Trying to parse the scriptures about the End

[abcdef]

1 hour ago, Heleadethme said:

And looking at this one.  Are we looking for an earthly kingdom in this present form?  Doesn't scripture say "here we have no continuing city but are looking for the one to come", ie, NEW Jerusalem and NEW heavens and earth?

Isa 65:17

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isa 66:22

For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

2Pe 3:13

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Lk 17:20, "And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:"

v. 21, "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

---

Many teach the exact opposite of what Jesus said.

They say that the kingdom WILL come with observation.

They say that they will point to the kingdom and say, "There it is." (A land mass with borders.)

The spiritual kingdom of the new covenant of Israel began on Pentecost and remains to this day.

 

[Diaste]

There is a contradiction in this line of thinking that must be resolved.

[abcdef]

6 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

First we must understand the past and what prophesies have already been fulfilled.

http://lastdayspast.com/dating-the-revelation/

The scroll/book of the seven seals is now open for everyone to read, it is the story of the 2 witnesses.

If the scroll is open and revealed, then all 7 seals must already have been broken, when John was with Jesus at the writing of the Revelation.

If the 6th seal is the day of the Lord against 70 AD Jerusalem, then the 6th seal must have already happened, in order for the scroll to be opened.

This is confirmed by Dan 12:4 & 7, where it says that all the things in the last vision must be completed before the holy people are scattered (in 70 AD).

Then it will be the time when the sealed book of v 4 can be opened, after the 70 AD scattering and the beginning of the last days v 7.

So the Revelation could only be revealed after the 70 AD destruction and the great scattering into the gentile nations.

 

6 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Then we might get more of an idea about the rest. Remember that 'the world' in prophet speak is the known world. Also they love hyperbole and flowery visions so we must study the Tanakh prophesies to get the feel for this. "This generation means" THIS GENERATION I am talking to right now. And when it says 'these things must shortly come to pass' that is what it means.

Yes, but if the Revelation speaks of eternity, that has not come yet, death is not destroyed, and this planet continues, then it still has been a long time for some things to come to pass, in the eyes of men.

 

6 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Much misuse of prophesies AKA my post on FUTURISM has been deliberately skewed. There is not much in Daniel or Revelation or Matt 24 that has not already happened.

Please show me, say, 3 scriptures from the Revelation that have not been fulfilled yet.

 

6 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

many will violently disagree with this.

I think that many great prophets have died for the truth.

 

6 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

So just use you head and read it all for yourself. Also read Josephus about the fall of Jerusalem. It truly was horrific even by today's gory standards of sensationalism.

I find it amazing, how some diminish or completely ignore the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem and the great scattering into the gentile nations.

It's almost like believing that the 70 AD destruction by the Romans and the continued persecutions never took place.

Changing the events to future and not placing them in the past in the timeline.

------------

In the Revelation, the 6th seal is the 70 AD destruction, but the 7th trumpet, the 7th vial, and the fire from heaven are all an event that is about to happen when this restored Jerusalem falls.

 

[abcdef]

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

There is a contradiction in this line of thinking that must be resolved.

And?.........

[Keras]

2 hours ago, abcdef said:

In the Revelation, the 6th seal is the 70 AD destruction, but the 7th trumpet, the 7th vial, and the fire from heaven are all an event that is about to happen when this restored Jerusalem falls.

 

Revelation 6:12-17 bears no relation to what happened in 70AD. 

It should be obvious to any one that the terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath must be the next prophesied event. The Day when the Lord does put His enemies under His feet. Isaiah 66:13-17, Jeremiah 49:34-37, 2 Peter 3:7

[Diaste]

5 hours ago, abcdef said:

And?.........

And I think WilliamL said it quite well. That resolves the problem between what we have been promised and the reality. 

[Justin Adams]

13 hours ago, Diaste said:

There is a contradiction in this line of thinking that must be resolved.

We might think there is?? No statements without substance. Empty statements only derail.

We should not try to obfuscate and derail @Heleadethme's topic. @abcdef is also quite correct in much of what is said. We ought to attend to the topic and not digress and derail it with oft used dichotomies and ad holmium empty non sequitur statements.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Justin Adams]

59 minutes ago, Diaste said:

And I think WilliamL said it quite well. That resolves the problem between what we have been promised and the reality. 

Obtuse empty statement. Let us not do this. Let the persons speak for themselves and not spread 2nd hand ideas in the hope you will engage them. I do not think @Heleadethme needs the much touted dispensational dichotomies either. If she did, she would just turn on the 'christian' tv channels or go to the local church that is undoubtedly pre-mil and dispensational.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Diaste]

1 minute ago, Justin Adams said:

Obtuse empty statement. Let us not do this. Let the persons speak for themselves and not spread 2nd hand ideas in the hope you will engage them. I do not think @Heleadethme needs the much touted dispensational dichotomies either.

Just giving credit where credit is due. Other people have insight I do not have and say things better than I can, or do. This is one of those cases. 

While I agree dispensationalism is a fantasy as a concept that alone does not make every word spoken by a dispensationalist incorrect merely by virtue of a label. People are incorrect by lack of fact, misunderstanding fact, ignoring facts or wrong conclusions in spite of having all the facts. We let education, experience, rearing, and personal desire interrupt solid fact based conclusions. 

We aren't partitioned by label assigned attributes, that is prejudice. 

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

We might think there is?? No statements without substance. Empty statements only derail.

We should not try to obfuscate and derail @Heleadethme's topic. @abcdef is also quite correct in much of what is said. We ought to attend to the topic and not digress and derail it with oft used dichotomies and ad holmium empty non sequitur statements.

Oh, you mean like the above?

That's a whole lot of assumptions thrown about.

Did you think to ask me why I said what I said?