Why Resurrection?

[Resurrection Priest]

3 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Re-generated. Born anew from above. genethe anothen. No one gets saved apart from regeneration, yes? 

Yes.  Agreed.  I believe the spirit of God inspired the thief to "see" that Jesus was indeed the Son of God.  He believed because the Father drew him to Christ.  In that sense, the thief WAS re-generated.  He was not what he would one day become - in the kingdom, but he had begun the process.  That is really all that we do here in this life.  We begin the process.  The millennium will be a thousand years of education and healing for all of the saved.  I do not personally believe the LORD instantly or fully changes a person at the first moment that they believe.  I don't believe He will do that when we are raised to eternal life.  I believe it is a process of learning and healing.  

If He was going to manipulate the mind like that, then He could have done it in the first place, with Adam and Eve, and skipped all this painful mess. 

That's just me.  

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

I understand that Jesus was without sin.

Then the Father "made Him to be sin" - for us.

2 Corinthians 5:21 "For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

Then the Father raised His Son from the dead.  

Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead)

QUESTION:  Do you believe "the bosom of Abraham" is a different place from Heaven, or from Christ's Kingdom?

QUESTION:  Do you believe that Jesus went somewhere - consciously - while He was "dead" and His body lay in tomb?  

Abraham was the Patriarch of Righteousness and only for his own descendants. 

From him to Isaac from Issac to Jacob and from Jacob to all his household. The Israelites. 

Jacob was the start of something new God did not exclude anyone from his family, his children. 

God included all his children that's why he change his name because he started something new.

The same thing happened with Abraham. God change his name when he started something new. 

He set apart Abraham from the rest of the world by reckoning his faith to his promises as righteousness. 

And made the Covenant of Circumcision with him that he will only the God of his descendants after him and not the rest of the world. 

God with Abraham devided the world in two.

On earth while the lived he set them apart from the rest of the world, and in death he also set them apart from the rest of the world and as on earth God gave them their own place to live the land of Canaan, the same thing happened to them when they died God gave them their own place separated from the dead of the rest of the world. 

In Jesus Christ example is call the Bossom of Abraham or the Paradise of Abraham. 

That was a separated place from from Hades where the dead of the rest of the world were gathered and where Hades the God of the dead ruled.

 But in the Bossom of Abraham the God of the dead Hades was off limit he was not allowed to enter their place.

Because after Abraham died the Lord God continue to be his God . And not only to Abraham  but also to his descendants after him in Isaac, Jacob and all the house of Jacob known as the Israelites. 

David was gathered to Abraham like anyone else because he was from Judah from the line of Jacob.

There is something else that I want to tell you that Abraham and his descendants they were the First Fruits together with anyone else in the place of the dead who believed in the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached by Jesus Christ himself. 

Abraham had to welcome Jesus as the Christ as anyone else with him included John the Baptist who was going before the Lord to declared his coming and could identify him. 

They had to believe in Jesus Christ to be in his righteousness and in his Life.

To be born from above. To be in Jesus Christ. 

Before he died on the Cross Jesus Christ said "the dead will hear my voice and will raised first. 

Jesus Christ was the Harvester in the place of the dead and every one who believed in him were raised with him and they went to Heaven together with Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ presented them to God as the First Fruits of his Harvest. 

PS

The thief on the Cross was among the First Fruits.

Because Jesus Christ forgave his sins and only to him not to the other thief. And the thief as a righteous descendant from Abraham an Israelite at his death he was gathered in the Bossom of Abraham or the Paradise of Abraham while they were waiting for Jesus Christ to take them to His place in Heaven.

God had reveal this day of Jesus Christ to Abraham before he died and he was waiting for him to take them to his place in Heaven.

That's why Jesus Christ said: that Abraham has seen my day and rejoice. 

Abraham died with this hope. 

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

I was born with the Life of God. In Jesus Christ. 

I was not born in death. That cannot be no matter how one might role the dice.

My parents were in the Life.

Just think is it possible to bring forth a child in death.

That's what they said: one more for Jesus Christ. 

That's how they prayed while I was still growing in the womb.

They asked Jesus to bless me and the minister prayed in the same way. 

And when I was born they dedicate me to Jesus Christ as one of his own and believed Jesus will look after me. 

I was never in death, I was born in the Life of God in Jesus Christ. 

I do not need to be resurrected like what, pretending to be in death that I am an unbeliever and I need to repent for refusing to believe in Jesus Christ and turned away from unbelief and believe so I can be resurrected. From death unto Life. 

I was conceived in the Life of God, and I was born in the Life of God and I will die with the Life of God. 

 I follow in my parents faith in Jesus Christ from birth. 

My parents were believers in Jesus Christ and hope that no one expecting me to believe in something else besides to what my parents believe. 

So I grew up a believer and never looked into another faith. Never renounce the faith of Jesus Christ. 

I remained in the faith of Jesus Christ. 

Does the bible say that my mother carried a fetus in death? And the child she hold at birth was a child in death.

How repulsive if that was so.

 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

11 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Sounds wonderful. It also sounds like something Saul of Tarsus or Caiaphas might say. Do not suppose that we can say to ourselves, "We have a Christian for our father"; for God is able to raise up children to of Christians from rocks (Mt. 3:9). Salvation is not by genetic inheritance, nor is it caused by upbringing. If God has seen fit to save you then it was by His grace and if your parents were Christians then that is what they taught you: saved by grace through faith and not of yourself (or their parenting or chromosomal contribution). 

Romans 5:12, 17
"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned.............. For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ."

Death has come to all. 

It does NOT say, "...death spread to all men except those who were the biological progeny of Christians." 

Psalm 51:5
"Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me."

Job 15:14
"What is man, that he should be pure, Or he who is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?"

John 1:12-13
"But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in his name,  who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."

 

I see that you believe that death  came to all men because of Adam's disobedience.

As a result of Adam being in death when Kain was conceived or Abel or Sheth that all their children and the children after their children were born in death or that they inherit death from their father. 

Death it was their Inheritance and they could not do anything about it..

They were born in death because they came from a dead seed. 

Before they grow up and are accoundable for their actions they were in death.

If someone sins that will affect his righteousness. 

A word of caution. Are we describing how the world was from Adam to Abraham. 

And are we describing what people. 

People who believe in God before Abraham and his Covenant of Circumcision with God? 

[DeighAnn]

5 hours ago, Josheb said:

Those of you who have read the last three or four pages can see the poster either cannot or will not explain even one single simple matter, how it is Ecc. 12:7 should be read to be about the humans spirit and Not God's own Spirit returning to Himself in light of the scriptures I posted clearly showing that's what God's Spirit does. Dennis, I hope you're still around because this post should be noted only for what NOT to believe.

The poster did, it just doesn't seem to register. 

JUST BECAUSE A person DOESNT go back and show the 'work book/school' way doesn't mean they ignorant, they just don't agree.  AND since I would think this would fall under RUACH 101, I don't understand your response at all  WELL, I actually do think I might have an idea.  

Of the 389 times it occurs 237 of those passages it is rendered spirit and breath in Job and Prov.  In the remaining 152 there are 22 different ways and It is THE CONTEXT/usage that tells us how.  

SINCE  ECC 12 is written about the man upon the earth who walks under the sun so earthy things and our context is easy to figure out.  

Now you may not agree with any of this but now you know how I came to believe it myself.  SO I  DISAGREE with THE claim as to it  being 'GODS SPIRIT' returning to Him as Gods spirit wasn't being discussed but MANS DEATH AND BURIAL WERE. IN MY HUMBLE opinion. 

I have EXPLAINED THE MATTER, MANY TIMES IN MANY WAYS.  Just not one way which fits into the Christ returned 2000 years ago and we are living under His rule with a rod of iron in the millennium that has lasted almost double that time now all because it was written IN THAT TIME and the word 'near' was uttered.  Or something like that.  

Any way, hopefully and prayerfully  all those who have been following will see the TRUTH of what has been shown.  I honestly pray that ONLY GODS TRUTH will be seen and I personally don't care if it came from you or from me because that part doesn't matter in the least little bit.    Good night   D  






 

Edited July 26, 2021 by DeighAnn
it it

[suzan344]

On 7/20/2021 at 3:30 PM, Resurrection Priest said:

OK.  But I'm asking about bodies for humans.  Why do humans who are living in the heavenly/spiritual realm - since they died, need to be resurrected?  Do they need to be resurrected to receive a body?  Do they need a body to function in the physical world?

It is a valid argument.  The Bible does not exactly state why.  First off, when a human dies the Bible says they sleep until final judgement.  What part sleeps?  My answer would be the soul sleeps until final judgement.

So who is resurrected from the dead in Rev. 20:4?  That states only the martyrs (144,000) are resurrected.

Since only the soul sleeps and awaits judgement, my analysis states that their asleep soul reawakens when it is called up by the sound of God's command.  So only souls are resurrected and therefore get new bodies as their old ones are now dust.

Many or most feel their old bodies (of the 144,000) and memories come alive.

I don't feel this is the case.

Next question is about Heaven.  Is there one?  I don't see souls as going to Heaven, ever.  I see in the old Testament, pre-soul time (as I see it, not necessary others) or period, that people went to Paradise, in Heaven.  What went to Paradise?  Answer, their own spirit went there.  Jews still feel this way.

What is Paradise and what does that have to do with us?  That is a mystery.

Edited July 26, 2021 by suzan344

[Justin Adams]

12 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

I'm truly sorry.  How did I misquote you.  I highlighted the blue that said it was you.  

Sometimes one can accidentally quote someone that answers another post. The original post was not mine. No problem, I want the readers to be very clear.

Quote below:

"" On 7/24/2021 at 4:39 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

Did Jesus sleep in the dust? 

Did his body show decay? 

Worthy to note:

Does the scripture say "First fruit" or "First fruits"? 

Does that matter to you or to the ones who does not want to say what the scripture say "the first fruits", which is many and not one. 

"First fruits" then does not apply to Jesus who is one. ""

[Dennis1209]

6 hours ago, suzan344 said:

It is a valid argument.  The Bible does not exactly state why.  First off, when a human dies the Bible says they sleep until final judgement.  What part sleeps?  My answer would be the soul sleeps until final judgement.

So who is resurrected from the dead in Rev. 20:4?  That states only the martyrs (144,000) are resurrected.

Since only the soul sleeps and awaits judgement, my analysis states that their asleep soul reawakens when it is called up by the sound of God's command.  So only souls are resurrected and therefore get new bodies as their old ones are now dust.

Many or most feel their old bodies (of the 144,000) and memories come alive.

I don't feel this is the case.

Next question is about Heaven.  Is there one?  I don't see souls as going to Heaven, ever.  I see in the old Testament, pre-soul time (as I see it, not necessary others) or period, that people went to Paradise, in Heaven.  What went to Paradise?  Answer, their own spirit went there.  Jews still feel this way.

What is Paradise and what does that have to do with us?  That is a mystery.

Good morning suzan344,

Not to belabor or argue the point, but what and where do you understand that; the soul sleeps? I will have to disagree.

The 'body' in most cases when it dies, has the appearance of someone sleeping. Thus, the identification and wording. We are a triune being, consisting of body, soul, and spirit.

Our soul consists of who we are; our likes and dislikes, our unique personalities and qualities, our wants and desires, our past and present actions, etc. Remember the story of the "rich man" and Lazarus? That's not a parable, as parables never use proper names and places. 

Given my definition and thought of what our souls are, which I believe maybe somewhat accurate. What part of the triune being of the "rich man", or even Lazarus, was in the torment side / paradise side [Abraham's bosom]; the body; soul; or spirit?

I personally read the Bible to be clear on the subject; here's but a single example for brevity:

2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

[Resurrection Priest]

13 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Abraham was the Patriarch of Righteousness and only for his own descendants. 

From him to Isaac from Issac to Jacob and from Jacob to all his household. The Israelites. 

Jacob was the start of something new God did not exclude anyone from his family, his children. 

God included all his children that's why he change his name because he started something new.

The same thing happened with Abraham. God change his name when he started something new. 

He set apart Abraham from the rest of the world by reckoning his faith to his promises as righteousness. 

And made the Covenant of Circumcision with him that he will only the God of his descendants after him and not the rest of the world. 

God with Abraham devided the world in two.

On earth while the lived he set them apart from the rest of the world, and in death he also set them apart from the rest of the world and as on earth God gave them their own place to live the land of Canaan, the same thing happened to them when they died God gave them their own place separated from the dead of the rest of the world. 

In Jesus Christ example is call the Bossom of Abraham or the Paradise of Abraham. 

That was a separated place from from Hades where the dead of the rest of the world were gathered and where Hades the God of the dead ruled.

 But in the Bossom of Abraham the God of the dead Hades was off limit he was not allowed to enter their place.

Because after Abraham died the Lord God continue to be his God . And not only to Abraham  but also to his descendants after him in Isaac, Jacob and all the house of Jacob known as the Israelites. 

David was gathered to Abraham like anyone else because he was from Judah from the line of Jacob.

There is something else that I want to tell you that Abraham and his descendants they were the First Fruits together with anyone else in the place of the dead who believed in the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached by Jesus Christ himself. 

Abraham had to welcome Jesus as the Christ as anyone else with him included John the Baptist who was going before the Lord to declared his coming and could identify him. 

They had to believe in Jesus Christ to be in his righteousness and in his Life.

To be born from above. To be in Jesus Christ. 

Before he died on the Cross Jesus Christ said "the dead will hear my voice and will raised first. 

Jesus Christ was the Harvester in the place of the dead and every one who believed in him were raised with him and they went to Heaven together with Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ presented them to God as the First Fruits of his Harvest. 

PS

The thief on the Cross was among the First Fruits.

Because Jesus Christ forgave his sins and only to him not to the other thief. And the thief as a righteous descendant from Abraham an Israelite at his death he was gathered in the Bossom of Abraham or the Paradise of Abraham while they were waiting for Jesus Christ to take them to His place in Heaven.

God had reveal this day of Jesus Christ to Abraham before he died and he was waiting for him to take them to his place in Heaven.

That's why Jesus Christ said: that Abraham has seen my day and rejoice. 

Abraham died with this hope. 

 

Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. (KJV)

Believing non-Hebrews are "grafted in" to the Olive Tree (Israel -Jer. 11:16) with the holy Root (the Son of God). 

Unbelievers are "broken off" from that Tree, regardless of their Hebrew DNA.  

I do NOT share your view that the righteous go consciously to a different place (the bosom of Abraham) during the time between death and resurrection.  

Those in Christ are written in the Book of Life.  

Thank you for sharing your view.

[Resurrection Priest]

11 hours ago, Josheb said:

Time is irrelevant.

As to the chasm separating the two worlds.... Moses and Elijah did not have any trouble whatsoever talking to Jesus. 

Elijah was translated without seeing death.  Moses died and was then resurrected. (Else why the argument over the corpse.)  Paul says "death reigned from Adam to Moses."  Moses was the first person resurrected.  

Anyway. . . Elijah and Moses were NOT DEAD when they talked with Christ on the Mount, and 3 disciples witnessed that.  It was against God's Law to converse with "the dead."  Christ could not violate Torah.  That was sin.