Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[DeighAnn]

5 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Not at this particular point of time. For I have been enduring patiently.  Group A or Group B, no other choices..  Group A could lose their crown if they were to into Group B .  Group B have no crown.

I guess so is our Pride.  From above posts.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Patiently enduring WHAT?  LIFE?  Sitting at your computer typing?  Is having the internet just too much to deal with? 

I am willing to have God search my heart and soul not only at this very moment but also at the time I WROTE THAT POST and I would not be repenting of pride.  

I think what people accuse others of is usually more telling of THEM than the person they are accusing.  Especially here

And I'm WILLING to pick up my cross and follow Him and endure to the END of the TRIB.

YOU SAY there is group a and b nothing more.  So you also have God SENDING people to be 'foolish virgins, left behind' JUST TO SUFFER?   And that seems RIGHT to you?

Pre tribs are willing to make up a church age, have that 'age' conveniently end right before the Trib, divide the body of Christ, so they can abandon the FOOLISH VIRGINS to suffer what they are too good to suffer.  No pride in that?

Isn't there some shepherd that runs when the wolves come, leaving the sheep on their own?  Or is that the foolish shepherd?

Doesn't really matter because if Christ HIMSELF can straight up pray

they NOT BE taken out of the world BUT KEPT FROM EVIL 

still doesn't translate NO NEED FOR PRE TRIB RAPTURE to escape and be kept form the hour, what would?

GOOD thing I am not trying to change your mind, but only trying to stop its spread  

Oh, and Group A don't get crowns as they are not willing to endure to the end, so they won't.  And they won't be flying off to 'not suffer' either.  

[Montana Marv]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

YOU SAY there is group a and b nothing more.  So you also have God SENDING people to be 'foolish virgins, left behind' JUST TO SUFFER?   And that seems RIGHT to you?

When the five foolish virgins came back, they found out that the Bridegroom already came and went.   They said; Open the door; Please let us in, please let us in.  His response was, I don't know you.

Group A is the Bride of Christ,  Group B is everyone else.  Yet Group B will have an angel  flying in mid-air proclaiming the eternal Gospel to those who live on the earth.  Rev 14:6,7.  No Need for the Church.  They did not listen to those of the Church, maybe they will listen to an angel.

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Pre tribs are willing to make up a church age, have that 'age' conveniently end right before the Trib, divide the body of Christ, so they can abandon the FOOLISH VIRGINS to suffer what they are too good to suffer.  No pride in that?

See above.  They were doomed already, that is why they are foolish.  Christ said I do not Know you.  No Pride at all, it is Scripture.

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

still doesn't translate NO NEED FOR PRE TRIB RAPTURE to escape and be kept form the hour, what would?

GOOD thing I am not trying to change your mind, but only trying to stop its spread  

Oh, and Group A don't get crowns as they are not willing to endure to the end, so they won't.  And they won't be flying off to 'not suffer' either. 

Not me, It is what Scripture says.  Group A, Hold on to what you have, so no one will take your crown. They have a crown, because they have endured patiently, It is a done deal. You have it backwards.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[DeighAnn]

23 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

When the five foolish virgins came back, they found out that the Bridegroom already came and went.   They said; Open the door; Please let us in, please let us in.  His response was, I don't know you.

When the five foolish virgins went out SATAN WAS ALREADY HERE.  If he wasn't then THEM GOING OUT wouldn't have mattered.  

Why would it matter if they were out buy and selling today?  IT WOULDN'T because SATAN ISN'T HERE.  

THERE IS ONLY ONE TIME IT IS A PROBLEM  TO GO BUY AND SELL.  

You can TRY AND SAY it a BILLION different ways,  but ALL THE VIRGINS WERE HERE.  DOESN'T MATTER WHEN CHRIST SHOWED UP BECAUSE HE SHOWS UP AFTER THE WORKING OF SATAN, AFTER THE VIRGINS GO TO BUY AND SELL.

THE VIRGINS THAT DON'T GO BUY AND SELL DON'T GET THE MARK OF THE BEAST

THE VIRGINS THAT DO, DO GET THE MARK.

BUT ALL THE VIRGINS ARE HERE.  

So YES, He is going to say I never knew you but THAT ISN'T PRE TRIB, THAT IS POST.  

 

[DeighAnn]

Group A gets a free pass and does not go to Jail. Group B goes directly into Jail and endures all the hardships which will come with it.  Post Toasties, will be toast.


HERE IS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW GOD FEELS ABOUT THE THINGS WE SAY AND DO. 

8Shall I not in that day, saith the LORD, even destroy the wise men out of Edom, and understanding out of the mount of Esau?

9And thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that every one of the mount of Esau may be cut off by slaughter.

10For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.

11In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them.

12But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress.

13Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity;

14Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossway, to cut off those of his that did escape; neither shouldest thou have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress.

15For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.


For the life of me I don't understand ESPECIALLY with the report card the 'church' was given in REV 2 and 3 how the 'pre tribs' don't understand this
 

18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Go back and read Rev 2 and 3 and tell me, would you take that group to heaven without some sort of 'PROVING'?  

What I also don't get is the messages go out to 'the churches' but the warning is to HIM singular.  It's like for the TRIB and return of Christ, Jesus let's everyone know TO HIM THAT OVERCOME, never once does He say 'to the church' that overcome, or to HIM THAT ENDURE TO THE END, but never 'to the church' that endure to the end.  If ANYTHING the 'church' is broken down to individuals for the Trib immediately before the trib

Then again, if the whole world is worshipping after the 'image' then EVERY CHURCH would be of Satan and really would be no way to address it in the rest of the book, would there?  

[Selah7]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

For the life of me I don't understand ESPECIALLY with the report card the 'church' was given in REV 2 and 3 how the 'pre tribs' don't understand this
 

They don’t understand what Jesus is saying.  Me?  I’m waiting until the true Messiah returns, and I truly hope I’m one of those selected to be delivered up in that hour of temptation whereby the Holy Spirit will speak through me and the gospel will go out throughout ALL the world.  Wow!

s e l a h

[Selah7]

"And the gospel must first be preached to all the nations. "But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit.

- Mark 13:10-11

s e l a h

[Montana Marv]

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

When the five foolish virgins went out SATAN WAS ALREADY HERE.  If he wasn't then THEM GOING OUT wouldn't have mattered. 

Then the wise virgins were here also.  They would of had to stockpiled oil it their wait. 7 years of oil to stockpile, wow.  It would have been taken away from them by the first week when the a/c arrives.   I say the environment is right for all this to happen now, not 3,5 or 7 years from now.

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Why would it matter if they were out buy and selling today?  IT WOULDN'T because SATAN ISN'T HERE. 

Correct, he isn't. He does not need to be here.  The a/c does not need to be here.  The Bridegroom comes when one least expects him, and that is now.

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

You can TRY AND SAY it a BILLION different ways,  but ALL THE VIRGINS WERE HERE.  DOESN'T MATTER WHEN CHRIST SHOWED UP BECAUSE HE SHOWS UP AFTER THE WORKING OF SATAN, AFTER THE VIRGINS GO TO BUY AND SELL.

Now is the time of salvation, not tomorrow.  The Bridegroom comes when no one expects it.  The King if King's and Lord of Lord's comes after Armageddon.  All know this event.

And many say that the time of the Harpozo/Rapture is given in much of Scripture.  That is a Lie.  Only the Father Knows when this event will take place.  It's description is given in Scripture, but not the exact time.  Because it is not there., Yet, it is not there.  Jesus the author of ALL Scripture said so.  Son, your Bride is ready, go and receive her.  Now He will Know.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[DeighAnn]

1 minute ago, Montana Marv said:

Then the wise virgins were here also.  They would of had to stockpiled oil it their wait. 7 years of oil to stockpile, wow.  It would have been taken away from them by the first week when the a/c arrives.   I say the environment is right for all this to happen now, not 3,5 or 7 years from now.

If the deadly wound happened on day one and the image was set up.  BUT that doesn't take place until the 2nd 1/2 of the week, does it?  So that means you would need to be prepared for 3 1/2 years, not 7, right?   How hard would that be for someone who has acquired the knowledge and wisdom of God?   And who is coming to take away anything?  People are going to be worried about themselves.   DEADLY WOUND FIXED.  SO IMPORTANT to the whole world that THEY BELIEVE THEY HAVE BEEN SAVED.  DECEPTION.  DECEPTION.  It isn't through FORCE it is through deception.  

Have you not read?   Fixes the deadly wound, PEOPLE want to worship the image, THEY ARE DECEIVED, not forced.   You even believe the LIES about what it will be to live under the beast.  NO one thinks it is the DEVIL. Not till the heavens open up and LIGHT SHINES AND shows what is really happening. 

And They will be saying???

PEACE AND SAFETY.  The two witnesses are killed because they are pointing out the truth.   The world thinks they are lying, that is why they celebrate when they are killed.  

YOU still believe ALL THE 'DYING' is 'of the flesh' when IT IS A WAR of principalities, a war FOR THE SOULS OF MEN, not their BODIES.  You believe your own hype.  Then again, why would you study what is written of those days, you aren't even going to be here....  

How do you think the FALLING AWAY is made possible?  BY EVERYONE KNOWING THE TRUTH??  Wouldn't really be DECEPTION, would it?   How many PRE TRIBS do you know think about the PROSPERITY of the world that will be taking place??  What does he do that no one before him has done?  These are the TRUTHS WRITTEN, you can go see if what I am saying is truth, UNLIKE ME BEING ABLE TO SEE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS TRUTH because what you say isn't written.  You have a 

WHY exactly do you think A BROTHER WOULD BETRAY A BROTHER?  Because he hates him, OR BECAUSE HE LOVES HIM?     You don't seem to get the meaning of the word DECEIVED.  You act like it will be a free for all for all Christians TO be beheaded because THE TRUTH is missing from the entire end times.  Do you remember Satan in the garden?  Do you remember when he tried to deceive JESUS?  

THE MYSTERY OF INIQUITY is ALREADY WORKING. 

Take us for example.  One of us is 100% on the wrong side of this right now.  But it doesn't seem to matter how much truth is used or given, it is resisted 1000 percent.  One of us would rather believe the lies. 

One of us is UNDER A DELUSION, right now, right this moment.  When asked why I believed what I believed, I will say IT IS WRITTEN.  Not sure how you would answer that question, are you?  ALL THESE WORKS, will either remain and be rewarded, or go up in smoke forever and ever and SURE will still be saved from DEATH, but no doubt as to where the 'vessels of wood and of dishonor comes from is there?  To end up NAKED rather than in CLOTHED, eternity is a long time for those who have rejected GODS TRUTH.  


Lets check the scale. 

3 1/2 years toughing it out VS eternity having endured to the end, given up my life

vs

3 1/3 years, I'll even give the '7' one would 'escape' vs eternity NOT having chosen to stand and give up my life rather than have it saved?

Ends the same every single time.  NO WAY do I want to be in the group who says 'that's just asking tooo much of me' 


PT keeps telling me being 'left behind' is some sort of torture but it is ALWAYS OF THE CARNAL BODY, but

HE WILL BE USING LYING SIGNS AND WONDERS 'to seduce'.  

he is so good the time had to be shortened or else even Gods elect would be seduced. ....no flesh saved.  No one 'alive and remaining' to be changed because they hadn't taken the mark of the beast. 

 

 2347. thlipsis ►
Strong's Concordance
thlipsis: tribulation
Original Word: θλῖψις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: thlipsis
Phonetic Spelling: (thlip'-sis)
Definition: tribulation
Usage: persecution, affliction, distress, tribulation.
HELPS Word-studies
2347 thlípsis – properly, pressure (what constricts or rubs together), used of a narrow place that "hems someone in"; tribulation, especially internal pressure that causes someone to feel confined (restricted, "without options").

2347 /thlípsis ("compression, tribulation") carries the challenge of coping with the internal pressure of a tribulation, especially when feeling there is "no way of escape" ("hemmed in").

[By contrast, 4730 (stenoxōría) focuses on the external pressure exerted by circumstances.]

THE STUFF PROMISED US as sheep led to the slaughter...
 

[farouk]

1 minute ago, DeighAnn said:

If the deadly wound happened on day one and the image was set up.  BUT that doesn't take place until the 2nd 1/2 of the week, does it?  So that means you would need to be prepared for 3 1/2 years, not 7, right?   How hard would that be for someone who has acquired the knowledge and wisdom of God?   And who is coming to take away anything?  People are going to be worried about themselves.   DEADLY WOUND FIXED.  SO IMPORTANT to the whole world that THEY BELIEVE THEY HAVE BEEN SAVED.  DECEPTION.  DECEPTION.  It isn't through FORCE it is through deception.  

Have you not read?   Fixes the deadly wound, PEOPLE want to worship the image, THEY ARE DECEIVED, not forced.   You even believe the LIES about what it will be to live under the beast.  NO one thinks it is the DEVIL. Not till the heavens open up and LIGHT SHINES AND shows what is really happening. 

And They will be saying???

PEACE AND SAFETY.  The two witnesses are killed because they are pointing out the truth.   The world thinks they are lying, that is why they celebrate when they are killed.  

YOU still believe ALL THE 'DYING' is 'of the flesh' when IT IS A WAR of principalities, a war FOR THE SOULS OF MEN, not their BODIES.  You believe your own hype.  Then again, why would you study what is written of those days, you aren't even going to be here....  

How do you think the FALLING AWAY is made possible?  BY EVERYONE KNOWING THE TRUTH??  Wouldn't really be DECEPTION, would it?   How many PRE TRIBS do you know think about the PROSPERITY of the world that will be taking place??  What does he do that no one before him has done?  These are the TRUTHS WRITTEN, you can go see if what I am saying is truth, UNLIKE ME BEING ABLE TO SEE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS TRUTH because what you say isn't written.  You have a 

WHY exactly do you think A BROTHER WOULD BETRAY A BROTHER?  Because he hates him, OR BECAUSE HE LOVES HIM?     You don't seem to get the meaning of the word DECEIVED.  You act like it will be a free for all for all Christians TO be beheaded because THE TRUTH is missing from the entire end times.  Do you remember Satan in the garden?  Do you remember when he tried to deceive JESUS?  

THE MYSTERY OF INIQUITY is ALREADY WORKING. 

Take us for example.  One of us is 100% on the wrong side of this right now.  But it doesn't seem to matter how much truth is used or given, it is resisted 1000 percent.  One of us would rather believe the lies. 

One of us is UNDER A DELUSION, right now, right this moment.  When asked why I believed what I believed, I will say IT IS WRITTEN.  Not sure how you would answer that question, are you?  ALL THESE WORKS, will either remain and be rewarded, or go up in smoke forever and ever and SURE will still be saved from DEATH, but no doubt as to where the 'vessels of wood and of dishonor comes from is there?  To end up NAKED rather than in CLOTHED, eternity is a long time for those who have rejected GODS TRUTH.  


Lets check the scale. 

3 1/2 years toughing it out VS eternity having endured to the end, given up my life

vs

3 1/3 years, I'll even give the '7' one would 'escape' vs eternity NOT having chosen to stand and give up my life rather than have it saved?

Ends the same every single time.  NO WAY do I want to be in the group who says 'that's just asking tooo much of me' 


PT keeps telling me being 'left behind' is some sort of torture but it is ALWAYS OF THE CARNAL BODY, but

HE WILL BE USING LYING SIGNS AND WONDERS 'to seduce'.  

he is so good the time had to be shortened or else even Gods elect would be seduced. ....no flesh saved.  No one 'alive and remaining' to be changed because they hadn't taken the mark of the beast. 

 

 2347. thlipsis ►
Strong's Concordance
thlipsis: tribulation
Original Word: θλῖψις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: thlipsis
Phonetic Spelling: (thlip'-sis)
Definition: tribulation
Usage: persecution, affliction, distress, tribulation.
HELPS Word-studies
2347 thlípsis – properly, pressure (what constricts or rubs together), used of a narrow place that "hems someone in"; tribulation, especially internal pressure that causes someone to feel confined (restricted, "without options").

2347 /thlípsis ("compression, tribulation") carries the challenge of coping with the internal pressure of a tribulation, especially when feeling there is "no way of escape" ("hemmed in").

[By contrast, 4730 (stenoxōría) focuses on the external pressure exerted by circumstances.]

THE STUFF PROMISED US as sheep led to the slaughter...
 

@DeighAnn It's interesting that John's First Epistle says there are already 'many antichrists' which are come into the world.....

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

Correct, he isn't. He does not need to be here.  The a/c does not need to be here.  The Bridegroom comes when one least expects him, and that is now.

How can that be NOW?  You are expecting Him, RIGHT NOW.  How can that be the LEAST EXPECTED? 

What is written about our being gathered to HIM, NOT until AFTER the workings of Satan, NOT UNTIL AFTER he has been exposed, not until AFTER the heavens are opened does He return.  

WHEN is he least expected by the world?  WHEN THEY THINK HE IS ALREADY HERE.