ON THEM in ways we can't even understand and as for US to whom these things happen GOD RECOMPENSES.  Just KNOWING THAT makes NOTHING and EVERYTHING PERFECT.  

THAT ALONE SETS US FREE FROM THE EVIL OF THIS WORLD.  AND IF WE HAVE COME TO THAT KNOWLEDGE THEN WE KNOW WE HAVE GODS PROTECTION AND WISDOM AND WHEN NEEDED WE ARE GIVEN POWER OVER THE ENEMY.  AND WHAT COMES NEXT?  THINGS TO WONDERFUL TO EVEN IMAGINE IS WHAT GOD HAS WAITING FOR THOSE WHO TRULY LOVE HIM.  AND THERE ISN'T A THING SATAN CAN DO TO US NOW OR LATER, UNLESS WE ALLOW IT.  
 

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies (MAKE ALIVE/BRING ABOUT OUR IMMORTALITY) by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Romans 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are THE SONS OF GOD. 
We may not be 'the only begotten' but we are 'SONS' none the less.  

Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear;

THE BONDAGE WHICH CONSISTS IN DECAY  (Winers Grammar, § 59, 8 a., cf. Buttmann, 78 (68)), 
equivalent to the law, the necessity, of perishing,
Romans 8:21; used of the slavish sense of fear,
devoid alike of buoyancy of spirit and of trust in God,
such as is produced by the thought of death

GOT that straight from biblehub  Strongs Greek 1397. 

Yeah, but douleia (1397) has its primary meaning as "slavery" or "bondage." The rest of that comes from theology and NOT from the primary meaning! Also, that is a PARTIAL QUOTE of what Thayer's Greek Lexicon says! If you're going to quote a source, make sure you quote the entire thing; otherwise, you may introduce a concept not intended by the writer, misquoting the writer and introducing error.

On 8/8/2021 at 7:18 PM, DeighAnn said:

 but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; IF SO BE THAT WE SUFFER WITH HIM THAT WE MAY BE ALSO GLORIFIED TOGETHER 

Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

 

BEFORE CHRIST GAVE UP THE GHOST, THE DEAD STAYED DEAD.  SO FOR CHRIST TO RESURRECT FROM THE DEAD, A CHANGE IN 'LAW' SO TO SPEAK FOR WHAT HAPPENS TO THE DEAD, CHRIST NOW AMONG THEM,  HAD TO TAKE PLACE.  THE LAWS OF SIN AND DEATH HAD TO CHANGE at least for those without SIN

This is a SIGNIFICANT ERROR! The Law of sin and death is found in Romans 6:23:

Romans 6:20-23 (KJV)

20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the END everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

See, being made free from sin is a current event called "God's justification of an individual." It gives us the promise of everlasting life, and we are IMMEDIATELY heirs of that promise. However, the everlasting life is not realized until the END! We still feel the effects of sin, because its paycheck is death, and all men everywhere STILL DIE! In fact,

Hebrews 9:23-28 (KJV)

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven (the sky) itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the END of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And AS IT IS APPOINTED UNTO MEN ONCE TO DIE, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and UNTO THEM THAT LOOK FOR HIM SHALL HE APPEAR THE SECOND TIME WITHOUT SIN UNTO SALVATION (RESCUE).

I'll stop here because this post is getting too long, and I'm getting tired. Shalom. 

 

[DeighAnn]

14 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

That's understandable since we've been so indoctrinated with that position for SO LONG! By re-defining the term "soul" and expanding the term "heaven" to include this nonsense of "God's abode," we've been taught that we "go to heaven when we die." In fact, many capitalize the word as "Heaven" when talking about "God's abode."

Hi Retro,

Nonsense?  I must disagree.  And people may be trying to redefine the 'TERM' soul, but we are living breathing souls/spirits, children of God, and 'dissecting' the WORDS USED TO DEFINE what we so clearly live ourselves and clearly see in each other won't ever change that.  

I try to stick with the simplicity of Christ, the words of God and how they are written not to the 'learned and the wise' but so that 'ewes/children' can understand them.  I don't believe that to arrive at Gods basic truth one even needs to go back to the original languages and that it is only used to go deeper.  When that going 'deeper' wants to CHANGE those basic truths, stepping back and finding out where we have gone wrong should be the order of the day, IMHO anyhow. 

So the simple truth GODS WORD tells us without anything more than Gods words is easy to figure out.   

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?



Matthew 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Matthew 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Luke 24:50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.

Luke 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

Luke 24:52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:


John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

John 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.




Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;


Hebrews 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

[Retrobyter]

On 8/11/2021 at 2:42 PM, DeighAnn said:

Hi Retro,

Nonsense?  I must disagree.  And people may be trying to redefine the 'TERM' soul, but we are living breathing souls/spirits, children of God, and 'dissecting' the WORDS USED TO DEFINE what we so clearly live ourselves and clearly see in each other won't ever change that.  

I try to stick with the simplicity of Christ, the words of God and how they are written not to the 'learned and the wise' but so that 'ewes/children' can understand them.  I don't believe that to arrive at Gods basic truth one even needs to go back to the original languages and that it is only used to go deeper.  When that going 'deeper' wants to CHANGE those basic truths, stepping back and finding out where we have gone wrong should be the order of the day, IMHO anyhow. 

Shalom, @DeighAnn.

I'm all for "sticking with the simplicity of Christ," but which part is what Yeshua` the Messiah wanting to impart to us as "simplicity" and which parts have been changed ALREADY to adapt a new philosophy into Christianity? I believe MUCH damage was already done by those who chose to bring Greek philosophy into Christianity between the late 100s and mid 300s A.D!

It's not just the term "soul" that has been changed, but we've also changed the term "heaven!" Instead of just meaning "the sky" or the "skies" as it once did, it now refers to this "place where God dwells." That's WRONG! There is NO "place" where "God dwells," for He dwells EVERYWHERE! He is OMNIPRESENT!

Psalm 139:1-17 (KJV)

1 {To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.}

O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me.
2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.
3 Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.
4 For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether.
5 Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, THOU ART THERE: if I make my bed in hell, BEHOLD, THOU ART THERE.
9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
10 EVEN THERE SHALL THY HAND LEAD ME, AND THY RIGHT HAND SHALL HOLD ME.
11 If I say, "Surely the darkness shall cover me;" even the night shall be light about me.
12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest (microscopic) parts of the earth.
16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect (immature); and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance (of time) were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
17 How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!

If you can understand this MAJOR change to the philosophies of Christianity, you can begin to see the damage that has been done.

On 8/11/2021 at 2:42 PM, DeighAnn said:

So the simple truth GOD'S WORD tells us without anything more than God's words is easy to figure out.

This MAY be true in certain cases, but when one brings in the teachings of philosophy and theology down through the millennia, one gets the "unimpeachable truths" like "how many (the number of) angels that can dance on the head of a pin." However, even in this example is the mutation of the Greek word "aggelos," transliterated as "angel." The Greek word originally meant nothing more than a "messenger," but now that word has been adapted - mutated - into meaning a "supernatural being that God created at some point in time to give His messages to His people." Now, we have THREE terms that have been redefined just in this short investigation into what God's Word tells us: "soul," "heaven," and now "angel."

On 8/11/2021 at 2:42 PM, DeighAnn said:

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Being in the book of Iyov ("Job"), which is in the "Old Testament," we know this is limited by the language of Hebrew (although Greek WAS used to translate the Hebrew text into the Septuagint). Of course, we also have the barriers of translating this into the English of 1611, and this is tempered by how well we've personally been taught to translate this in our heads for the current English dialect we speak, read, and write today.

So, we have some limitations to what we "know" from this passage of Scripture.

First, we have to know who and what this person called "Satan" (Hebrew: hasSaaTaan, spelled "hei-patach-sin (dotted)-qaamets-tet-qaamets-nun" = "the Enemy") is;

second, we have to know what these "sons of God" (Hebrew: bneey haaElohiym = "sons of-the-God") are;

third, we need to know what it means to "present themselves before the LORD" (Hebrew: lhityatstseeV `al YHWH, spelled "lamed-sheva-hei-hiriq-tav-sheva-yod-patach-tsadday (dotted)-tsere-Vet `ayin-patach-lamed YUD-HEI-VAV-HEI" and meaning "to-set-or-station-themselves before YHWH"), and

THEN we may be able to decipher what is being told to us in this passage of Scripture. See, what WE HAVE BEEN TAUGHT or what WE HAVE LEARNED BY EXPOSURE TO THE TEACHINGS OF OTHERS of what these three things are, will determine how this passage will be translated into what we "know" from this passage.

 

So, these are the different ways this passage may be taught:

Way 1:

"HaSatan" is a supernatural messenger who is an Enemy of God; the "sons of God" are supernatural messengers of God; and that this "presenting of themselves before YHWH" was located in "Heaven." Thus, we are being taught in this passage of Scripture, that (1) angels present themselves from time to time before YHWH, (2) Satan, being one of the angels, could also come and present himself before YHWH, among them, and (3) that Satan and God could talk to one another behind the scenes about certain people, like Iyov.

Way 2: 

"HaSatan" is a supernatural messenger who is an Enemy of God; the "sons of God" are the people of God who come before Him, to provide a sacrifice (at the time this book was written); and that this "presenting of themselves before YHWH" was located on the earth, on or in the Land." Thus, we may learn that (1) Satan is one of the angels, (2) the sons of God could come before YHWH to present sacrifices, and (3) because Satan knows that God will make Himself known at the time of sacrifice, he could come before YHWH, and talk about certain people, like Iyov.

There is also a THIRD way that one might consider:

Way 3:

"HaSatan," being the "ancient serpent" or "original snake" (Revelation 20:2), is a PHYSICAL created being, the ACTUAL serpent who talked to Chavah ("Eve") in the Garden, or at least one of its descendants (transported on the Ark through the Flood), who is still an Enemy to both God and the men He created; the "sons of God" are the people of God who come before Him, to provide a sacrifice (at the time this book was written); and that this "presenting of themselves before YHWH" was located on the earth, on or in the Land." Thus, we may learn that (1) Satan is a SNAKE or a DRAGON, (2) the sons of God could come before YHWH to present sacrifices, and (3) because Satan knows that God will make Himself known at the time of sacrifice, he could come before YHWH, slithering among the presented, and talk to YHWH about certain people, like Iyov.

Don't make the mistake that you know all there is to know about a passage of Scripture! You've probably only heard this passage taught the first way, but you don't KNOW that way is the CORRECT way!

On 8/11/2021 at 2:42 PM, DeighAnn said:

Matthew 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Matthew 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
 

Yes, our Father is in the skies. It's a gentle reminder to look upward and around you to remember that God is EVERYWHERE! Here, in Florida, we have very flat land, and when one is in a solitary building that is multiple stories high, like a hospital, one can see a good distance off. When one is looking out at the surrounding land and the blue skies with small, fluffy clouds above it going off over the horizon, one can get the sense of how big this world must be, and God is EVERYWHERE those skies exist! Then, when the sun sets and the skies turn a much darker blue and that stars appear, we see even greater distances, and God is STILL EVERYWHERE those skies exist!

Now, your quotations are being taken from the New Testament, and although they were probably all written in Hebrew or Aramaic first and TRANSLATED into Greek, the only manuscripts that we have of these passages are in Greek.

Thus, the Greek of the phrase that is highlighted above in Matthew 5:16 is "kai doxasoosin ton Patera humoon ton en tois ouranois" meaning "and they-should-glorify the Father of-you the-One in the skies." 

On 8/11/2021 at 2:42 PM, DeighAnn said:

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Luke 24:50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.

Luke 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

Luke 24:52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:
 

Yes, Yeshua` was parted from them and was carried up into the sky! The Greek of the highlighted portion of Luke 24:51 is "diestee ap' autoon kai anefereto eis ton ouranton." It means "he-was-separated from them and he-was-carried-upward into the sky."

On 8/11/2021 at 2:42 PM, DeighAnn said:

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

John 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
 

Yes, Yeshua` did indeed come DOWN from the sky, being the Word of God made flesh (John 1:1,2,14) and who was the offspring of the Holy Spirit of God (Luke 1:30-35).

First, the Greek of the highlighted phrase in John 6:28 is "hoti katabebeeka apo tou ouranou" meaning "for I-have-come-down away-from the sky."

Second,

John 1:1-2, 14 (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. ...

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth

Third,

Luke 1:30-35 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

34 Then said Mary unto the angel,

"How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?"

35 And the angel answered and said unto her,

"The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

On 8/11/2021 at 2:42 PM, DeighAnn said:

Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Yes.

The Greek of the highlighted phrase is "hos ekathisen en dexia tou thronou tees Megaloosunees en tois ouranois," which means "who sat-down at [the] right-side of-the throne of-the Greatness in the skies."

On 8/11/2021 at 2:42 PM, DeighAnn said:

Hebrews 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Yes, and the Greek of the phrases highlighted above, are "ou gar eis cheiropoieeta eiseelthen hagia Christos" and "all' eis auton ton ouranon nun emfanistheenai too prosoopoo tou Theou huper heemoon." They translate to "not for into handcrafted has-entered holies Messiah" and "but into itself the sky, now to-appear in-the face of-the God above us."So, they mean "for the Messiah has not entered into handcrafted holies" and "but into the sky itself, now to appear in the face of the God above us."

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

If you can understand this MAJOR change to the philosophies of Christianity, you can begin to see the damage that has been done.

Hello Retro,

I don't see the 'changes' as you do.  I believe the Holy Spirit leads the changes for me.  

Seems some still don't get that Gods words are no longer 'written in stone'.  I believe when first received the Holy Spirit led those for the purpose of spreading the words of God to the world, and that was different than the leading today which is  to make sure that everyone is studied and wearing the armor of God so withstand and endure to the end of the last days and not be overcome.  Gods words even tell us KNOWLEDGE would be increased.    Wasn't all that long ago that the masses got to hold a bible in their own hands.  

Anyway, just the sky.  Just the sky and only the sky as that is what 'THE LETTER' of it may be.
Isn't it just a form of bondage when only 'the meanings' man has set forth for those words,  can be used to find truth?  How do you take into account  'the infiltrations'  of the 'scribes'?  What you have set before you, as the plumb bob for truth, are 'THE WORDS written in STONE and defined by man  that can be, are and  have been manipulated'. 

I read those same words as you but what LEADS ME is the Holy Spirit and the meanings I receive come from not the definitions of those words but from the PRECEPT UPON PRECEPT of them to find what I believe GOD is conveying.   
(WHY do you think it was with 'THE SCRIBES' that had 'not one of the lineage' found to be with them.  NOT ONE amongst them, even had to send a 'fake' to find a proper one.  WHAT does that tell you?  At the very least NOT to ever DEPEND ONLY upon the words, but the leading of the Holy Spirit through those words.)  

What is with the bringing up of "GOD IS OMNIFICENT" whenever the 'definitions' of the words don't fit the specific situations?  Don't think people don't notice the switch?  It comes about at the same point in discussion after discussion.  Just like the same questions are never answered.  

GOD can and does write in a fashion in which the same words can mean different things for different times while remaining true for both.  Rightly dividing CAN NOT be done if all the focus is on what the 'word' means here is what the word means everywhere.  That kind of soil can't be good for growth.  

GOD DOES DWELL IN HEAVENs.  Precept after precept tells us God wants to DWELL WITH US, not in the sky and all around but specifically.  His image is like ours.  His Throne will be amongst us as it is amongst those in heaven right now.  

We have been told that only those who have taken OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST and have received the Holy Spirit can understand what GODS WORDS ARE TELLING us.  And so if'heaven' is just sky, I would do something different.  You can give me that definition till the cows come home and STILL the meaning I receive from precept on precept I will continue to believe way more than OVER THE definition upon definition.  

SO, again, IT is not the WORDs and their meanings but the thoughts and the feelings the words together convey and they also allow us to 'glimpse' into the places we will be one day . 

So when I read of God dwelling with us, I don't quit seeing the GOD Omnipresent and all that encompasses but I also see God as Jesus walking amongst us with a 'place' for us to be with him not only later but also for some, now.  So when I read these verses I don't think of God as someone not ever to be seen or touched while all around us but God dwelling with us as Our GOD,  Our father, our home/abode/resting place etc.

Psalm 23:1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.  2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: He leadeth me beside the still waters.  3 He restoreth my soul: He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for His name's sake.  4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou art with me; Thy rod and Thy staff they comfort me.  5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.  6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

 THE HOUSE OF THE LORD.  Not just 'the sky'.  

Psalm 11:4 The LORD is in His holy temple, the LORD's throne is in heaven: His eyes behold, His eyelids try, the children of men.

Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.


1 Kings 22:18 And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, Did I not tell thee that he would prophesy no good concerning me, but evil?

1 Kings 22:19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

1 Kings 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

1 Kings 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

1 Kings 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persude him, and prevail also go forth, and do so.

1 Kings 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

 

Psalm 26:6 I will wash mine hands in innocency: so will I compass thine altar, O LORD:

Psalm 26:7 That I may publish with the voice of thanksgiving, and tell of all thy wondrous works.

Psalm 26:8 LORD, I have loved the habitation of thy house, and the place where thine honour dwelleth.

Psalm 27:1 The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

Psalm 27:2 When the wicked, even mine enemies and my foes, came upon me to eat up my flesh, they stumbled and fell.

Psalm 27:3 Though an host should encamp against me, my heart shall not fear: though war should rise against me, in this will I be confident.

Psalm 27:4 One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple.

Psalm 27:5 For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.

Psalm 27:6 And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: therefore will I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD.

Psalm 27:7 Hear, O LORD, when I cry with my voice: have mercy also upon me, and answer me.

Psalm 27:8 When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek.

Psalm 27:9 Hide not thy face far from me; put not thy servant away in anger: thou hast been my help; leave me not, neither forsake me, O God of my salvation.

Psalm 27:10 When my father and my mother forsake me, then the LORD will take me up.

Psalm 27:11 Teach me thy way, O LORD, and lead me in a plain path, because of mine enemies.

Psalm 27:12 Deliver me not over unto the will of mine enemies: for false witnesses are risen up against me, and such as breathe out cruelty.

Psalm 27:13 I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living.

Psalm 27:14 Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.

(Certainly there is never a time in which any Christian would need to be raptured away from evil, is there?)

 

Psalm 84:1 How amiable are thy tabernacles, O LORD of hosts!

Psalm 84:2 My soul longeth, yea, even fainteth for the courts of the LORD, my heart and my flesh crieth out for the living God.

Psalm 84:3 Yea, the sparrow hath found an house, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may lay her young, even thine altars, O LORD of hosts, my King, and my God.

Psalm 84:4 Blessed are they that dwell in thy house: they will be still praising thee. Selah.

Psalm 84:5 Blessed is the man whose strength is in thee; in whose heart are the ways of them.

Psalm 84:6 Who passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools.

Psalm 84:7 They go from strength to strength, every one of them in Zion appeareth before God.

Psalm 84:8 O LORD God of hosts, hear my prayer: give ear, O God of Jacob. Selah.

Psalm 84:9 Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed.

Psalm 84:10 For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.

Psalm 84:11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

Psalm 84:12 O LORD of hosts, blessed is the man that trusteth in thee.

God is giving us a description of what it FEELS like to be WELCOME in HIS HOUSE.  To be a part of HIS FAMILY.  BUT if you stop and take each and every word and use it's meaning as 'a word' and put those all together you most likely will come up with a 'diffent' meaning.  But what has been lost?  The thoughts and ideas and feelings that are being conveyed.  

Like the word 'soul'.  Man is trying to give it a 'specific' meaning and set that word in BONDAGE to that specific meaning.  Then with that meaning EVERYTHING read must be taken that one specific way.  BUT the word SOUL is used is MANY MANY DIFFERENT WAYS.  It doesn't have only one meaning and it is used in different ways.  

God talks about his own soul.  Well Gods breath can't leave him as it can us.  And we are not Gods soul.  

 

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Now, we have THREE terms that have been redefined just in this short investigation into what God's Word tells us: "soul," "heaven," and now "angel."

TERMS vs PRECEPTS, Definition vs Usage,  bound or free

Why would we not be able to swear by "JUST THE SKY" if indeed,  that was ALL HEAVEN WAS?

Matthew 23:19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

Matthew 23:20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

Matthew 23:21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.

Matthew 23:22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

teach someone that heaven is 'just sky'....not me.  

The word 'psuche' is translated SOUL, LIFE, MIND, HEART, HEARTILY, US, YOU and so we must allow scripture to interpret its meaning for us,  same as Nephesh in the OT.  If we don't do that,  ALL we are left with are MANS profane definitions.  

Usage: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual. frombiblehub

teach someone that soul is 'just breath'...not me.

Acts 20:9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.

Acts 20:10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him.

HERE WE HAVE 'BREATH OF LIFE' OR a breathing body.  

Revelation 8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

and here we have a no longer breathing body



Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men
(do it from the inner being, the soul, the )

Philipians 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
(with ONE SPIRIT, ONE SOUL)


John 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.


Angels  

Supernatural 
Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
 

Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Matthew 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

or Natural
Matthew 11:9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.

Matthew 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.


and again, NOT BY DEFINITION, BUT ONLY CONTEXT CAN determine whether a human or celestial messenger is intended.


Why was it the Jews didn't recognize Jesus?  They read and studied THE WORDS all the time.  They knew the definitions of those words more than anyone we know.  but it DIDN'T HELP them find the TRUTH and worse yet is it allowed them to tweek GODS LAWS more to their likings and advantages.  

So, I don't believe it is 'definition and only definition' in which Gods Truth is found but by 'precept upon precept with the leading of the Holy Spirit' at least that is how I receive it. And I am at peace with that.  I don't believe those two ways come out the same very often, just look at our differences even in just those couple words.  

Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall He teach knowledge? and whom shall He make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will He speak to this people.

Isaiah 28:12 To whom He said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

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