Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[Amazing Horse]

Jesus told us to watch for him , not to watch for antichrist , there are no instructions for what to do in tribulation for church because we are waiting for blessed hope not antichrist

Luke 21:36

Titus 2:13

There is no point in watching if antichrist has to come first , because we would see him beheading people and would not need to watch for him , he would come for us to kill us .

Edited September 7, 2017 by Amazing Horse

[Psalms37:4]

On 9/1/2017 at 10:17 PM, inchrist said:

Further in your wisdom regarding the 6th trumpet

Revelation 9:18

The number of the mounted troops was  two hundred million  . I heard their number.

17 The horses and riders I saw in my vision looked like this: Their breastplates were fiery red, dark blue, and yellow as sulfur. The heads of the horses resembled the heads of lions, and out of their mouths came fire, smoke and sulfur.  18 A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths . 19 The power of the horses was in their mouths and in their tails; for their tails were like snakes, having heads with which they inflict injury.

So you telling us we are expected to see two hundred million nukes kill a third of mankind? Aload of brown dribble.

The 200 million army is not the Kings of the East, nor is it China.

The 200 million troops is found in the 6th trumpet of Revelation 9:16. While the Kings of the East is found at the 6th vial in Revelation 16:12.

The Kings of the East is also plural, not singular. It's a coalition of countries just east of Israel within the Middle East as they prepare for war heading towards Armageddon, the 6th vial.

Revelation 16:12-16 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹² Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. ¹³ And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. ¹⁴ For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

¹⁵ “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”

¹⁶ And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.

 

The book of Daniel tells you who the Kings of the East are. It's a coalition of Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan and the 4th country is possibly Iraq.

Daniel 7:6 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁶ “After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird. The beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it. 

Daniel 8:20 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁰ The ram which you saw, having the two horns—they are the kings of Media and Persia.

 

The 200 million army is formed at the 6th trumpet. That's a huge clue of who they are because the bible tells us Jerusalem will be invaded during the 7th trumpet at the AoD. The bible in the OT also list those countries that will come against Jerusalem at that time: Turkey, Iran, Ethiopia and Libya. 

Population as of 2017:

Ethiopia.....104,344,901

Iran..............80,945,718       

Turkey.........80,417,526

Libya.............6,408,742

==================

Total............272,116,887

These four countries can easily field a 200 million army. By the time of this invasion, their total population could well reach above 300 million.

http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by-country/

 

===============================================

 

Why China is not the Kings of the East

 

The bible said the kings of the east will travel by land when the Euphrates dries up.

Revelation 16:12 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹² Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared.

To get from Beijing to Israel in a straight line is more than 4400 miles. To transport 200 million troops by land is impossible. There's just not enough gas stations along the road to transport that many troops by land that great a distance. If a military vehicle can carry 20 solders, you'll need 10,000,000 vehicles on the road. (200 million divide by 20 = 10,000,000). How many gas stations currently out there carrying 10 million gallons of gas? The only way possible to get from Beijing to Israel is by air.

 

 

Israel + China = Great Relationship

 

Israel and China a 'Marriage Made in Heaven,' Says Netanyahu

http://thediplomat.com/2017/03/israel-and-china-a-marriage-made-in-heaven-says-netanyahu/

Israel-China cooperation is ‘a marriage made in heaven’

https://worldisraelnews.com/israel-china-cooperation-is-a-marriage-made-in-heaven/

Ties between Jerusalem and Beijing have never been this strong.

http://www.thetower.org/article/chinas-deepening-interest-in-israel/

 

Netanyahu: Israel has strong relationships with China, India

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/224022

 

HOW ISRAEL USED WEAPONS AND TECHNOLOGY TO BECOME AN ALLY OF CHINA

http://www.newsweek.com/china-israel-military-technology-beijing-jerusalem-saul-eisenberg-weapons-607117

 

Israel ramps up Asia trade ties as government urges shift from EU

http://www.reuters.com/article/israel-economy-trade-asia/israel-ramps-up-asia-trade-ties-as-government-urges-shift-from-eu-idUSL6N0VC1CR20150203

 

ISRAEL-CHINA RELATIONS

http://www.timesofisrael.com/topic/israel-china-relations/

 

Moving forward as the world fast approaches the tribulation, there's no way China will attack Israel anytime in the immediate future. Both countries are highly dependent upon each other economically with Israel now being China's 3rd largest trading partner. Both countries have developed such strong ties, China has even pushed for a Israeli Palestinian Peace treaty knowing the benefits of a peaceful and thriving Israel.

 

China pushes four-point Israeli-Palestinian peace plan

https://www.timesofisrael.com/china-pushes-four-point-israeli-palestinian-peace-plan/

CHINA PUSHING ITS FOUR-POINT PEACE PLAN

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/China-pushing-their-four-point-peace-plan-501375

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2017 by Psalms37:4

[Montana Marv]

In the winepress at Armageddon blood will be as high as the horses bridle. The Valley of Migiddo is about 180 square miles. So there needs to be a lot of men and horses there. Say 2 to 3 billion people who die there.

Yet parts of Indonesia to India and Iran there is a population of over 1 and half billion people which is 1/3 of mankind at that time.

No need for gas station s, there won't be any. The great earthquake in the Seal judgements will have taken care of all of them.  Movement by ground, walk or ride animals if on the ground.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[n2thelight]

23 hours ago, Amazing Horse said:

Jesus told us to watch for him , not to watch for antichrist , there are no instructions for what to do in tribulation for church because we are waiting for blessed hope not antichrist

Luke 21:36

Titus 2:13

There is no point in watching if antichrist has to come first , because we would see him beheading people and would not need to watch for him , he would come for us to kill us .

satan is coming pretending to be Christ,ain't no head chopping...He also said to watch for the events(signs) leading up to His return.

satan coming before Christ is one of them........

[Amazing Horse]

57 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

satan is coming pretending to be Christ,ain't no head chopping...He also said to watch for the events(signs) leading up to His return.

satan coming before Christ is one of them........

If you think so then how could he come as thief in night that nobody see him 1 Thessalonians 5:2 and also everybody see him Revelation 1:7 ?

Let's not forget about this verse where people will marry , have sex , trade , drink and eat .

Matthew 24:38-39

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

So there will be battle of Armageddon , everybody killing themselfes and fighting then Jesus by your logic would need to make 5 min break before killing all of his enemies  and stop the war , so people can go have sex , marry , shopping drink and eat so this verse can be fullfilled ? There would have to be shopping mall in middle of desert so they could go shopping , also church so they could marry , because as seen in Matthew 5:18 everything must be fullfilled  i guess .

Edited September 8, 2017 by Amazing Horse

[Psalms37:4]

Revelation 14:20 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁰ And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses’ bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs.

 

Unfortunately Rev 14:20 is a prophecy about Jerusalem and not Armageddon. If one reads it carefully, it said the winepress was trampled "outside the city." People need to realize Armageddon is not the only place Jesus will be when He comes to judge the world. Joel 3 gives more clarity on the location of where this takes place. It'll happen in the Valley of Jehoshaphat, which is a location 2 miles southeast of ancient Jerusalem. There will be gathered multitudes and multitudes in the Valley of Decision, which is another name for the Valley of Jehoshaphat. 

 

Joel 3:12-16 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹² “Let the nations be wakened, and come up to the Valley of Jehoshaphat;
For there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations.
¹³ Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe.
Come, go down;
For the winepress is full,
The vats overflow—
For their wickedness is  great.”

¹⁴ Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision!
For the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.
¹⁵ The sun and moon will grow dark,
And the stars will diminish their brightness.
¹⁶ The Lord also will roar from Zion,
And utter His voice from Jerusalem;
The heavens and earth will shake;
But the Lord will be a shelter for His people,
And the strength of the children of Israel.

http://bibleatlas.org/valley_of_jehoshaphat.htm

 

The Valley of Josaphat (variants: Valley of Jehoshaphat and Valley of Yehoshephat) is a Biblical place mentioned by name in Joel 3:2 and Joel 3:12: "I will gather together all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Josaphat: "Then I will enter into judgment with them there", on behalf of my people and for My inheritance Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations and they have divided up My land."; "Let the nations be roused; Let the nations be aroused And come up to the Valley of Jehoshaphat, for there I will sit to judge all the nations on every side". This location is also referred to as the Valley of Decision.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_of_Josaphat

In this historic map of biblical Jerusalem, the Cedron valley (German Kidron Thal oder Josaphat Thal - Kidron Valley or Josaphat Valley) runs along the eastern wall of the city 

 

Isaiah 29:2 (GNT) and then God will bring disaster on the city that is called "God's altar." There will be weeping and wailing, and the whole city will be like an altar covered with blood.

Isaiah 29:2 (NLT) Yet I will bring disaster upon you, and there will be much weeping and sorrow. For Jerusalem will become what her name Ariel means— an altar covered with blood.

Isaiah 29:2 (NIRV) The LORD says, "Ariel, I will surround you. Jerusalem, I will get ready to attack you. Your people will sob. They will sing songs of sadness. I will make you like the front of an altar that is covered with blood.

Isaiah 29:2 (MSG) But I'm not letting up on Jerusalem. The moaning and groaning will continue. Jerusalem to me is an Ariel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2017 by Psalms37:4

[Montana Marv]

4 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

The Valley of Josaphat (variants: Valley of Jehoshaphat and Valley of Yehoshephat) is a Biblical place mentioned by name in Joel 3:2 and Joel 3:12: "I will gather together all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Josaphat: "Then I will enter into judgment with them there", on behalf of my people and for My inheritance Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations and they have divided up My land."; "Let the nations be roused; Let the nations be aroused And come up to the Valley of Jehoshaphat, for there I will sit to judge all the nations on every side". This location is also referred to as the Valley of Decision.

This is where Christ judges the nations of the world.  Look closely "for there I will sit to judge all the nations on every side".  Here Christ is sitting, He is not riding the Victor's horse waging war, which He rode at the Battle of Armageddon.  The Valley of Meggido  is a natural battlefield. Two Billion people plus animals could die in this event.  The Armies will come out of the East, North, West (Antichrist's army) and the South.  It could easily take 30 days for the last of these armies to cross into Armageddon because of the masses of people.  This is not a one day event.

After things are done Christ Sits.  When He ascended into heaven He sat at the right hand of God, for all He needed to do at that time had be accomplished.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Psalms37:4]

15 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

The Valley of Meggido  is a natural battlefield. Two Billion people plus animals could die in this event.  The Armies will come out of the East, North, West (Antichrist's army) and the South.  It could easily take 30 days for the last of these armies to cross into Armageddon because of the masses of people.  This is not a one day event.

After things are done Christ Sits. 

You're off buddy! Did you forget something? The tribulation doesn't end after the battle of Armageddon. You still have the 7th bowl, which is a great hurricane, one that will produce 100 pound hails and massive flooding. At Armageddon, Christ destroys the a/c, his army and the armies of His other enemies. You still have civilians on earth who are enemies of Christ that has to be dealt with.

 

Revelation 16:21 New King James Version (NKJV)

²¹ And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.

 

Isaiah 30:30 New King James Version (NKJV)

³⁰ The Lord will cause His glorious voice to be heard,
And show the descent of His arm,
With the indignation of His anger
And the flame of a devouring fire,
With scattering, tempest, and hailstones.

 

Psalm 83:14-17 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁴ As the fire burns the woods,
And as the flame sets the mountains on fire,
¹⁵ So pursue them with Your tempest,
And frighten them with Your storm.
¹⁶ Fill their faces with shame,
That they may seek Your name, O Lord.
¹⁷ Let them be confounded and dismayed forever;
Yes, let them be put to shame and perish,

 

Jeremiah 30:23-24 New King James Version (NKJV)

²³ Behold, the whirlwind of the Lord
Goes forth with fury,
A continuing whirlwind;
It will fall violently on the head of the wicked.
²⁴ The fierce anger of the Lord will not return until He has done it,
And until He has performed the intents of His heart.

In the latter days you will consider it.

 

Jeremiah 25:32 New King James Version (NKJV)

³² Thus says the Lord of hosts:

“Behold, disaster shall go forth
From nation to nation,
And a great whirlwind shall be raised up
From the farthest parts of the earth.

 

Isaiah 28:2 New King James Version (NKJV)

² Behold, the Lord has a mighty and strong one,
Like a tempest of hail and a destroying storm,
Like a flood of mighty waters overflowing,
Who will bring them down to the earth with His hand.

 

The tribulation (Daniel's 70th week) ends with thunderstorms and flooding. Not by fire or Armageddon. It'll start with a shake and bake and end with a splash.

 

Daniel 9:26 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁶ “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

Matthew 24:27 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁷ For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

 

Revelation 1:7 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁷ Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

 

Hosea 6:1-3 New King James Version (NKJV)

6 Come, and let us return to the Lord;
For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
² After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.
³ Let us know,
Let us pursue the knowledge of the Lord.
His going forth is established as the morning;
He will come to us like the rain,
Like the latter and former rain to the earth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2017 by Psalms37:4

[Psalms37:4]

1 hour ago, inchrist said:

Thats because there are 2 trumpet sounds

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, (trumpet sound 1)

Rev 11:12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

 with the voice of the archangel 

Heres the archangels voice

Rev 14:15 Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe

Rev 14:15 is not an archangel.

Where's your scriptural evidence telling us the voices of the "archangels" like Michael and Gabriel sounds like that of a trumpet? It's getting blatantly obvious you're willing to say anything to make your 7th trumpet rapture and second coming to work. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2017 by Psalms37:4

[Psalms37:4]

1 hour ago, inchrist said:

But suppose the servant says to himself, 'My master is taking a long time in coming,' and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk.The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

 

This is how Christ deals with the unbelievers

 

What makes you think the servant in Matthew 24:48-51 is an unbelievers? 

What makes you think your faith is better than this servant? What makes you think your faith is greater than a mustard seed? Have you moved any mountains lately?

 

Matthew 17:17-20 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁷ Then Jesus answered and said, “O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me.” ¹⁸ And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him; and the child was cured from that very hour.

¹⁹ Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, “Why could we not cast it out?”

²⁰ So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.

 

 

Jesus here wasn't talking about childlike faith. You don't get to go to heaven believing in Santa Claus. So what makes you think your faith is better than the servant in Matthew 24:48-51.

Matthew 18:3-4 New King James Version (NKJV)

³ and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. ⁴ Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2017 by Psalms37:4