Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[Psalms37:4]

16 hours ago, inchrist said:

The only logical, and scriptualy sound interpretation of Mark and matthew is the following

Mark 13:27 - And he will send his angels and gather his elect from around the globe from one end to the other

Again I'm asking you, which translation is this taken from or are you just fabricating the bible again this time changing the wordings in Mark 13:27?

 

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then we must conclude the church is the 12 tribes of Israel

Unbelievable! So now the church is the 12 tribes of Israel. Why don't you just throw the gentile church out the window as if we never existed.

We've already conclude your teachings are falsely misleading, sinister and destructive to other readers who are easy preys that don't know any better. 

Readers beware!

Romans 16:17-18 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁷ Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. ¹⁸ For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.

Acts 20:29 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁹ For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.

Ephesians 5:11 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹¹ And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

2 John 10 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁰ If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;

Titus 1:10-14 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁰ For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, ¹¹ whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain. ¹² One of them, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” ¹³ This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, ¹⁴ not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by Psalms37:4

[Kris]

This writing is to examine the main viewpoints on when the Rapture occurs with regard to the time of the final seven years of human history, before Jesus Christ returns in the Second Coming. These final seven years are technically the 70th Week of the Seventy Weeks prophecy in Daniel chapter 9, also known as The Tribulation or the “time of Jacob’s trouble.”

A quick understanding of what follows is that we will be using the logic of cause-and-effect, which is how our entire universe operates. For example, when we see “this” cause, then we also will see “that” effect. This cause-and-effect also works to help determine when the Rapture occurs in relation to the time of the Tribulation. There are four main viewpoints:

1) Pre-Trib (the Rapture happens before the Tribulation)
2) Mid-Trib (the Rapture happens at the middle of the Tribulation)
3) Pre-Wrath (the Rapture happens after the middle but before the end)
4) Post-Trib (the Rapture happens at the end of the Tribulation)

http://www.raptureready.com/2017/10/01/cause-effect-proving-rapture-correct-paul-kocourek/

[Psalms37:4]

On 10/4/2017 at 5:22 AM, inchrist said:

All the translations....so now what?

Who exactly do you think you're trying to deceive here, the new readers that haven't read your prior posts not knowing what's going on or the things you're teaching?

This is the translation you wrote, or should I say fabricated: 

On 10/1/2017 at 8:31 AM, inchrist said:

Mark 13:27 - And he will send his angels and gather his elect from around the globe from one end to the other

These are what other translations say. A good majority of them all say "from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven"  KJV. 

None of them say "from the globe" nor "from one end to the other" as you just did in your man-made bible of this passage.

http://biblehub.com/mark/13-27.htm

New International Version
And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

New Living Translation
And he will send out his angels to gather his chosen ones from all over the world--from the farthest ends of the earth and heaven.

English Standard Version
And then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

Berean Study Bible
And He will send out the angels to gather His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

Berean Literal Bible
And then He will send the angels and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the end of earth to the end of heaven.

New American Standard Bible 
"And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.

King James Bible
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
He will send out the angels and gather His elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of the sky. 

International Standard Version
He'll send out his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven."

NET Bible
Then he will send angels and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven. 

New Heart English Bible
Then he will send out his angels, and will gather together his chosen ones from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the sky.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Then he will send his Angels and gather his elect ones from the four winds and the bottom of the earth even unto the top of Heaven.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
He will send out his angels, and from every direction under the sky, they will gather those whom God has chosen.

New American Standard 1977 
“And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth, to the farthest end of heaven.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And then shall he send his angels and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth unto the uttermost part of the heaven.

King James 2000 Bible
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

American King James Version
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

American Standard Version
And then shall he send forth the angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. 

Darby Bible Translation
and then shall he send his angels and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from end of earth to end of heaven.

English Revised Version
And then shall he send forth the angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Webster's Bible Translation
And then he will send his angels, and will assemble his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Weymouth New Testament
Then He will send forth the angels and gather together His chosen People from north, south, east and west, from the remotest parts of the earth and the sky.

World English Bible
Then he will send out his angels, and will gather together his chosen ones from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the sky.

Young's Literal Translation
and then he shall send his messengers, and gather together his chosen from the four winds, from the end of the earth unto the end of heaven.

 

 

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Let me guess your next move is that it states "one end of the earth to the ends of the sky"

And what does that mean? Hey? Do ylu know what that verse means?

What does from one end of the earth to the sky mean?

Did you think about that next step? No clearly not.

Then you going to tell me it means the Israelites are gathered from the earth and the church saibts are gathered from gods abode

Then im going to ask you what translation states that....

This is called circular reasoning....its stupid.

Don't pat yourself on the back too hard making yourself sound like a prophet who can guess how I'll respond next because we've already went through this a few days ago. All you ended up doing was ignore the scriptures I've shown you because you had no answer. You'll have to try harder and smarter, and wake up very early in the morning to fool this old dog.

I'll repeat this again, in Mark 13:27 the elects of the church are being gathered from heaven and the elects on earth who are the remnants of Israel are being gathered from all over th world.

Mark 13:27 King James Version (KJV)

²⁷ And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The elects of the church are raptured, taken into heaven and told to wait until after the indignation in Isaiah 26:19-20. If Christ doesn't send His angels back up to heaven to bring the elects waiting there till after the indignation, how will Christ come with "ALL" of His saints? Zech 14:5

Did you think the bible meant Jesus will come with some of His saints when it said all?

Matthew 24:31 King James Version (KJV)

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Isaiah 26:19-21 King James Version (KJV)

¹⁹ Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

²⁰ Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

²¹ For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

 

 

Inchrist, how do you get a post-trib rapture if the elects on earth (the remnants of Israel) are being gathered to Christ fleeing and not flying. In a rapture, people are being "caught up" into the air. Shouldn't Zechariah 14:4-5 describe the saints flying instead of fleeing?

Do you understand what Zechariah 14:4-5 is telling you? How can there be a rapture during the gathering after the tribulation if no one goes up into the air. Those being gathered on earth are on foot fleeing.

Zechariah 14:4-5 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁴ And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
⁵ Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.

 

Now if there's a post-trib rapture during the second coming, why does it say His saints are fleeing? In a rapture, shouldn't Christians be flying in the air to Jesus instead? This version of the second coming also shows Jesus meeting the saints on the Mount of Olives, not in the air in the rapture found in 1 Thes 4:16-17.

They are clearly traveling on land by foot as described in Zechariah 14:4-5.

 

inchrist, how do you get a post-trib rapture when the elects on earth are traveling to Jesus by foot at the second coming? Below are more scriptures on the remnant of Israel being gather after the tribulation, do you see anyone flying in the air or anyone being caught up to meet Jesus in the air?

Ezekiel 39:21-29 New King James Version (NKJV)

²¹ “I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them. ²² So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward. ²³ The Gentiles shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity; because they were unfaithful to Me, therefore I hid My face from them. I gave them into the hand of their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. ²⁴ According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I have dealt with them, and hidden My face from them.”’

²⁵ “Therefore thus says the Lord God: ‘Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name— ²⁶ after they have borne their shame, and all their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, when they dwelt safely in their own land and no one made them afraid. ²⁷ When I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and I am hallowed in them in the sight of many nations, ²⁸ then they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who sent them into captivity among the nations, but also brought them back to their land, and left none of them captive any longer. ²⁹ And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ says the Lord God.”

 

Isaiah 49:8-26 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁸ Thus says the Lord:

“In an acceptable time I have heard You,
And in the day of salvation I have helped You;
I will preserve You and give You
As a covenant to the people,
To restore the earth,
To cause them to inherit the desolate heritages;
⁹ That You may say to the prisoners, ‘Go forth,’
To those who are in darkness, ‘Show yourselves.’

“They shall feed along the roads,
And their pastures shall be on all desolate heights.
¹⁰ They shall neither hunger nor thirst,
Neither heat nor sun shall strike them;
For He who has mercy on them will lead them,
Even by the springs of water He will guide them.
¹¹ I will make each of My mountains a road,
And My highways shall be elevated.
¹² Surely these shall come from afar;
Look! Those from the north and the west,
And these from the land of Sinim.”

¹³ Sing, O heavens!
Be joyful, O earth!
And break out in singing, O mountains!
For the Lord has comforted His people,
And will have mercy on His afflicted.

¹⁴ But Zion said, “The Lord has forsaken me,
And my Lord has forgotten me.”
¹⁵ “Can a woman forget her nursing child,
And not have compassion on the son of her womb?
Surely they may forget,
Yet I will not forget you.
¹⁶ See, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands;
Your walls are continually before Me.
¹⁷ Your sons shall make haste;
Your destroyers and those who laid you waste
Shall go away from you.
¹⁸ Lift up your eyes, look around and see;
All these gather together and come to you.
As I live,” says the Lord,
“You shall surely clothe yourselves with them all as an ornament,
And bind them on you as a bride does.

¹⁹ “For your waste and desolate places,
And the land of your destruction,
Will even now be too small for the inhabitants;
And those who swallowed you up will be far away.
²⁰ The children you will have,
After you have lost the others,
Will say again in your ears,
‘The place is too small for me;
Give me a place where I may dwell.’
²¹ Then you will say in your heart,
‘Who has begotten these for me,
Since I have lost my children and am desolate,
A captive, and wandering to and fro?
And who has brought these up?
There I was, left alone;
But these, where were they?’”

²² Thus says the Lord God:

“Behold, I will lift My hand in an oath to the nations,
And set up My standard for the peoples;
They shall bring your sons in their arms,
And your daughters shall be carried on theirshoulders;
²³ Kings shall be your foster fathers,
And their queens your nursing mothers;
They shall bow down to you with their faces to the earth,
And lick up the dust of your feet.
Then you will know that I am the Lord,
For they shall not be ashamed who wait for Me.”

²⁴ Shall the prey be taken from the mighty,
Or the captives of the righteous be delivered?

²⁵ But thus says the Lord:

“Even the captives of the mighty shall be taken away,
And the prey of the terrible be delivered;
For I will contend with him who contends with you,
And I will save your children.
²⁶ I will feed those who oppress you with their own flesh,
And they shall be drunk with their own blood as with sweet wine.
All flesh shall know
That I, the Lord, am your Savior,
And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.”

 

Jeremiah 32:37-42 New King James Version (NKJV)

³⁷ Behold, I will gather them out of all countries where I have driven them in My anger, in My fury, and in great wrath; I will bring them back to this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely. ³⁸ They shall be My people, and I will be their God; ³⁹ then I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me forever, for the good of them and their children after them. ⁴⁰ And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me. ⁴¹ Yes, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will assuredly plant them in this land, with all My heart and with all My soul.’

⁴² “For thus says the Lord: ‘Just as I have brought all this great calamity on this people, so I will bring on them all the good that I have promised them.

 

Isaiah 27:12-13 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹² And it shall come to pass in that day
That the Lord will thresh,
From the channel of the River to the Brook of Egypt;
And you will be gathered one by one,
O you children of Israel.

¹³ So it shall be in that day:
The great trumpet will be blown;
They will come, who are about to perish in the land of Assyria,
And they who are outcasts in the land of Egypt,
And shall worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem.

 

Zephaniah 3:8-20 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁸ “Therefore wait for Me,” says the Lord,
“Until the day I rise up for plunder;
My determination is to gather the nations
To My assembly of kingdoms,
To pour on them My indignation,
All My fierce anger;
All the earth shall be devoured
With the fire of My jealousy.
⁹ “For then I will restore to the peoples a pure language,
That they all may call on the name of the Lord,
To serve Him with one accord.
¹⁰ From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia
My worshipers,
The daughter of My dispersed ones,
Shall bring My offering.
¹¹ In that day you shall not be shamed for any of your deeds
In which you transgress against Me;
For then I will take away from your midst
Those who rejoice in your pride,
And you shall no longer be haughty
In My holy mountain.
¹² I will leave in your midst
A meek and humble people,
And they shall trust in the name of the Lord.
¹³ The remnant of Israel shall do no unrighteousness
And speak no lies,
Nor shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth;
For they shall feed their flocks and lie down,
And no one shall make them afraid.”

¹⁴ Sing, O daughter of Zion!
Shout, O Israel!
Be glad and rejoice with all your heart,
O daughter of Jerusalem!
¹⁵ The Lord has taken away your judgments,
He has cast out your enemy.
The King of Israel, the Lord, is in your midst;
You shall see disaster no more.

¹⁶ In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem:
“Do not fear;
Zion, let not your hands be weak.
¹⁷ The Lord your God in your midst,
The Mighty One, will save;
He will rejoice over you with gladness,
He will quiet you with His love,
He will rejoice over you with singing.”

¹⁸ “I will gather those who sorrow over the appointed assembly,
Who are among you,
To whom its reproach is a burden.
¹⁹ Behold, at that time
I will deal with all who afflict you;
I will save the lame,
And gather those who were driven out;
I will appoint them for praise and fame
In every land where they were put to shame.
²⁰ At that time I will bring you back,
Even at the time I gather you;
For I will give you fame and praise
Among all the peoples of the earth,
When I return your captives before your eyes,”
Says the Lord.

 

Micah 2:12 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹² “I will surely assemble all of you, O Jacob,
I will surely gather the remnant of Israel;
I will put them together like sheep of the fold,
Like a flock in the midst of their pasture;
They shall make a loud noise because of so many people.

 

Jeremiah 50:4-5 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁴ “In those days and in that time,” says the Lord,
“The children of Israel shall come,
They and the children of Judah together;
With continual weeping they shall come,
And seek the Lord their God.
⁵ They shall ask the way to Zion,
With their faces toward it, saying,
‘Come and let us join ourselves to the Lord
In a perpetual covenant
That will not be forgotten.’

 

Psalm 106:46-47 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁴⁶ He also made them to be pitied
By all those who carried them away captive.

⁴⁷ Save us, O Lord our God,
And gather us from among the Gentiles,
To give thanks to Your holy name,
To triumph in Your praise.

 

Amos 9:11-15 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹¹ “On that day I will raise up
The tabernacle of David, which has fallen down,
And repair its damages;
I will raise up its ruins,
And rebuild it as in the days of old;
¹² That they may possess the remnant of Edom,
And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,”
Says the Lord who does this thing.

¹³ “Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord,
“When the plowman shall overtake the reaper,
And the treader of grapes him who sows seed;
The mountains shall drip with sweet wine,
And all the hills shall flow with it.
¹⁴ I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;
They shall build the waste cities and inhabitthem;
They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;
They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.
¹⁵ I will plant them in their land,
And no longer shall they be pulled up
From the land I have given them,”
Says the Lord your God.

 

 

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you walked into that one,

Correct the church is not the 12 tribes of Israel, so why are the 12 tribes mentioned of the bride?

pause and let that penny drop.

You totally stuck your foot in your mouth big time here. It's figuratively comparing the beauty and elegance of the New Jerusalem decked in righteousness as a worthy bride.

Do you have any idea what the brightness means in the robe the bride is wearing? I don't think so, even if the answer was staring right in front of you. I'll bet you your man-made bible you'll ignore this question too.

Revelation 19:7-8 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁷ Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” ⁸ And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

 

Other than telling us it's describing a city, I'll bet you your man-made bible you don't know what Revelation 21:9-21 is really telling us............so now what?

Revelation 21:2 New King James Version (NKJV)

² Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Psalms37:4

[Psalms37:4]

On 10/6/2017 at 11:18 PM, inchrist said:

I am not POST TRIB..... How many times must I tell you this? ..... I AM PRE BOWL

 

7th trumpet is the rapture (christs first bride).....then comes 7 bowls of wrath then comes rev 19 the second coming (Christs second bride).

 

For some reason you keep placing me in the post trib box, why?

Well duh! Than why are you constantly arguing with me when I'm telling everyone Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27 is NOT the rapture? 

 

 

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How does posting the translations of the phrase from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven" refute the meaning of the globe? What next...you want to post them in different colors? will that refute the meaning?

None of the other translations say "from the globe" nor "from one end to the other" as you did in your man-made bible of this passage.

These are what other translations say. A good majority of them all say "from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven"  KJV. 

http://biblehub.com/mark/13-27.htm

Now do you get it?

 

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Again I find you unable to offer any rebuttal on the interpretation of the phrase.

You've been debunked so many times but refuse to acknowledge what the bible clearly tells us. The only one you'll listen to is just yourself.

Isaiah 26:19-21 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁹ Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.

²⁰ Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.

²¹ For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her blood,
And will no more cover her slain.

 

inchrist, why don't you answer this if you don't think you've already been refuted.

Now if Christ's angels are not sent to heaven (Matthew 24:31, Mark 13:27) to gather those waiting there till after the indignation, show me scriptures revealing all those being rapture stays in heaven for the next 1000 years during Christ's reign on earth.

Who's gonna go get them if they're told to wait in heaven till after the indignation? 

There has to be a gathering from heaven too.

Matthew 24:31 New King James Version (NKJV)

³¹ And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:27 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁷ And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

 

 

 

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You can"t accuse me of Fabrication, when you don't even know what the word interpretation means in the first place.

 - four winds  &  from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens  is a phraseology to mean the globe

You're fabricating scriptures. There is no translation that uses the word "the globe" for Mark 13:27. 

On 10/1/2017 at 8:31 AM, inchrist said:

Further in Mark, the context of the phrase four winds is the ends of the Earth & Sky. This is a phrase to describe the globe

In short Mark and Matthew are telling us the following:

Mark 13:27 - And he will send his angels and gather his elect from around the globe from one end to the other

 

Mark 13:27 specifically indicates the gathering of the elects are from two locations: heaven and earth, which is consistent and in harmony with Isaiah 26:20 telling us those taken into heaven are to wait till after the indignation.

You're altering Mark 13:27 trying to make others believe the angels gathers only from the earth leaving those in heaven waiting with no one coming for them, completely ignoring what Isaiah 26:20 say.

 

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Since Mark 13:27 is the exact parallel of Matthew 24:31 we have the following from the academia world

Richard Francis Weymouth, The New Testament in Modern Speech, writes: “…from north, south, east and west, from one extremity of the earth to the other.” 

The Four Gospels, renders it this way: “…from one horizon to the other…” 

The Broadman Bible Commentary adds in volume 8, page 220, that Christ’s coming is “in judgment… [and] to gather his elect from all parts of the world.”  It adds on page 377 that “‘the four winds’ here means simply the four directions or points of the compass. Similarly, ‘from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven’ must mean ‘from everywhere,’ though the first phrase may refer particularly to all the land mass east of Palestine, and the second to the horizons of the west, where lay the blue waters of the Mediterranean

Albert Barnes’ Notes on the Bible gives the following additional explanation to Matthew 24:31:

“‘From the four winds’ – That is, from the four quarters of the globe – east, west, north, and south. The Jews expressed those quarters by the winds blowing from them… ‘From one end of heaven, etc.’ – Mark says [in Mark 13:27],  from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. The expression denotes that they shall be gathered from all parts of the earth… The word ‘heaven’ is used here to denote the ‘visible’ heavens or the sky, meaning that through ‘the whole world’ he would gather them.”

Why don't you copy and paste from a credible source and provide a link for other readers to see and judge for themselves, unless you got something to hide. Anyone can go buy a software from Walmart and create a website and form their own opinions online. People also create videos daily on Youtube and already think they're pros.

If you want an infallible source of information, quote scriptures like these passages that tells us those taken into heaven are waiting for someone to get them after the tribulation, not opinions from some guy you have absolutely no idea who he is. 

Isaiah 26:20 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁰ Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.

 

Matthew 24:29-31 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁹ “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. ³⁰ Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. ³¹ And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

 

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The following church are being gathered from heaven and the elects on earth who are the remnants of Israel is called eisegesis

inchrist, answer this question.

If no one is being gathered from heaven after the tribulation, than how do you get a rapture? Where do people go when they get rapture? Show me a verse that said there's a U-turn in the sky during the rapture.

 

 

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Isaiah 26:19-21 is not for the church, what you are conducting is replacement theology

So than who are those taken into heaven at the rapture?

1) The Israelis?

2) The Muslims?

3) The Atheists?

 

You can't figure out who they are by reading about The Guy who comes down from heaven to judge the world and slay the a/c who calls them my people?

Read below, who else can it be that gets taken into heaven before the tribulation? How many guesses do you need?

Isaiah 26:19-27:1 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁹ Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.

²⁰ Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.
²¹ For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her blood,
And will no more cover her slain.

27 In that day the Lord with His severe sword, great and strong,
Will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent,
Leviathan that twisted serpent;
And He will slay the reptile that is in the sea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Psalms37:4

[Psalms37:4]

On 10/6/2017 at 11:18 PM, inchrist said:

7th trumpet is the rapture (christs first bride).....then comes 7 bowls of wrath then comes rev 19 the second coming (Christs second bride).

Let me guess, this must be your version of exegesis.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Psalms37:4]

On 10/8/2017 at 2:32 AM, inchrist said:

Matthew 24:31 & mark 13:27 are rapture doctrines.

You're not being truthful here. A few days ago you argued that you're not post-trib but here you continue promoting a post-trib rapture. And there's no such thing as two raptures.

 

On 10/6/2017 at 11:18 PM, inchrist said:

False - I have not ignored any scriptures you have given me, you are simply asking the wrong questions. I am not POST TRIB..... How many times must I tell you this? ..... I AM PRE BOWL

7th trumpet is the rapture (christs first bride).....then comes 7 bowls of wrath then comes rev 19 the second coming (Christs second bride).

 

For some reason you keep placing me in the post trib box, why?

 

I am not POST TRIB .... I AM PRE BOWL.... ask me questions pertaining to my eschatology. I DO NOT answer for the post tribs.

 

I am not POST TRIB .... I AM PRE BOWL.... ask me questions pertaining to my eschatology. I DO NOT answer for the post tribs.

 

 

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The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. 

“He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.

this of cause flies in the face of your ridiculous opinion, that Christ does the gathering all by himself in 1 Th 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

There are several passages telling us angels carrying individuals for various reasons but none of them are rapture scriptures. The parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is not about the rapture. You're not promoting biblical truth.

In the rapture, the elects are "caught up" not "carried up by angels" to meet the Lord in the air. You're imposing upon scripture based on personal speculation, purely eisegesis.

 In the rapture, Jesus does the gathering from earth.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁶ For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. ¹⁷ Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

In the second coming, the angels does the gathering from heaven. Two completely different events.

Matthew 24:31 New King James Version (NKJV)

³¹ And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

 

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I would suggest you get a second opinion - Because Thats another lie and this below is also another lie:-

This is false, and a violation of Matthew 7 and the 9th commandment.

Matthew 7:1-5 New King James Version (NKJV)

7 “Judge not, that you be not judged. ² For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.³ And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? ⁴ Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye?⁵ Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

 

 

Quote

R. Joseph taught: "What is the meaning of the verse, 'And none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning?' (Exodus 12:22)¹ Once permission has been granted to the destroyer, he does not distinguish between the righteous and the wicked. Indeed, he even begins with the righteous."² Commenting on Exodus 33:5 ("If for a single moment I should go up among you, I would consume you"), the midrash says: "Yahweh means he could wax wroth with you for a moment -- for that is the length of his wrath, as is said in Isaiah 26:20, 'Hide yourselves for a little moment until the wrath is is past' -- and destroy you." Yahweh gives warning here of his unbridled irascibility. If in this moment of divine wrath a curse is uttered, it will indubitably be effective. 

No where in Jewish teachings do they understand this to be a rapture verse. in fact they went exegesis to look at this meaning with EXODUS 12:22, EXODUS 12:22 is not a rapture event.

Here's the website you copied and pasted from. 

http://www.anesi.com/q0029.htm

This site isn't telling you "No where in Jewish teachings do they understand this to be a rapture verse." You added that yourself.

The guy in the link is commenting on Exodus 12:22, not the rapture. And he's also not a Jew. Basically you just posted a wrong website and added your own interpretation.

 

 

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I dont answer post trib questions, should I ask you prewrath questions or mid trib questions?

You mean you don't have an answer when questioned about the rapture. But you certainly love to promote a post-trib rapture and debunk your other rapture view at the 7th trumpet. One cannot have two raptures and still be right.

Now how hard is it to answer a few simple rapture question?

1) If there's a rapture (regardless of timing), that would mean people will be taken into heaven. Yes or No inchrist?

2) If there's a rapture, that would also mean someone has to go gather them from heaven. Yes or No inchrist?

3) Now if those taken to heaven must wait there till after the indignation (Isaiah 26:20), shouldn't there be somebody going to gather them after the tribulation (Matthew 24:31)? Yes or No inchrist?

Isaiah 26:20 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁰ Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.

Matthew 24:31 New King James Version (NKJV)

³¹ And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

Are you gonna ignore this again inchrist?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by Psalms37:4

[Psalms37:4]

 

Quote

Richard Francis Weymouth NT is free on line http://www.biblestudytools.com/wnt/

31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet-blast, and they will bring together His own People to Him from north, south, east and west--from one extremity of the world to the other.

That verse is from the Weymouth NT translation. Why that translation that nobody uses?

Why not quote Matthew 24:31 from the two most reliable and credible English translations available? You know, the ones with the least amount of errors.

Matthew 24:31 New King James Version (NKJV)

³¹ And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 24:31 King James Version (KJV)

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Honestly how long did it take you looking for a translation to say what you wanted it to say and still couldn't find one that uses the word "globe" in it? Is the Weymouth NT version the closest thing out there?

 

Quote

 

There is no gathering of saints in Gods abode in Mark or Matthew, this is simply a figment of your own imagination, there is in the language USED by Mark and Matthew a gathering from Earth and in the sky being from the entire globe.

None of this is my own opinion as you so claim.

If you try looking a little harder, you can see it actually said "heaven (as the abode of God)" from that source you pasted.

It's telling you the heaven in Matthew 24:31 can mean heaven where God dwells.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by Psalms37:4

[Psalms37:4]

On 10/8/2017 at 2:34 AM, inchrist said:

No thats called eschatology

This is exegesis of my eschatology

The Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins
25 “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.

6 “And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming;[a] go out to meet him!’ 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.

11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.  

Interesting you would pick this parable of all the scriptures and parables in the entire bible. The message behind this parable is a dire warning about those being foolish and left behind.  An interesting parallel or just a coincidence?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Justin Adams]

Ok. Now soon to be 'rapture 101'

I am learning to look at the Aramaic. Please explain this to me. (it is just after all the bad stuff) Matt: 24

29 But immediately after the suffering of those days, the sun will darken and the moon will not show its light, and the stars will fall from the heavens and the power of the heavens will be disturbed. 30 And then the sign of The Son of Man in Heaven will appear and then all the families of the earth will mourn, and they will see The Son of Man who comes on the clouds of Heaven with miracles and many praises. 31 And he will send his Angels with great trumpets, and they will gather his own elect from the four winds, from all the ends of the heavens.

Angels gather it seems.

37 But just as the days of Noah, so will the coming of The Son of Man be. 38 For just as they were eating and drinking before the flood, and they were taking wives, and they were taking husbands, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 And they did not perceive until the flood came and took them all away, thus will be the coming of The Son of Man. 40 Then two will be in the field; one will be taken captive, and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken captive and one will be left.

42 Wake up therefore, for you do not know in what hour your Lord will come. 

But then I note that he talks of 'taking away' and 'captives'. I.e. in Noah's day the ones 'taken away' were the ungodly that were killed in the flood and aftermath. 'They' were doing this, 'they' were doing that, then 'they' appear to be 'captured'. So 'capture' cannot be 'rapture' surely? Or is it just hyperbole?

[Psalms37:4]

On 10/9/2017 at 12:45 PM, inchrist said:

or the foolish notion of anti semitic rejections of Jewish idioms 

Dude, don't tell me I'm anti semitic. That's offensive and you don't know me. God as my witness, I stand behind Israel and the Jewish people 110% and plan to live their after the tribulation.