Should I get the Covid vaccine?

[Tammy Roesch]

On 8/12/2021 at 12:55 PM, ~Shalhevet~ said:

My husband and I have been going back and forth over this for months now and we can't come to a decision.  I've been praying for clarity, and am hoping to find some here.  The added pressure from friends, family and coworkers have made the decision even more difficult for us.   We've thought about giving in to what everyone else wants, getting the vaccine, and just not having to think about it anymore.  But is that right?  I believe we are making the right decision not getting vaccinated, but I don't want to be deceived because I know God heals and can prevent illness through modern medicine.  I've been reading a lot online but I don't know who to trust or what to believe anymore.   Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  I just want some honesty from some fellow Christians. 

I'm afraid that there is as much division on this subject amongst Christians and here on this site as anywhere else you might go.

I agree with a poster a couple pages back who said to not compromise your conscience.  Personally, I will NEVER take this vaccine...they will literally have to hog tie me, first.

All my girls, 3 daughters/1 daughter in law are all in the medical field....and all tell me the same thing...this whole thing is over blown....  And since when do we offer lotteries to get people to take a vaccine?  or offer them a college scholarship to get them to take a vaccine?  Many issues are ALREADY showing up....give it a couple years and there will be MANY MORE ISSUES.  I believe it's all about POPULATION CONTROL.  

[johnthebaptist]

4 hours ago, David1701 said:

Yet...

Have you read any of the concerns of experts?  If not, then upon what do you base your, "...50 years from now...", and, "...it's unlikely."?  Are these just random thoughts, plucked from your own mind?

As I said previously, glib answers help no-one.  Investigate...

If you're afraid of the vaccine, don't take it. I have no problem with that.

[David1701]

1 hour ago, one.opinion said:

@~Shalhevet~, I appreciate the genuine concern about wanting to do the right thing. Before putting my $0.02 in, I must first acknowledge that I am a Biology Professor that earned a PhD in a molecular virology lab. I am not an active research Virologist, Immunologist, or Epidemiologist, so although I have a background that has taught me about a lot of these things, I am by no means an expert.

Having said that, I believe people undecided about a vaccine should have as many accurate facts as possible.

1. The vaccines available in the US were rigorously tested, including phase 3 trials. 

Moderna - https://www.modernatx.com/covid19vaccine-eua/providers/clinical-trial-data

Pfizer - https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine#:~:text=(NYSE%3A PFE) and BioNTech,the study's primary efficacy endpoints.&text=The observed efficacy in adults,of age was over 94%.

Johnson and Johnson - https://www.jnj.com/johnson-johnson-single-shot-covid-19-vaccine-phase-3-data-published-in-new-england-journal-of-medicine

Yes, the vaccines were developed and approved at record pace, but there were no shortcuts in the trial process. Huge amounts of red tape were removed and huge numbers of volunteers enrolled in the safety trials. Typically, researchers spend a LOT of time recruiting and enrolling volunteers until sufficient numbers have been collected, but that was not an issue with these trials.

Hundreds of millions of people have received these vaccines over the last 8-9 months, and there is virtually no chance of unexpected adverse conditions popping up years in the future that have not already been observed.

2. There is a low risk of serious adverse reactions to the COVID vaccines. Anaphylaxis is the most common, so health care personnel monitor vaccine recipients for 20-30 minutes after injection, just in case a reaction occurs. Other adverse reactions have occurred, at a rate of roughly 10 per 1,000,000 vaccinations.

3. The mRNA vaccines have had fewer adverse reactions, and protect from serious illness, better than the Johnson and Johnson vaccine.

4. The mRNA vaccines often cause fatigue, headache, muscle soreness, and possibly fever for a day or two after injection, but symptoms clear completely within those 24-48 hours for virtually all recipients.

5. The mRNA technology is not new, and other mRNA vaccines have actually been developed, but interest in these prior to the pandemic was just not abundant. So this is not a completely new technology, there is a working history going back about a decade.

6. The mRNA vaccines deliver mRNA in lipid nanoparticles to cells that are able to "read" the mRNA and produce the encoded spike protein. The spike protein then elicits an immune response in the recipient that takes about 2 weeks to fully develop. The mRNA itself is broken down within just a few days. The mRNA will not alter the DNA of the recipient.

7. At this point in time, over 95% of COVID hospitalizations and deaths are among the unvaccinated. While vaccinated individuals may have mild or asymptomatic infections, the vaccines were developed to prevent serious illness - not to prevent any type of infection from occurring.

https://www.cnet.com/health/99-of-covid-deaths-are-now-of-unvaccinated-people-experts-say/

8. While earlier in the pandemic, most seriously ill individuals were older, most of the current COVID-related hospitalizations are among the 18-49 demographic.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/young-people-make-up-biggest-group-of-newly-hospitalized-covid-19-patients

I must admit I am very much in favor of COVID vaccines, but I have tried to give you a balanced overview of pros and cons of vaccination.

I should also state that ultimately, this should be your (and your husband's) decision. I do not believe vaccinations should be mandatory, in general, but I do support the rights of certain companies (airlines, hospitals, and others) to require either vaccination or a reasonable alternative (like daily testing) of their employees.

If you have questions, I'll be happy to answer them or search for those answers.

 

I don't have time for a proper reply just now; but, I will just say that anyone trusting Pfizer and Moderna's phase 3 trials, should at least read this:

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-we-need-more-details-and-the-raw-data/

This kind of information is often buried low the down a search engine's results, but it's precisely this kind of thing that brings balance to the official line, which is very fishy.

Edited August 14, 2021 by David1701

[David1701]

1 minute ago, johnthebaptist said:

If you're afraid of the vaccine, don't take it. I have no problem with that.

<sigh>

Why do you keep avoiding the points I make? 

Why do you keep making incorrect assumptions?

No-one should listen to the kinds of posts you have been making, in this thread.

[johnthebaptist]

13 minutes ago, David1701 said:

<sigh>

Why do you keep avoiding the points I make? 

Why do you keep making incorrect assumptions?

No-one should listen to the kinds of posts you have been making, in this thread.

When having a discussion, it is wise to treat the others with respect.

[one.opinion]

31 minutes ago, David1701 said:

I don't have time for a proper reply just now; but, I will just say that anyone trusting Pfizer and Moderna's phase 3 trials, should at least read this:

We have real life evidence from the hundreds of millions of vaccinated individuals over the last 8-9 months. The conclusions from the clinical trials are supported by what we see “in the real world.” The vaccines are very effective and very safe. The opinion piece is hardly relevant when we see the proof in real outcomes.

[Marathoner]

3 hours ago, one.opinion said:

We have real life evidence from the hundreds of millions of vaccinated individuals over the last 8-9 months. The conclusions from the clinical trials are supported by what we see “in the real world.” The vaccines are very effective and very safe. The opinion piece is hardly relevant when we see the proof in real outcomes.

Indeed. I have been prayed for because I received the vaccine, warned that I was close to death, and told that I ought to be experiencing certain side effects by now. Alas, I'm doing just fine.  

Hence my admittedly humorous reports that I have yet to transmogrify into a rutabaga. What a let-down, brother. I was watching for roots and leaves in vain! 

I'm not so enamored of this flesh that I live in constant fear of this or that befalling me. I've been on the verge of the grave before and I have nothing to fear. No one in Jesus Christ has reason to fear a single thing.  

 

[Kelly2363]

6 hours ago, David1701 said:

<sigh>

Why do you keep avoiding the points I make? 

Why do you keep making incorrect assumptions?

No-one should listen to the kinds of posts you have been making, in this thread.

 

Well you got your warning David. You can be called fearful - but you cannot sigh.

Apparently its not wise! 

[Deborah_]

On 8/12/2021 at 5:55 PM, ~Shalhevet~ said:

My husband and I have been going back and forth over this for months now and we can't come to a decision.  I've been praying for clarity, and am hoping to find some here.  The added pressure from friends, family and coworkers have made the decision even more difficult for us.   We've thought about giving in to what everyone else wants, getting the vaccine, and just not having to think about it anymore.  But is that right?  I believe we are making the right decision not getting vaccinated, but I don't want to be deceived because I know God heals and can prevent illness through modern medicine.  I've been reading a lot online but I don't know who to trust or what to believe anymore.   Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  I just want some honesty from some fellow Christians. 

My advice would be that, unless you have some personal medical contra-indication, you SHOULD have the vaccine. 

That's not "giving in to what everyone else wants". It's common sense.

Not to have the vaccine would be "giving in" - giving in to fear induced by reading too many online articles. It's much too easy to find the handful of "immunology experts" giving frantic warnings about this or that complication, which gives an entirely false impression. In fact, the vast majority of doctors and immunologists in the world think the vaccine is a good thing - don't their opinions count for anything?

I'm a doctor myself. I've had the vaccine, as has virtually everyone else I know. We're all alive and well, months later. The vaccine is not totally without risk (no vaccine or medicine is), but the risks are MUCH LESS than the risks of catching the virus itself - and yes, I also know people who have died or have long-term ill-effects from the virus.

[Kelly2363]

22 minutes ago, Deborah_ said:

My advice would be that, unless you have some personal medical contra-indication, you SHOULD have the vaccine. 

That's not "giving in to what everyone else wants". It's common sense.

Not to have the vaccine would be "giving in" - giving in to fear induced by reading too many online articles. It's much too easy to find the handful of "immunology experts" giving frantic warnings about this or that complication, which gives an entirely false impression. In fact, the vast majority of doctors and immunologists in the world think the vaccine is a good thing - don't their opinions count for anything?

I'm a doctor myself. I've had the vaccine, as has virtually everyone else I know. We're all alive and well, months later. The vaccine is not totally without risk (no vaccine or medicine is), but the risks are MUCH LESS than the risks of catching the virus itself - and yes, I also know people who have died or have long-term ill-effects from the virus.

 

Albeit unrelated to the specificity of the Covid vaccines - the BMJ have posted an article laying out reasons why presumptions about the validity of medical research being valid as a default position should be revised. 

Time to assume that health research is fraudulent until proven otherwise?

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/07/05/time-to-assume-that-health-research-is-fraudulent-until-proved-otherwise/

When I am told or else read that the vast majority of doctors and immunologists in the world believe that the vaccine is a good thing - I do wonder what a good thing is.