Last Day Resurrection? How does that work?

[Retrobyter]

23 hours ago, Uriah said:

Hi Retro,

No, you only re-stated some things which don't make the case.

For example; when we look at Rev. 6:14- And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. You deny its meaning with no proof, saying, "the whole sky is not made new until Revelation 21:1."

Let's stick to what it actually says-"the heaven departed", not partially or anything of the sort. 

And it says, "every mountain and island were moved out of their places". These are massive geologic alterations on a planet wide scale! Whereas you say nothing about that, it is nothing less than the end of great tribulation and the new heaven and new Earth are now seen at the beginning of the 1,000 yr. Kingdom. 

Shalom, Uriah.

Okay, let's look at the context of Revelation 6, in the 6th Seal and :

Revelation 6:12-17 (KJV)

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

***
What you need to understand about these verses is that John was talking about a meteorite shower of herald meteorites that will fall through a given PATH across the earth! It's like the herald meteorites that fall in the movies Armageddon or Deep Impact. The word "heaven" in verses 13 and 14 are still the word "ouranos," referring to our earth's atmosphere. The word translated "departed" is the Greek word apechooristhee and it means "TO SEPARATE" or "TO PART ASUNDER." It doesn't mean "to be destroyed" or to "go away permanently!" Every mountain and every island (undersea mountain) WITHIN THE PATH were "moved out of their locations!" This is not a global event, as you are thinking, although it WILL affect all the earth in the long run.
***

1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 Saying,

"Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda (Yhudah) were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Reuben (ReeuwVen) were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. 
6 Of the tribe of Aser (Asher) were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Nepthalim (Naftaliym) were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Manasses (Manesheh) were sealed twelve thousand. 
7 Of the tribe of Simeon (Shim`own)were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Levi (Leviy) were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Issachar (Yissachar) were sealed twelve thousand. 
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon (ZeVuluwn) were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Joseph (Yoceef) were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Benjamin (Bin-Yamiyn) were sealed twelve thousand.

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10And cried with a loud voice, saying,

"Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb!"

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying,

"Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen."

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me,

"What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?"

14 And I said unto him,

"Sir, thou knowest."

And he said to me,

"These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."

1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. 5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

***
This might actually be more meteorites being thrown into the ground, or they may be representative of what is to follow.
***

6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

***
Again, these are "hailstones" that are icy rocks that not only catch fire from the friction, but they are mixed with blood when they strike living creatures. Their fires burn up a third of the trees, and all green grass in the area! And, once again, this is talking about the area in which these objects strike the earth, not the whole globe!
***

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; 9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

***
This speaks of a HUGE, MOUNTAIN-SIZED meteorite, burning with fire, being thrown into the sea, destroying a third of all the living things in or on the water, so that a "third of the sea became blood."
***

10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood (Greek: Apsinthos from which we get our word "absinthe"): and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

***
This siren announces a meteorite that sputters as it burns. It's gases affect a third of the fresh waters. The name given to this meteorite is "Absinthe," and it POISONS a third of all fresh water sources. Many people died from the waters because they were POISONED!
***

12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

***
This air-raid siren warns about the smoke and debris from the meteorites that have fallen and how a third of the day and of the night are darkened by that smoke and debris.
***

13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven (through mid-sky), saying with a loud voice,

"Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!"

***
Here, we are warned of THREE events yet to come that will be cries of grief, "Ooaahee!" [Interestingly, we might also hear these cries of grief as the English word "WHY?!"]
***

1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven (from the sky) unto the earth: and to him (it) was given the key (coordinates) of the bottomless pit. 2 And he (it) opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. 

***
So, now we have another meteorite that has the key coordinates to the bottomless pit - the pit with no sounded bottom.
***

3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. 5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. 6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

***
These are LITERAL locusts of a species not known to our present earth. I believe they were buried from the earth before the Flood in the aftermath of the Flood, locked away in suspended animation in this "bottomless pit." With scorpion tails, they strike men with a nerve-toxin that immobilizes them. They will be conscious, but they will not be able to communicate what they are feeling, nor will they have the motor skills to kill themselves. And so, for FIVE LONG MONTHS, they will suffer!
***

7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. 8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth (mandibles) were as the teeth of lions. 9 And they had breastplates (thoraxes), as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. 10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months. 11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

 

***
As in the movie Reign of Fire, these creatures will have a king over them, suggesting that the majority of them will be female to the one male of the species. This king's name is "Apolluon" in Greek or "Abaddown" in Hebrew, both of which means "destruction" (NOT "destroyer")! This suggests that, when the king dies, the species dies.

12 "One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter."

13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, 14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet,

"Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates."

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. 16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. 17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. 18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. 19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

20  And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: 21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

***
This second "Woe" or "Ooahee," is not directly caused by the meteorite shower, although the drying up of the Euphrates River may have been caused by debris diverting the waters of the river.

My point to all of these chapters is this: The earth is a very, VERY BIG place to insignificant creatures as we are. While this meteorite shower will be devastating, it does NOT do as much damage as the final Global Fire will cause.

23 hours ago, Uriah said:

Let's compare these then... Rev. 20:11- And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

We have the heaven and Earth fled away here AND in Rev 6. Both references contain someone sitting on a throne at the same time the things happen!

No, there's just no comparison between the two, separate events. In the meteorite shower, there is a PATH, a SWATH, a STRIP of destruction that will occur over the face of the earth, or "the Land."

In Revelation 20, we have a restatement of 2 Peter 3 (or vice versa):

Here are the two, one after the other. (I wish I could show them side-by-side.) I will try to show points of comparison by letters in parentheses.

Revelation 20:7-15; 21:1-5

7 And WHEN THE THOUSAND YEARS ARE EXPIRED, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and (a) fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw (b) a great white throne, and him that sat on it, (f) from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away (raced by); and there was found no place for them. 12 And (b) I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and (b) they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 (c) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

1 (d) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven (out of the sky), prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven (out of the throne) saying,

"(e) Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

2 Peter 3:1-13 (KJV)

1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying,

"Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation!"

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, (a) RESERVED UNTO FIRE AGAINST (b) THE DAY OF JUDGMENT (the Great White Throne Judgment) AND (c) PERDITION (SENTENCING) OF UNGODLY MEN.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But (f) the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that (f) all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto (f) the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 

13 Nevertheless (d) we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, (e) wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

23 hours ago, Uriah said:

This is powerful proof of the fact that the new heaven and Earth are NOT AFTER the 1,000 yrs. This also proves that the correct reading of Rev. to must be taken as verses 7- 10 being parenthetical. 

Au contraire, mon frere! (To the contrary, my brother!) Verse 7 is quite clear that these verses occur AFTER the Millennium. See, the "Millennium" is not about how long Christ reigns but is rather how long haSatan is under lock and key within the bottomless pit! His release signals the beginning of the deception of the nations again, and he and his armies attack the camp of God's army and the Holy City. This leads to their destruction in Fire that falls from the sky, and then begins the GWTJ, all at the end of the Millennium.

The Millennium is a DIFFERENT TIME PERIOD from that of the New Earth and the New Sky.

23 hours ago, Uriah said:

In verses 12 & 13 people are before the throne being judged according to their works. People are cast into the fire.

And in Matt 25 it says there is a judgment in front of a throne-"When the Son of man shall come..." Here also, people are judged by their works and people are cast into the fire!

No, actually, Matthew 25 is talking about a judgment of nations, not individuals. Second, they are NOT "cast into the fire" in Matthew 25.

A better description Yeshua` used would be the parable of the tares among the wheat in Matthew 13:

Matthew 13:24-30; 36-43 (KJV)

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,

"The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him,

"'Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?'

28 "He said unto them,

"'An enemy hath done this.'

"The servants said unto him,

"'Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?'

29 "But he said,

"'Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."'"
...

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying,

"Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field."

37 He answered and said unto them,

"He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 
38 The field is the world;
the good seed are the children of the kingdom;
but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil;
the harvest is the end of the world (the end of the age);
and the reapers are the angels. 

40 "As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

Here, Yeshua` gave us a LONG list of elements used in this parable. All we have to do is take the parable and substitute all the elements in the parable with what they represent:

"The kingdom of heaven is likened unto the Son of man which sowed children of the kingdom in his world: 25 But while men slept, the devil came and sowed the children of the wicked one among the children of the kingdom, and went his way. 26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the children of the wicked one also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him,

"'Sir, didst not thou sow children of the kingdom in thy world? from whence then hath it children of the wicked one?'

28 "He said unto them,

"'The devil hath done this.'

"The servants said unto him,

"'Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?'

29 "But he said,

"'Nay; lest while ye gather up the children of the wicked one, ye root up also the children of the kingdom with them. 30 Let both grow together until the end of the age: and in the time of the end of the age I will say to the angels, "Gather ye together first the children of the wicked one, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the children of the kingdom into my barn."'"

Then, Yeshua` added the explanation of verses 40-43:

40 "As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather OUT OF HIS KINGDOM all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun IN THE KINGDOM OF THEIR FATHER. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

Notice that "HIS Kingdom" began first over His own children of the Kingdom and the children of the wicked one. This is the Millennium when He begins His reign and others reign with Him (Rev. 20:1-6).

However, at the END of the Millennium, He will send His messengers, His "angels," to gather OUT OF HIS Kingdom all things that offend, and they throw THESE offenders into the Lake of Fire! Then, with His Kingdom purged of these offenders, He turns over His Kingdom to the Father (1 Cor. 15:28), and "the righteous shall shine forth as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father." And, THIS Kingdom is found in Revelation 21 and 22.

23 hours ago, Uriah said:

On the same subject Jesus spoke of people told to "enter in" into the joy of thy Lord". And what do we see after Rev 20? A description of where people will enter in- the "place prepared'..."in my Father's house". 

I think your scenario forces people to enter AFTER 1,000 yrs, must they wait that long for God to, " wipe away all tears from their eyes"? I don't believe so.  

Yes, they must wait that long. You see, the Millennium - the First 1,000 years of the Messiah's Kingdom - are NOT characterized by peace and joy; they are characterized by CONFLICT and SUBDUING His enemies!

Look at 1 Corinthians 15:20-28:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order:
(0) Christ the firstfruits;
(1) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 
24 (2) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; WHEN HE SHALL HAVE PUT DOWN ALL RULE AND ALL AUTHORITY AND POWER. 

25 For HE MUST REIGN, TILL HE HATH PUT ALL ENEMIES UNDER HIS FEET. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. (But when he saith, "all things are put under him," it is manifest [revealed; obvious] that he [God] is excepted, which did put all things under him.) 28 And WHEN ALL THINGS SHALL BE SUBDUED UNTO HIM, THEN SHALL THE SON ALSO HIMSELF BE SUBJECT UNTO HIM THAT PUT ALL THINGS UNDER HIM, THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL.

The title on His thigh is "King of Kings and Lord of Lords," and that is a phrase that was used of others, like Nebuchadnezzar and Artaxerxes, to mean a "WORLD EMPEROR!" Yeshua` has to GROW His Kingdom, like a mustard tree out of a mustard seed, or a mountain out of a stone, and that will TAKE TIME! When He has subdued ALL of His enemies, then His Kingdom will be ready for His Father.

 

[Uriah]

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Okay, let's look at the context

Indeed! 

1.  separate, sever

2. to part asunder

3. to separate one's self, depart from

The sky has departed. But it says even more. "Like a scroll when it is rolled together..." 

Isaiah 34:- 2 & 4- For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.

And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree...

This is the same event as we see in Rev.6. A scroll rolling up is easy to understand, it is nothing like a "path". The the sky is rolled away to reveal the new heavens made the Rev.8 asteroid impact ejecting material into space that creates the large hailstones and leaves a fine layer sphere around the planet making the sky permanently reddish. 

Psalm 102:25 & 26- Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:

"like a garment"- easily understood, as seen when you cross your arms and  pull your T shirt from the waist up and over your head.

"shall be changed"- 

to pass on or away, pass through, pass by, go through, grow up, change, to go on from

to pass on quickly

to pass away (vanish)

to come on anew, sprout again 

to pass through

to overstep, transgress

 to cause to pass, change

to change, substitute, alter, change for better, renew

to show newness 

Also I don't know how you say the Rev 6 event is not a planet-wide event where it says every mountain and island fled away. This is a direct contradiction of what the scripture says

9 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

This is not a global event

"every"- 

individually

each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything

collectively

some of all types

 

[Uriah]

On 9/22/2021 at 7:24 AM, DeighAnn said:

TELL ME, were the Prophets FLESH AND BLOOD MEN?  ARE our BRETHREN flesh and blood men?  DOES this ANGEL IN HEAVEN SPEAKING WITH JOHN CLAIM TO BE BRETHREN TO THOSE WHO WERE/are FLESH AND BLOOD? 

Hi DeighAnn,

Sorry I missed this one (I think). This is a mis-read. It happens in various verses because we read obsolete English (KJV) that was translated into obsolete Greek. I usually prefer the KJV but it never hurts to compare to other versions. Here is the NLT: 

But he said, “No, don’t worship me. I am a servant of God, just like you and your brothers the prophets, as well as all who obey what is written in this book. Worship only God!” 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Uriah
spelling

[DeighAnn]

On 9/22/2021 at 7:14 PM, Retrobyter said:

Here again, one doesn't know what happened to Eeliyaahuw ("Elijah") after Elishaa` ("Elisha") was separated from him. The "chariot (millstone) of fire and the horses (swallows; swifts) of fire" were merely there to separate the two. Eeliyaahuw did NOT get in the "chariot of fire!" Instead, Eeliyaahuw went up in a whirlwind (Hebrew: bac`aaraah = "in-a-storm; in-a-tornado") into the sky (Hebrew: hashaamaayim = "of the skies." We are NOT TOLD what happened to him from there!

Seriously,  could you even imagine if it took ALL THAT to be able to read the words of GOD?  Who could ever be saved?  And OF COURSE with the dissection of HEAVEN to mean only 'skies' so TRUTH can not be found.  But when heaven remains the heaven we know it all makes perfect sense.  

GODs TRUTH is found in THE SPIRIT of the words.  NOT THE DEFINITIONS OF THEM.  NOT THE GRAMMAR.  

ALL the Pharisees and Sadducees KNEW THE WORDS yet the missed ALL THE TRUTHS.  THEY COULDN'T EVEN SEE JESUS WALKING AMONGST THEM as He was in the midst of fulfilling prophesy.  THEY KNEW the words.  BUT that is all they knew.  They had no spirit to lead them to the truths that were happening right then.  

That is why WE RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT.  So that we can be LED BY THE SPIRIT and not by the LETTER.  

I don't know how many times you want to do this with me but YOU KEEP DOING AS WE ARE TOLD NOT TO DO,  LIKE IT IS A GOOD THING.  

SURE when we get to a place where we need to go a little deeper to find the truth all those things you do are helpful but if that is all there is then there is a problem, IMHO anyhow.  

Do you think GOD wrote in some way in which CHILDREN couldn't understand?  Is there no common sense applied to anything?  

Elijah.  Lets just take this one example.  
 
2Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

2Kings 2:2 And Elijah said unto Elisha, Tarry here, I pray thee; for the LORD hath sent me to Bethel. And Elisha said unto him, As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. So they went down to Bethel.

2Kings 2:3 And the sons of the prophets that were at Bethel came forth to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he said, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace.

2Kings 2:4 And Elijah said unto him, Elisha, tarry here, I pray thee; for the LORD hath sent me to Jericho. And he said, As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. So they came to Jericho.

2Kings 2:5 And the sons of the prophets that were at Jericho came to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he answered, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace.

2Kings 2:6 And Elijah said unto him, Tarry, I pray thee, here; for the LORD hath sent me to Jordan. And he said, As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. And they two went on.

2Kings 2:7 And fifty men of the sons of the prophets went, and stood to view afar off: and they two stood by Jordan.

2Kings 2:8 And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground.

2Kings 2:9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.

2Kings 2:10 And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.

2Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Who sees' it?   

D


 

[DeighAnn]

On 9/22/2021 at 7:27 PM, Uriah said:

These things have not happened yet and certainly not to Moses and Elijah. Moses' body is still in the grave. Elijah hasn't died. 

It is those who are in the grave that will hear the voice of Jesus and come out. So they are NOT in heaven now. their spirits are being, "passed from death unto life" according to Jesus.

It WAS those who were in the grave that came out AT LEAST THAT IS WHAT IS WRITTEN

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH WHAT IS WRITTEN VS WHAT YOU ARE PUTTING FORTH

[DeighAnn]

AND ALL BODIES STAY IN THE GRAVE FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND HAS NOTHING, I REPEAT, NOTHING TO DO WITH US OR OUR LIFE EVER AGAIN.  IT IS CORRUPTIBLE.  DECAYS.    


GOD GAVE US TWO BODIES.  ONE IS MADE UP FROM THE DUST OF THE EARTH AND ANOTHER ONE IS HEAVENLY.  THE DUSTY ONE DOESN'T LAST BUT THE ONE TIME WE ARE PUT IN IT.  WHEN OUR SPIRIT SOUL IS DONE WITH IT IT GOES BACK TO THE DUST FROM WHENCE IT CAME AT LEAST THAT IS WHAT IS WRITTEN


 

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[Retrobyter]

On 9/23/2021 at 9:54 AM, Uriah said:

Indeed! 

1.  separate, sever

2. to part asunder

3. to separate one's self, depart from

The sky has departed. But it says even more. "Like a scroll when it is rolled together..." 

Shalom, Uriah.

No, you're not reading the definition correctly. The word means to "SPLIT!"

1. To separate (one half from the other); to sever (in two)
2. To part asunder means "to split in half!"
3. To separate one's self (from another); i.e., to DIVORCE! "To depart from" a UNION!

A scroll when it is rolled TOGETHER is NOT talking about it UNROLLING! It's talking about the shape of the clouds in the atmosphere! It's a ROLL CLOUD!

One must understand what naturally occurs in the wake of a supersonic meteorite, and how a person who has never studied meteorology (weather) would try to describe what he was seeing!

We've had a GREAT example of a roll cloud right here in the Plant City, FL, area just yesterday! One side of the sky was blue, the other side was dark grey and black! And, that was just at the front of a cold front pushing through! All one has to do is ask Google, "What does a roll cloud look like?" One will be amazed at how closely that cloud resembles a scroll!

A meteorITE not only streaks through the sky, but it also burrows a path on the earth where it strikes, kicking up all that dirt and debris to add to the atmospheric disturbance! Craters are not always circular; it depends on the angle of approach.

On 9/23/2021 at 9:54 AM, Uriah said:

Isaiah 34:- 2 & 4- For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.

And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree...

This is the same event as we see in Rev.6. A scroll rolling up is easy to understand, it is nothing like a "path".

It's possible this is the same event, but one should not just assume that it is. "All the host of heaven" are the BIRDS! They will all be affected by the shock wave and be stunned in mid-flight, falling through the air, many to their deaths. Verse 4 is predicated by the word "Vnaamaquw" which means "and they shall decay or rot or pine away," although translated "shall be dissolved." One might assume from context that these birds will "decay or rot" in mid-flight! If it occurs in OUR future, then it may also include all of our air traffic as part of this "host of heaven."

Nothing like a "path?" Sure it is. It's not a mushroom cloud, but a streaking meteor through the atmosphere at supersonic speeds will produce roll clouds on either side of its path!

On 9/23/2021 at 9:54 AM, Uriah said:

The the sky is rolled away to reveal the new heavens made the Rev.8 asteroid impact ejecting material into space that creates the large hailstones and leaves a fine layer sphere around the planet making the sky permanently reddish. 

No, this is a different event entirely. While Revelation 8's meteorites are certainly connected to the herald meteorites of Revelation 6, this is all PREPARATORY to the Millennium! The New Heaven (or the New Sky or New Atmosphere) doesn't happen until AFTER the Millennium.

On 9/23/2021 at 9:54 AM, Uriah said:

Psalm 102:25 & 26- Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:

"like a garment"- easily understood, as seen when you cross your arms and  pull your T shirt from the waist up and over your head.

"shall be changed"- 

to pass on or away, pass through, pass by, go through, grow up, change, to go on from

to pass on quickly

to pass away (vanish)

to come on anew, sprout again 

to pass through

to overstep, transgress

 to cause to pass, change

to change, substitute, alter, change for better, renew

to show newness 

Also I don't know how you say the Rev 6 event is not a planet-wide event where it says every mountain and island fled away. This is a direct contradiction of what the scripture says

"every"- 

individually

each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything

collectively

some of all types

 

Well, if one is going to check the verb in verses 25 through 27, one should check them all:

In verse 25, we have the verb "yaacadtaa." This is the second-person, masculine, singular form of the Qal Perfect tense of the verb "yaacad" meaning "to establish; to found; or to fix." That word "fix" doesn't mean to "repair"; it means to make something a permanent "fixture"; to make something "rigid."

In verse 26, we first have the verb "yo'Veeduw." This is the third-person, masculine, plural form of the Qal Imperfect tense of the verb "aaVad" meaning "to perish." Thus, it means "they shall perish."

The second verb we see is "ta`amod." This is the second-person, masculine, singular form of the Qal Imperfect tense of the verb "`aamad" meaning "to take one's stand" or just "to stand." Thus, the word means "You (singular) shall stand."

The third verb we see is "yiVluw." This is the third-person, masculine, plural form of the Qal Imperfect tense of "baalaah," which means "to become old" or "to wear out." Thus, the word means "they shall wear out."

The fourth verb we have is "tachaliyfeem." This is the second-person, masculine, singular subject with a third-person, masculine, plural object of the Hifil Imperfect tense of "chaalaf," meaning "to pass on" or "to pass away" or "to pass through." Thus, the word means "You will pass them on" or "You will pass them away" or "You will pass them through."

The fifth verb we have is "vyachalofuw." Using the vav conjunction, this is the third-person, masculine, plural form of the Qal Conjunctive Imperfect tense of the same word "chaalaf." Thus, the word means "they shall be passed on" or "they shall be passed away" or "they shall be passed through."

In verse 27, we have one more verb, "yittaammuw," the third-person, masculine, plural form of the Qal Imperfect tense of "taamam," meaning "to be complete" or "to be finished." With the negative particle, "lo'," it means "[your years] will have no end."

Since these verse were quoted in Hebrews 1:10-12, we can also use the Greek of this passage:

Hebrews 1:10-12 (KJV)

10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

The Greek is ...

Pros Hebraious 1:10-12

10 kai, Su kat' archas, Kurie, teen geen ethemelioosas, 
kai erga toon cheiroon sou eisin hoi ouranoi;
11 autoi apolountai, su de diameneis;
kai pantes hoos himation palaiootheesontai,
12 kai hoosei peribolaion elixeis autous,
hoos himation kai allageesontai;
su de ho autos ei
kai ta etee sou ouk ekleipsousin.

This translates to ...

For Hebrews 1:10-12

10 and, You down/against/according-to Beginning, Lord, of-the earth have-laid-[the]-foundation,
and works of-the hands of-you are the skies;
11 they will-perish, but <-> you remain;
and all like a-garment will-grow-old,
12 and like a-robe, you will-roll-up them,
like a-garment also they-will-be-changed/altered/exchanged/transformed;
but <-> you the same are
and the years of-you not will-ever-cease.

First, note that in both the Hebrew and the Greek, the EARTH IS FIXED; ESTABLISHED; FOUNDED. It's only the SKIES that shall be altered because they grow old. On the other hand, we are told by Peter in 2 Peter 3:3-13 that God is going to burn off the works of men from the earth.

Now, as far as your statement, "Also I don't know how you say the Rev 6 event is not a planet-wide event where it says every mountain and island fled away. This is a direct contradiction of what the scripture says "every"- individually each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything collectively some of all types,"

there's a DIFFERENCE between an event affecting the whole globe as though every part of the globe is directly affected by the event, and that every place on the globe will be affected indirectly by that event.

EVERYONE is going to feel the effects of a meteorite shower that threatens our existence, BUT not everyone on the face of the earth is going to be leveled by a meteorite!

As far as the prophet Yochanan ("John") is concerned, when he uses the words "all" and "every," he is referring to all that he can SEE! Every blade of grass WITHIN HIS FIELD OF VISION will be burned! I believe that the "sea" into which he sees the meteorite crash is the Mediterranean Sea! It's not globally a third of the life in the water and the vessels on the water that are destroyed; but the third of the life in and on the waters of the Mediterranean Sea will be so destroyed! It's to THIS John can attest! He KNEW the Mediterranean Sea! It was that body of water that separated him from his friends and family at the seven churches to whom he wrote in chapters 2 and 3 of Revelation!

Be careful in your universalisms. Be sure that WHEN you extend some effects of an event to the whole earth in every part that such an extension is justifiable.

[DeighAnn]

On 9/22/2021 at 7:27 PM, Uriah said:

My guess is that you believe them as well. These things show us directly that God is not limited by the constraints of time. Some call it a constant state of NOW.

EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY THING OF GOD IS done through a 'LAW'.  Everything follows after Gods laws.  All Gods words are laws.  A constant state of NOW???  What does that even mean?
 SOON even this 'NOW' WILL be a thing not even remembered.    I think its  all just a cop out when what is written doesn't fit so it's back to the OMNIpresence thing.  


GOD limits Himself with promises covenants swearing....EVEN Jesus had to come in the flesh to OVERTURN DEATH.  
 

Hebrews 2:12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

Hebrews 2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that THROUGH DEATH  he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Hebrews 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Hebrews 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

WHY ELSE WOULD WE BE TOLD 

1Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

1Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

 

 

[Retrobyter]

29 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Seriously,  could you even imagine if it took ALL THAT to be able to read the words of GOD?  Who could ever be saved?  And OF COURSE with the dissection of HEAVEN to mean only 'skies' so TRUTH can not be found.  But when heaven remains the heaven we know it all makes perfect sense.  

Shabbat shalom, DeighAnn.

"But when heaven remains the heaven we know," ASSUMES A HUGE AMOUNT of theological influence that was greatly affected by the neo-Helenism of Plato and Aristotle that was drawn into the theology one was taught in the 100s to 300s A.D!

"Heaven" DOESN'T mean "the heaven we know!" (UNLESS, you're thinking of phrases like "the birds of the heavens.") The truth is this: It's just as moronic to think of "Heaven" as being a place beyond the "heaven of clouds" and the "heaven of stars" as it is to think that Uranus is where the New Jerusalem will be one day because the name "Uranus" comes from the Greek word "ouranos," which means "sky" and is often translated as "heaven!" There's no more a "heaven as God's abode" than there is a "heaven" on Uranus!

29 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

GODs TRUTH is found in THE SPIRIT of the words.  NOT THE DEFINITIONS OF THEM.  NOT THE GRAMMAR.  

"Spirit" in this context means "ATTITUDE!" It's one thing to use the words blindly or as means by which one may exercise power over another human being; it's entirely a DIFFERENT thing to believe the words that God has given us in His Scriptures. Words mean NOTHING without definitions and grammar usage!

29 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

ALL the Pharisees and Sadducees KNEW THE WORDS yet the missed ALL THE TRUTHS.  THEY COULDN'T EVEN SEE JESUS WALKING AMONGST THEM as He was in the midst of fulfilling prophesy.  THEY KNEW the words.  BUT that is all they knew.  They had no spirit to lead them to the truths that were happening right then.  

No, they didn't! They could regurgitate the things they memorized from Scripture, but those words had no life to them! They had no meaning to them! It wasn't the Spirit of God they were missing (although that may be true, as well); it was just the spirit - the attitude - of the words they were reading that they were missing!

It was the same difference as we today experience. One says he or she believes in Christ - in the Messiah - but, at best, it's no more real to them than Superman or some other "super hero!" They've never made the connection to see Him as a REAL PERSON!

29 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

That is why WE RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT.  So that we can be LED BY THE SPIRIT and not by the LETTER. 

To me, this statement is NUTS! If the Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym, the Holy Spirit of God, is indeed all powerful, then shouldn't He lead by BOTH?! Why not the "letter," too? Shouldn't He give us a good sense of what they words mean, rather than just let us stumble over them, as though they served no purpose whatsoever?!

29 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I don't know how many times you want to do this with me but YOU KEEP DOING AS WE ARE TOLD NOT TO DO,  LIKE IT IS A GOOD THING.  

SURE when we get to a place where we need to go a little deeper to find the truth all those things you do are helpful but if that is all there is then there is a problem, IMHO anyhow.  

Do you think GOD wrote in some way in which CHILDREN couldn't understand?  Is there no common sense applied to anything?  

Of course God made the accounts easy to understand; however, that doesn't give anyone the right to remain STUPID! God expects one to GROW!

29 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Elijah.  Lets just take this one example.  
 
2Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

2Kings 2:2 And Elijah said unto Elisha, Tarry here, I pray thee; for the LORD hath sent me to Bethel. And Elisha said unto him, As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. So they went down to Bethel.

2Kings 2:3 And the sons of the prophets that were at Bethel came forth to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he said, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace.

2Kings 2:4 And Elijah said unto him, Elisha, tarry here, I pray thee; for the LORD hath sent me to Jericho. And he said, As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. So they came to Jericho.

2Kings 2:5 And the sons of the prophets that were at Jericho came to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he answered, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace.

2Kings 2:6 And Elijah said unto him, Tarry, I pray thee, here; for the LORD hath sent me to Jordan. And he said, As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. And they two went on.

2Kings 2:7 And fifty men of the sons of the prophets went, and stood to view afar off: and they two stood by Jordan.

2Kings 2:8 And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground.

2Kings 2:9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.

2Kings 2:10 And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.

2Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

OF COURSE, God warned Elisha several times about Eliyahuw being snatched away from him that day, but that doesn't change the fact that the word "shaamayim" means the "SKIES," not some ethereal, unsubstantial, non-physical place that idiots get all googly-eyed about and call it a "beatific vision!" Did you know that even the PATH they took that day spelled out what was about to transpire? "Gilgal," for instance, comes from the Hebrew word "galgal," which means a "whirlwind" or a "tornado!"

 

29 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Who sees' it?   

D

Simplicity does NOT give one the right to substitute "stupidity!"

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

AND ALL BODIES STAY IN THE GRAVE FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND HAS NOTHING, I REPEAT, NOTHING TO DO WITH US OR OUR LIFE EVER AGAIN.  IT IS CORRUPTIBLE.  DECAYS.    

Shabbat shalom, DeighAnn.

UNTIL IT'S NOT! "This corruptible must put on incorruption! This mortal must put on immortality!"

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

GOD GAVE US TWO BODIES.  ONE IS MADE UP FROM THE DUST OF THE EARTH AND ANOTHER ONE IS HEAVENLY.  THE DUSTY ONE DOESN'T LAST BUT THE ONE TIME WE ARE PUT IN IT.  WHEN OUR SPIRIT SOUL IS DONE WITH IT IT GOES BACK TO THE DUST FROM WHENCE IT CAME AT LEAST THAT IS WHAT IS WRITTEN

No, that's your philosophy, but Paul told us that the one body (the "spiritual") comes OUT OF the other body (the "soul-ual"). You'll get a SECOND BODY ONLY after the First General Resurrection when our Lord returns.

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Both of these verses have been given a HUGE amount of ridiculous interpretations that have NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR ORIGINAL MEANINGS!!!