Last Day Resurrection? How does that work?

[DeighAnn]

and I just woke up with these questions asking for answers

What I understand the 'belief's to be, so probably wrong but don't know what is right,

are either

1.  All who die/sleep are buried and are from that point on the body and spirit/soul remain'alseep' until the last day when their 'body/spirit/soul' is resurrected at Christs return and will be resurrected IN A BODY made up of the same body that had been dead and decaying and a part of the dust of the earth but AN EARTHLY body no matter what.  

2.  All who die/sleep are buried and their body remains 'asleep', decaying but their bodyless spirits return to heaven to await returning with Christ when at that time they are to be reunited with that buried decaying body which will be resurrected so the spirit can be rejoined with it and same as #1,will for the millennium will be a body 'made from the dust of the earth' and EARTHY body.  

or

3.  Which I believe is - when the flesh body dies the spirit/soul/body that descended down Jacobs ladder as an angel (heavenly body) is instantly released and as that same angel goes back to God IN A HEAVENLY BODY and to paradise to await
1.  returning with Christ or
2.  be shaken out or
3.  rolled up. 

but NEVER TO BE AN EARTHLY/terrestrial  BODY AGAIN but a HEAVENLY BODY/celestial/forever.  

Can't forget to add the a pre trib rapt bit of chaos and confusion  cause SEEING will stop the believing I believe, so if there is a pre trib rapt then in heaven

1.  will be angels (cause we are not)
2.  possibly 'spirits' without bodies (cause theirs is in the dirt of earth asleep and if they had bodies they would be spiritual you know, "angels")
3.  and those now "transformed" who have bodies but are not angels??? (how do you tell them apart?) 

those attending the wedding, I guess,  while tribulation such as never has been seen (probably cause the Lord is doing other things) is taking place on earth

Which would mean when Christ returns the ARMIES will consist of the
1.  'transformed' body and spirits, yet not angels (those pre trib rapted)
2.  'bodyless' spirits (bodies asleep in ground) and
3.  angels

(Maybe easy to see how all that goes against everything God) 

Then when they all get to earth the angels and the transformed wait in the sky while the 'bodyless' come to earth to get their new earthly bodies and then go back to the sky joining the others and then those who are alive and remain are transformed and they then join all those who have been waiting in the sky I think???

Which covers the 'believers'. 



 Now we have those who don't. 

All who died 'not believing' in Christ have their spirits and decaying bodies that won't 'rise' in any way shape or form until judgment day. And so are not a part of any of the 1000 years and ONLY come to 'life' after Satan is released and that war takes place. 

Which leaves us with those who have taken the mark of the beast,  upon whom Gods wrath is going to fall. 

Are they going to die, 1st death? Or not? 

If they don't die are they going to be burnt to a crisp till the day they do?  How long do they live?  Do they stay in the flesh the whole time?  Do they have babies?  Do they raise babies that aren't burnt?  What happens when they die?  What happens when their babies die? What happens at the end of the 1000 years?  Will there be babies fighting? 

It all just seems so much easier to have everyone who dies go to be in paradise and to either be shaken out of heaven or return with Christ and have the marked be slayed by the mouth of Him returning so that they can quickly resurrect in their incorruptible bodies (joining with those shaken out of heaven) to watch those who are alive and remaining be transformed and receive their immortality and join those who have returned with Christ to rule and reign for the next 1000 years


I do believe that  all those who where shaken out of heaven (not rolled away) and those when died at Christs return and resurrected to their incorruptible body (not in the pit) just like the shaken will be TAUGHT for the next 1000 years.  These are alive in body but must remain 'spiritually dead' (remain 'dead' for the 1000 years) while learning and only when tested at the end either 'come to being spiritually ALVIE/life' or die in lake of fire. 


time for some coffee...

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

 We will not inherit the KOG, in lieu of being flesh and blood. 

Hi Da Puppers, 

I must need to try and ask those questions in a different manner as I wasn't meaning to be asking the questions you gave answers to.  It was when I first woke up so I will have to go back over it.  MY questions have to do with LAST DAY, SATAN BEING PUT DOWN belief that 'all are resurrected' at that time but any way, some things didn't fit right so I am asking for clarification on a couple points...

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Doesn't this say 'in lieu of being flesh and blood'?  Seems if we were TO STAY flesh and blood we COULD NOT INHERIT the KOG.  Please explain why you say it is in lieu of...Thank you

 

3 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

 Our being changed from mortal to immortal,  corruptible to incorruptible occurs when we put on the full measure of the spirit. 

Again, you say it is with the 'full measure of the spirit' that takes place


 

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 

A physical and spiritual thing

1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

I do understand the resurrection from the 'spiritually dead' to the 'made alive in Christ' aspect of resurrection to a higher state but this here is speaking specifically to DEAD FLESH BODIES.  

 the Chapter is about DEATH, dying, and resurrection of the flesh body, 

WE shall not all die, but we all will be changed  PHYSICALLY

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.


Thank you for the reply....D

4 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

The KOG is righteousness,  etc.   Not unrighteousness.   The body is dead because of sin but the spirit is life because of righteousness. 

I understand the spiritual aspect you are putting forth but that doesn't change the physical one.  The earthy/flesh/terrestrial body will die and the spiritual body will rise even though it is made dead through Christ now and our spirit will only pass through death because of righteousness.  



Again Thank you  D




 

[Uriah]

 Hello DeighAnn,

 I think this is what you are looking for, even though I posted this explanation somewhere around here. ( been gone from the discussions here for  a while).

  Anyway, we ALL are resurrected at the same time when Jesus Second coming takes place.

John 5:29- And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Please keep in mind that Jesus explained it like this,

John 5:24-Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 

This means that it has to do with TIME! 

Isaiah 57:15- For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy;

There is no perception of the movement of time with God, because "eternity" is not only a concept of distance/vastness, but also pertains to a comparison of how we perceive time with that of how it is outside of the confines of this sphere in we now live. I think of it as simply timelessness, constant state of NOW.

So, a believer who died long ago would experience what would seem like nodding off for a second ore so, only to the find himself being brought by Jesus -in the air- at His Second Coming to meet us there with Him a few seconds later at the rapture.

they "pass from death to life", and nearly simultaneously, "we are changed" at THE RESURRECTION.

Heb 11:40- since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.  

[abcdef]

On 9/9/2021 at 8:54 AM, DeighAnn said:

and I just woke up with these questions asking for answers

What I understand the 'belief's to be, so probably wrong but don't know what is right,

are either

1.  All who die/sleep are buried and are from that point on the body and spirit/soul remain'alseep' until the last day when their 'body/spirit/soul' is resurrected at Christs return and will be resurrected IN A BODY made up of the same body that had been dead and decaying and a part of the dust of the earth but AN EARTHLY body no matter what.  

2.  All who die/sleep are buried and their body remains 'asleep', decaying but their bodyless spirits return to heaven to await returning with Christ when at that time they are to be reunited with that buried decaying body which will be resurrected so the spirit can be rejoined with it and same as #1,will for the millennium will be a body 'made from the dust of the earth' and EARTHY body.  

or

3.  Which I believe is - when the flesh body dies the spirit/soul/body that descended down Jacobs ladder as an angel (heavenly body) is instantly released and as that same angel goes back to God IN A HEAVENLY BODY and to paradise to await
1.  returning with Christ or
2.  be shaken out or
3.  rolled up. 

but NEVER TO BE AN EARTHLY/terrestrial  BODY AGAIN but a HEAVENLY BODY/celestial/forever.  

There are only 2 resurrections, 1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24.

1st resurrection, Jesus and the OT saints. John 5:25

2nd resurrection, the kingdom and the unsaved. John 5:28-29.

======

The first resurrection, The souls from "paradise" rise into heaven with Jesus in 33 AD.

They are the 144000 and the multitude that no man can number who are seen with Jesus and John at the writing of the Revelation in 85- 96 AD ish, Rev 7.

They are the ones that Jesus brings with him when He comes for the kingdom at the 2nd resurrection.

They are the ones who live and reign with Jesus from heaven for the symbolic 1000 yrs of the kingdom/church period that we are at the end of now, 33 AD/Pentecost-present. The first resurrection of Rev 20 is showing the first resurrection with Jesus in 33 AD, literally the first.

They are the ones who are seen standing on the sea of glass in Rev 15:2.

======

The second resurrection, (1) those from paradise who have died since the first resurrection with Jesus, (2) those who are in the kingdom and alive, (3)then the rest of the unsaved.

1. Those who are in the kingdom/church or saved, who have died since the first resurrection and are in "paradise". They are Paul and the apostles, and mainly the members of the kingdom/church under the new covenant. If we die, we go to "paradise" to wait with those who will be resurrected when Jesus comes for the kingdom.

--

2. Those who are alive when Jesus comes for the kingdom, on the last day. The last day is, the last day of human life on planet earth. Then the planet is turned to fire by the "fire from heaven" of Rev 20, after the second resurrection, when Jesus comes for the kingdom. (You might notice how the events shown in Rev 20 parallel the events shown in 1 Cor 15:23-28. First resurrection, Second resurrection, death is destroyed, the wedding Rev 21, God is All in All.)

--

3. The unsaved are all resurrected at the second resurrection. The unsaved who are alive after second resurrection when Jesus comes for the kingdom are killed within the hour by the fire from heaven. So those who are saved are taken to heaven with Jesus before the fire from heaven and the unsaved must be killed before appearing before the throne as souls.

---

The last day, is literally the last day of human life on this planet. The theory that there will be time to repent and be saved after Jesus comes for the kingdom is not true. The door will be shut.

 

On 9/9/2021 at 8:54 AM, DeighAnn said:

Can't forget to add the a pre trib rapt bit of chaos and confusion  cause SEEING will stop the believing I believe, so if there is a pre trib rapt then in heaven

1.  will be angels (cause we are not)
2.  possibly 'spirits' without bodies (cause theirs is in the dirt of earth asleep and if they had bodies they would be spiritual you know, "angels")
3.  and those now "transformed" who have bodies but are not angels??? (how do you tell them apart?) 

those attending the wedding, I guess,  while tribulation such as never has been seen (probably cause the Lord is doing other things) is taking place on earth

Which would mean when Christ returns the ARMIES will consist of the
1.  'transformed' body and spirits, yet not angels (those pre trib rapted)
2.  'bodyless' spirits (bodies asleep in ground) and
3.  angels

(Maybe easy to see how all that goes against everything God) 

Then when they all get to earth the angels and the transformed wait in the sky while the 'bodyless' come to earth to get their new earthly bodies and then go back to the sky joining the others and then those who are alive and remain are transformed and they then join all those who have been waiting in the sky I think???

Which covers the 'believers'. 



 Now we have those who don't. 

All who died 'not believing' in Christ have their spirits and decaying bodies that won't 'rise' in any way shape or form until judgment day. And so are not a part of any of the 1000 years and ONLY come to 'life' after Satan is released and that war takes place. 

Which leaves us with those who have taken the mark of the beast,  upon whom Gods wrath is going to fall. 

Are they going to die, 1st death? Or not? 

If they don't die are they going to be burnt to a crisp till the day they do?  How long do they live?  Do they stay in the flesh the whole time?  Do they have babies?  Do they raise babies that aren't burnt?  What happens when they die?  What happens when their babies die? What happens at the end of the 1000 years?  Will there be babies fighting? 

It all just seems so much easier to have everyone who dies go to be in paradise and to either be shaken out of heaven or return with Christ and have the marked be slayed by the mouth of Him returning so that they can quickly resurrect in their incorruptible bodies (joining with those shaken out of heaven) to watch those who are alive and remaining be transformed and receive their immortality and join those who have returned with Christ to rule and reign for the next 1000 years


I do believe that  all those who where shaken out of heaven (not rolled away) and those when died at Christs return and resurrected to their incorruptible body (not in the pit) just like the shaken will be TAUGHT for the next 1000 years.  These are alive in body but must remain 'spiritually dead' (remain 'dead' for the 1000 years) while learning and only when tested at the end either 'come to being spiritually ALVIE/life' or die in lake of fire. 

We will be like Him.

God created the universe, so how much greater is God, than the universe that He created? Is God larger than the universe? Being much more powerful than the powers that He created, that He controls?

Or, is He just a little gray haired old man who walks with a cane?

Too many see Him as the old man with a cane, and not as eternal and controlling the universe.

Who can make an image of Him? Do we make Him human? Because that is we can relate to? Is the flesh of Jesus, that we perceive, the entirety of God, or perhaps, only one facet, one minute fraction of the greater Creator?

The Father/Jesus is far beyond our perception, far greater, and the thought, that we will be like Him, is far greater than we can imagine. 

We should not confine our hopes to the parameters of this material universe.

As long as there is flesh, there will be sin.

But we will not be in the flesh, we will be changed, into His eternal image, far greater than this present flesh. Trying to understand the details is far beyond our present comprehension. 

 

On 9/9/2021 at 8:54 AM, DeighAnn said:

time for some coffee...

Coffee is good.

[Retrobyter]

On 9/9/2021 at 9:54 AM, DeighAnn said:

and I just woke up with these questions asking for answers

What I understand the 'belief's to be, so probably wrong but don't know what is right,

are either

1.  All who die/sleep are buried and are from that point on the body and spirit/soul remain'alseep' until the last day when their 'body/spirit/soul' is resurrected at Christs return and will be resurrected IN A BODY made up of the same body that had been dead and decaying and a part of the dust of the earth but AN EARTHLY body no matter what.  

2.  All who die/sleep are buried and their body remains 'asleep', decaying but their bodyless spirits return to heaven to await returning with Christ when at that time they are to be reunited with that buried decaying body which will be resurrected so the spirit can be rejoined with it and same as #1,will for the millennium will be a body 'made from the dust of the earth' and EARTHY body.  

or

3.  Which I believe is - when the flesh body dies the spirit/soul/body that descended down Jacobs ladder as an angel (heavenly body) is instantly released and as that same angel goes back to God IN A HEAVENLY BODY and to paradise to await
1.  returning with Christ or
2.  be shaken out or
3.  rolled up. 

but NEVER TO BE AN EARTHLY/terrestrial  BODY AGAIN but a HEAVENLY BODY/celestial/forever.  

Shalom, DeighAnn.

We've talked about this before, but you put ENTIRELY TOO MUCH weight on this "Jacob's ladder" interpretation. The ONLY WAY one gets a new body is through faith in Yeshua` the Messiah of God. READ 1 Corinthians 15:

1 Corinthians 15:12-57 (KJV)

12 Now if Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed to be King over Israel) be preached that "he rose from the dead," how say some among you that "there is no resurrection of the dead?" 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ (the Messiah) not risen: 14 And if Christ (the Messiah) be not risen, then is our preaching vain (empty; useless), and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that "he raised up Christ (the Messiah)": whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ (the Messiah) raised: 17 And if Christ (the Messiah) be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins! 18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ (in the Messiah), we are of all men most miserable.

20 But now IS Christ (the Messiah) risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order:

(0) Christ the firstfruits;
(1) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 
24 (2) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 

25 For he (the Messiah) must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. (But when he saith, "all things are put under him," it is manifest [obvious] that he [GOD] is excepted, which did put all things under him [the Messiah]). 

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? 30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? 31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily! 32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die. 33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. 34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

35 But some man will say, "How are the dead raised up?" and "with what body do they come?" 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead.
It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory:
it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

There is a natural (Greek: psuchikon = "air-breathing") body, and there is a spiritual (Greek: pneumatikon = "air-blasting") body. 45 And so it is written,

"The first man Adam was made a living soul (Hebrew: nefesh; Greek: psuchee = "air-breathing creature")";

the last Adam was made a quickening spirit (Greek: pneuma) = "a life-giving, air-blasting creature" or "wind") . 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven (the Master from the sky). 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood (muscle and blood, as it is now) cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption (that which may decay) inherit incorruption (that which cannot decay). 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep (die), but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED, 52 IN A MOMENT, IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,

"Death is swallowed up in victory."

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ (our Master Yeshua` the Messiah).

And, I'll just point out by way of reminder, we weren't first "angels" because of verse 26:

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

I don't find the term "spiritual" very useful today because it is currently used in SO MANY WRONG ways! It IS important if one can use the word as it was used here by Paul, going no farther into the vain imaginations of human beings. It does NOT refer to "non-physical," nor does it refer to "other-worldly."

On 9/9/2021 at 9:54 AM, DeighAnn said:

Can't forget to add the a pre trib rapt bit of chaos and confusion  cause SEEING will stop the believing I believe, so if there is a pre trib rapt then in heaven

1.  will be angels (cause we are not)
2.  possibly 'spirits' without bodies (cause theirs is in the dirt of earth asleep and if they had bodies they would be spiritual you know, "angels")
3.  and those now "transformed" who have bodies but are not angels??? (how do you tell them apart?) 

None of the above. By the way, "spiritual bodies" DO NOT EQUAL "angels!" "Angels" (Greek: aggeloi) are simply "messengers." Whereas in some cases within the Scriptures, these messengers may be supernatural, there are MANY cases, both in Hebrew (mal'akhiym) and in Greek, these messengers are better seen as simply human beings sent with a message!

On 9/9/2021 at 9:54 AM, DeighAnn said:

... those attending the wedding, I guess,  while tribulation such as never has been seen (probably cause the Lord is doing other things) is taking place on earth

Which would mean when Christ returns the ARMIES will consist of the
1.  'transformed' body and spirits, yet not angels (those pre trib rapted)
2.  'bodyless' spirits (bodies asleep in ground) and
3.  angels

(Maybe easy to see how all that goes against everything God) 

Then when they all get to earth the angels and the transformed wait in the sky while the 'bodyless' come to earth to get their new earthly bodies and then go back to the sky joining the others and then those who are alive and remain are transformed and they then join all those who have been waiting in the sky I think???

Which covers the 'believers'. 

You've forgotten, neglected, or never knew the Scriptures that speak of our Lord's ZEAL in fighting for His people!

In the days of Hezekiah and Sennacherib, God had this to say:

2 Kings 19:29-34 (KJV)

29 And this shall be a sign unto thee, Ye shall eat this year such things as grow of themselves, and in the second year that which springeth of the same; and in the third year sow ye, and reap, and plant vineyards, and eat the fruits thereof. 30 And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall yet again take root downward, and bear fruit upward. 31 For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of hosts shall do this.

32 Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the king of Assyria,

"He shall not come into this city, nor shoot an arrow there, nor come before it with shield, nor cast a bank against it. 33 By the way that he came, by the same shall he return, and shall not come into this city," saith the LORD. 34 "For I will defend this city, to save it, for mine own sake, and for my servant David's sake."

God accomplished this in the verses to follow:

2 Kings 19:35-37 (KJV)

35 And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand (185,000): and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses! 36 So Sennacherib king of Assyria departed, and went and returned, and dwelt at Nineveh. 37 And it came to pass, as he was worshipping in the house of Nisroch his god, that Adrammelech and Sharezer his sons smote him with the sword: and they escaped into the land of Armenia. And Esarhaddon his son reigned in his stead.

Yesha`Yahuw (Isaiah) expanded upon this into the future:

Isaiah 41:8-20 (KJV)

8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

9 Thou whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou art my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.

10 Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.

11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish.

12 Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee: they that war against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nought.

13 For I the LORD thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee.

14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.

15 Behold, I will make thee a new sharp threshing instrument having teeth: thou shalt thresh the mountains, and beat them small, and shalt make the hills as chaff.

16 Thou shalt fan them, and the wind shall carry them away, and the whirlwind shall scatter them: and thou shalt rejoice in the LORD, and shalt glory in the Holy One of Israel.

17 When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue faileth for thirst, I the LORD will hear them, I the God of Israel will not forsake them.

18 I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.

19 I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the shittah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together:

20 That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the LORD hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it.

 

On 9/9/2021 at 9:54 AM, DeighAnn said:

Now we have those who don't. 

All who died 'not believing' in Christ have their spirits and decaying bodies that won't 'rise' in any way shape or form until judgment day. And so are not a part of any of the 1000 years and ONLY come to 'life' after Satan is released and that war takes place. 

Which leaves us with those who have taken the mark of the beast,  upon whom Gods wrath is going to fall. 

Are they going to die, 1st death? Or not? 

If they don't die are they going to be burnt to a crisp till the day they do?  How long do they live?  Do they stay in the flesh the whole time?  Do they have babies?  Do they raise babies that aren't burnt?  What happens when they die?  What happens when their babies die? What happens at the end of the 1000 years?  Will there be babies fighting? 

It all just seems so much easier to have everyone who dies go to be in paradise and to either be shaken out of heaven or return with Christ and have the marked be slayed by the mouth of Him returning so that they can quickly resurrect in their incorruptible bodies (joining with those shaken out of heaven) to watch those who are alive and remaining be transformed and receive their immortality and join those who have returned with Christ to rule and reign for the next 1000 years


I do believe that  all those who where shaken out of heaven (not rolled away) and those when died at Christs return and resurrected to their incorruptible body (not in the pit) just like the shaken will be TAUGHT for the next 1000 years.  These are alive in body but must remain 'spiritually dead' (remain 'dead' for the 1000 years) while learning and only when tested at the end either 'come to being spiritually ALVIE/life' or die in lake of fire. 


time for some coffee...

 

[DeighAnn]

On 9/9/2021 at 7:34 PM, Uriah said:

  Anyway, we ALL are resurrected at the same time when Jesus Second coming takes place.

John 5:29- And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Please keep in mind that Jesus explained it like this,

John 5:24-Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 

Hi Uriah,

Oh, the same problem I am having with EVERYONE else

I can't FIND where you (or anyone else) are finding 'AT THE SECOND' coming.  I find lots and lots about the penalty for 'death' being paid, The Lords work being done, sins being forgiven, graves being opened, the last day death reigned, being with Jesus where he is, Jesus going to prepare a place for us, thief in paradise that day, rich man and poor man in paradise, victory over death, everlasting life, death losing its sting, the saints returning WITH them at the second coming etc... but none for that.  
 

John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

This is NOT ONLY FUTURE.  THIS IS PAST AND PRESENT AND FUTURE.  If you see 'as second coming' here, please show me.  
 

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you,      He that heareth my word,        and believeth on Him that sent Me,

1.  hath everlasting life  - WHAT part does death have in everlasting life? 

HOW is it possible to be HELD in a state of SIN/DEATH when ALL SIN HAS BEEN REMOVED? 

How is it that the CURSE brings with it an INSTANT EFFECT 'death' yet EVEN with the PAYMENT PAID it does not take  EFFECT UNTIL 


2.  and shall not come into condemnation - how is being held (kept from the Lord) in 'the grave' or 'sleeping' or 'how ever the many other ways people choose to look upon the death of the flesh') not to be considered COMING INTO CONDEMNATION?  

IF we have already been crucifying our flesh and Living in the spirit , then why does everyone insist upon what happens to the flesh as having any bearing upon us other than our 'PLACEMENT' in the universe?

HOW CAN THE death of the sinful FLESH and the reason for is REMAIN in CONTROL under any circumstances   How can it in any way EFFECT our spiritual body soul and spirit from CONTINUING ON and us remaining with the Lord always? 

NO SIN NO DEATH but of the flesh so that we just pass on by it,  seems so easy.

but is passed from death unto life.

The only thing to SLEEP/die right now is flesh body. It is going back to where it came from and is made up of, EARTH.  It will never again be used by us.  We live and die once in the FLESH BODY.  "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body".

This PROVEs that death of the flesh is nothing to those WHO RECEIVE FAITH (7:1 A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one's birth.  2 It is better to go to the house of mourning, than to go to the house of feasting: for that is the end of all men; and the living will lay it to his heart.  3 Sorrow is better than laughter: for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better).

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

SHEEP amongst wolves. Wolves KILL sheep.  Our FLESH DEATH is a GOOD especially  when it is done FOR HIM. 

HERE ARE SOME OF GODS INSTRUCTIONS TO US

Matthew 10:28 And FEAR NOT THEM  which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul

but rather FEAR HIM  which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

THE BODY 'made up of FLESH' has nothing TO DO WITH the real 'DEATH' of the SOUL AND BODY.  NO WONDER HE GAVE US THE TWO OF THEM.  
 

 

Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

What would that matter if NO ONE IS GOING THERE?

 

Matthew 10:38 AND HE THAT TAKETH NOT HIS CROSS AND FOLLOWETH AFTER ME IS NOT WORTHY OF ME.  

WHAT ARE CROSSES FOR?  DEATH OF THE FLESH BODY

Matthew 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

EITHER THIS IS TRUE OR IT IS NOT

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.


John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in Himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in Himself;

John 5:27 And hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.


IS THIS TRUE?  DID THE GRAVES OPEN?  DID THE PEOPLE RESURRECT?  There are even verses that speak to both at the same time, BOTH EQUALLY GODS TRUTH though they cover completely different things.  Some 'dead' spiritually and so DEAD as far as God is concerned while they are yet walking talking and breathing here upon the earth.  Then there are those who have had their 'flesh' die and are also raised...
 

Ezekiel 37:4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.

Ezekiel 37:5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:

Ezekiel 37:6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

Ezekiel 37:7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.

Ezekiel 37:8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.

Ezekiel 37:9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

Ezekiel 37:10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

Ezekiel 37:11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

Ezekiel 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

Ezekiel 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

Ezekiel 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

 

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

WHAT SCRIPTURE TELLS US THIS EVER STOPPED?  

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

WHAT DID JESUS ACCOMPLISH ON THE CROSS BESIDES us not having to 'slit the throat' of the animal we found best to shed blood so that we could be forgiven for WHAT WE HAD DONE (the ordinances and all that was against us), not having to 'confess' to another human being, not having a priest talk to God for us but letting us have our own conversations, not having to be perfect to die without sin, salvation (if you think we have to quit trying you are listening to doctrines that make void the words of God)

The STING Of death.  NO longer do we fear being put into a hole in the ground till a 'last day' resurrection while the flesh decays and we are worm food.  NO WE HAVE BEEN SET FREE knowing that when we die WE GOD to be where Jesus is.  IF NOT WOULD HE HAVE TOLD US SO?  

 

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 14:29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

John 14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

John 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

John 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

John 15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

John 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

John 15:21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

John 15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

John 15:24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

John 15:25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 15:27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

John 16:3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

John 16:4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.

John 16:5 But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?

John 16:6 But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

John 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

John 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

John 16:17 Then said some of his disciples among themselves, What is this that he saith unto us, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me: and, Because I go to the Father?

John 16:18 They said therefore, What is this that he saith, A little while? we cannot tell what he saith.

John 16:19 Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?

John 16:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.

John 16:21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.

John 16:22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.

John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

John 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

John 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

John 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

John 16:27 For the Father Himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

John 16:29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.

John 16:30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

John 16:31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?

John 16:32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

WHERE DID CHRIST TELL He was going?

I LEAVE THE WORLD AND GO TO THE FATHER.. 
In my Father's house are many mansions...
I go to prepare a place for you.

I will come again,
and receive you unto myself
THAT WHERE I AM THERE YE MY BE ALSO 


When I die, I hope/expect to not 'be asleep' any longer than it takes for all life to be extinguished  from the flesh thereby releasing my spiritual body and at that time 

I HOPE/EXPECT to see HIM, 
I HOPE/EXPECT HIM to receive me,
I HOPE/EXPECT TO BE WHERE HE IS.  

I also HOPE/EXPECT to be returning with Him when He returns and I HOPE/EXPECT to see the EVIL/wicked slayed and to see all those who are alive and remaining AFTER THAT HAPPENS to be CHANGED and gathered up with all those returning with Christ and to be there to see HIS foot touch the Mount and to watch the events taking place upon the earth.  


Again, not personal to you, just a general thing...Thank you for the reply...D

[DeighAnn]

22 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

(0) Christ the firstfruits;
(1) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 
24 (2) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 

Yes, yes we have Retro, and yet still here we are...

Romans 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

Romans 16:4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.

Romans 16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my well-beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.


1. Christ
2. The first fruits
3.  The alive and remaining  THEN COMES THE END OF THE FLESH AGE.  ALL THE DEAD DEAD AND IN THEIR HEAVENLY/CELESTIAL BODIES WHILE THE FOWLS OF THE AIR ARE FEASTING UPON WHAT ONCE WAS THEIR FLESH AND THOUGH THEY WILL REMAIN DEAD (MORTAL) FOR THE NEXT 1000 YEARS WHILE THEY ARE TAUGHT GODS TRUTH THEY MAY, IF THEY WISH RECEIVE THEIR IMMORTALITY LIKE THOSE WHO WERE ALIVE AND REMAINING AND CHANGED DID WHEN CHRIST RETURNED AT THE 2ND ADVENT AS LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS.  


CHRIST THE FIRST FRUITS OF ?????????

NOW HOWEVER CHRIST HAS BEEN RAISED FROM THE DEAD


TRY  ING UP ON IT from a different direction...maybe that will help

FIRSTFRUIT OF THOSE HAVING FALLEN ASLEEP

maybe read the reply to Uriah   

D
 

[DeighAnn]

On 9/9/2021 at 7:34 PM, Uriah said:

So, a believer who died long ago would experience what would seem like nodding off for a second ore so, only to the find himself being brought by Jesus -in the air- at His Second Coming to meet us there with Him a few seconds later at the rapture.

Which would all be just fine and dandy if over 1/2 the population didn't know absolutely everything that ever took place and had read and studied the words of God BUT

HOW CHAOTIC would it be for, lets just say ABEL for the sake of argument,  to have to ADJUST to the person NOW standing next to him who STUDIED all the laws and ways and works of God for 50 years having died 3 days before that 'last day'?  

That is what 'SLEEPING' gets you. Nothing. 

Now for the sake of argument ABEL has been for the past 6000 years up in paradise with all those who have been descending and ascending to the earth.  Let's just say IT IS JUST EXACTLY LIKE A KINGDOM in Heaven right now.  Let's say it is so much like the earth in the way things are run that at some point THERE EVEN COULD BE A WAR.  Could you imagine???  

NOW you have RETURNING with CHRIST those who are UP ON ALL THE ACTIVITIES OF THE PAST  AND CAN OFFER TO THOSE THEY WILL BE JUDGING WHEN AS THEY WILL BE REIGNING AND RULING WITH CHRIST FOR THE NEXT 1000 YEARS  THE EXACT SAME KNOWLEDGE.  

Or do you think that for a whole bunch of time God is going to be sitting around as the 'teachers' are taught?  

DOES no one think of these things in terms of how they will get done?  SURE GOD IS GOD but GOD CREATED US as beings that DO THINGS, not as beings HE installs thoughts and feelings and knowledge into.  WE are to give Him pleasure, if He has to do it all on his own that just wouldn't be any fun AND THEN HOW COULD YOU JUDGE SOMEONE?  They could look at you and say 'well I guess you didn't do a very good job in me' and never have to take responsibility for anything.  I am just going to stop.  

Again, same as the first, not personal... as I am the one on the outside it seems and will stay there until shown verses I can 'see' saying those things....  THANK YOU AGAIN, really, I do appreciate it.  Iron truly does sharpen iron...I love all this growing that is happening.  I sure hope you are doing the same.  It seems every time  something becomes clearer.    D

Edited September 11, 2021 by DeighAnn
ABLE ABEL sleeping

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

We've talked about this before, but you put ENTIRELY TOO MUCH weight on this "Jacob's ladder" interpretation. The ONLY WAY one gets a new body is through faith in Yeshua` the Messiah of God. READ 1 Corinthians 15:

If you could just add IMO sometimes it might just mitigate some issues coming that way...

NO, I am NOT putting 'ENTIRELY TOO MUCH' weight ON JACOBS LADDER. 
IT ISN'T AN INTERPRETATION.

GOD GAVE THE DREAM AND GOD ALSO TELLS US EXACTLY WHAT THE DREAM MEANS. 
WE DON'T GET TO MESS WITH IT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES,  EVER.  

EVERYONE GETS A NEW BODY.  THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY. 

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FAITH.  

Though IMMORTALITY COMES FROM FAITH.  SO LETS SEE IT AGAIN.  

 

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

Big difference between spiritual body IMMORTAL and spiritual body MORTAL.  

IMMORTAL - alive and remaining and EVER WITH THE LORD, of the 1st resurrection, 2nd death has no effect, pre ordained, fore knew, very elect, elect endured to the end,  etc.  


MORTAL - 'the dead rise' first,  let the dead bury the dead,   speak to these dead bones (before faith) etc. 

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

The 'nations' that were DECEIVED, those who have received the mark of the beast, they don't go into the pit.  They will remain 'dead' but THEY will be coming to worship at the temple for the next 1000 years.  Though they be 'dead/mortal/liable to be going into the lake of fire at the end of it all.  

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

They can't LIVE/become immortal until they are TESTED, same as many today, when Satan is loosed again for a short season.  ONLY THEN can they receive immortality/live.   

 

1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Remember the RICH MAN in PARADISE?  His earthly body was in a grave in the dust of the earth but he was in paradise.  


Something to ponder  

At the end of the millennium when JUDGMENT is TAKING PLACE do you really believe that there will be ANYONE being judged who will have any sort of 'built in EXCUSE' such as 'my sinful flesh' was the problem?  or 'I was crippled' or 'I have a mental disability' or "I was abused"???   NOT a chance. 

THE EVIL JUDGED will be FROM THE HEARTS AND THE MINDS, there will be NO EXCUSE because of any physical problems.   ALL will have been in the exact same KIND of body.  All their most perfect 'image' of themselves.    

The 'mortal body' will become incorruptible same as the immortal body (except in the lake of fire) 

The difference between the millennium 'peoples' will be those who have received their immortality and those who have not  aka the quick and the dead
 

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

1 Peter 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

1 Peter 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

1 Peter 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

1 Peter 4:5 Who shall give account to Him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

1 Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

1 Peter 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

That addresses that I think and  I'll be back soon.  Thank you for bringing this up again, always finding new old verses... D

[Uriah]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Which would all be just fine and dandy if over 1/2 the population didn't know absolutely everything that ever took place and had read and studied the words of God BUT

HOW CHAOTIC would it be for, lets just say ABEL for the sake of argument,  to have to ADJUST to the person NOW standing next to him who STUDIED all the laws and ways and works of God for 50 years having died 3 days before that 'last day'?  

That is what 'SLEEPING' gets you. Nothing. 

Now for the sake of argument ABEL has been for the past 6000 years up in paradise with all those who have been descending and ascending to the earth.  Let's just say IT IS JUST EXACTLY LIKE A KINGDOM in Heaven right now.  Let's say it is so much like the earth in the way things are run that at some point THERE EVEN COULD BE A WAR.  Could you imagine???  

NOW you have RETURNING with CHRIST those who are UP ON ALL THE ACTIVITIES OF THE PAST  AND CAN OFFER TO THOSE THEY WILL BE JUDGING WHEN AS THEY WILL BE REIGNING AND RULING WITH CHRIST FOR THE NEXT 1000 YEARS  THE EXACT SAME KNOWLEDGE.  

Or do you think that for a whole bunch of time God is going to be sitting around as the 'teachers' are taught?  

DOES no one think of these things in terms of how they will get done?  SURE GOD IS GOD but GOD CREATED US as beings that DO THINGS, not as beings HE installs thoughts and feelings and knowledge into.  WE are to give Him pleasure, if He has to do it all on his own that just wouldn't be any fun AND THEN HOW COULD YOU JUDGE SOMEONE?  They could look at you and say 'well I guess you didn't do a very good job in me' and never have to take responsibility for anything.  I am just going to stop.  

Again, same as the first, not personal... as I am the one on the outside it seems and will stay there until shown verses I can 'see' saying those things....  THANK YOU AGAIN, really, I do appreciate it.  Iron truly does sharpen iron...I love all this growing that is happening.  I sure hope you are doing the same.  It seems every time  something becomes clearer.    D

 Hi DeighAnn,

I will keep mine short.

There are only 2 resurrections spoken of in scripture, see Rev. 20. You have to use word games to make more. (redefine "first" to include more)

Matt. 25 shows the resurrection when Jesus returns-sheep and goats. That will be the FIRST!

The other one is AFTER the 1,000 yrs.-the SECOND!

There is no "sleep" at death, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord according to Paul. I say that is for ALL who have died and it is at the Second Coming according to Jesus! What justifies is negating the idea of TIME when someone dies. This is for believers. God may just as well make it so time seems prolonged at death for the unbelievers (death the day before he comes may seem like an eternity of wailing in darkness for them) 

My belief is that NO ONE was resurrected in Matt. 27. Is there anywhere in scripture where people were called "bodies". No, their name or a lad or young girl, was used. The manuscript is void of the word "resurrection". Bodies coming out of tombs is directly connected in the wording to an earthquake. The rest is likely the split rocks being seen around the city. Its the wording.

Every explanation you will see at this site or others. or in commentaries or sermons etc. will have its short fallings, because...1Cor 13:9- For we know in part,... so if you think you will find 100% satisfaction, sorry, God has wisely made it so we ALL require FAITH! 

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Uriah
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