Joel's Prophecies and the Day of the LORD

[not an echo]

14 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

14 hours ago, not an echo said:

Hey Da Puppers,

I'm thinking, you just got to like somebody that closes their thoughts with...

Be Blessed

The PuP

I do appreciate your replies, and that you have given (with your first and last paragraph) what I consider to be a straight up position on the exact phrase, "the day of the LORD."  I believe this will help our discussion, but I am waiting for a straight up reply to this from Marilyn, as you probably noticed.  When we get an understanding on this nailed down, maybe there will then be in place an understanding on which to continue this thread, as it concerns, Joel's Prophecies and the Day of the LORD.

Thank you for your always cordial replies.   I am sure will have more in the future.   I think i remember reading that you are from western Kentucky.   Maybe the lord will permit this S.E. Missouri boy to get to "know" you better someday.  Continue to...

Be Blessed 

The PuP 

Hey Da Puppers,

When I think of S.E. Missouri, I think of Branson.  We've been on some vacations out there, but it's been a while.  We are going to Gatlinburg, Tennessee the first week of November (just around the corner ), and it reminds me a lot of Branson.  It will be the first time we have been in the mountains during the fall.  Maybe if I ever get back out to Branson we can sit down over coffee...

[not an echo]

On 10/18/2021 at 11:57 PM, Marilyn C said:

On 10/18/2021 at 9:24 PM, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

Concerning your first paragraph, I notice that you did not include the specific phrase "the day of the LORD" in your list of phrases that you believe "God uses...regarding Assyria and Babylon."  So, once again, I am still wondering if you affirm or deny that there is any other "the day of the LORD" spoken of in Scripture, other than what is yet to be fulfilled.  Answer me that, straight up, and I will turn my attention to the rest of your post.

Hi not an echo,

I do believe the phrase `the day of the Lord,` is in some of those other scriptures, as in `the day of the Lord` of hosts. Not sure if there is specifically just that phrase elsewhere, `the Day of the Lord.` Maybe you can show me. 

Sorry if that was not clear before.

Hello Marilyn,

I'm minded to go on with your answer, but it still is not what I was looking for.  I'm surprised that you would indicate that you are "Not sure if there is specifically just that phrase elsewhere, `the Day of the Lord.`"  I will certainly be showing you, but some other things first.

First of all, in your previous post you had made these statements:  "I do agree that God uses the phrases `the wrath of the Lord, the day of His fierce anger, the day of the Lord God of hosts, ` regarding Assyria and Babylon.  However in Joel there is NO such nations mentioned. You therefore are ASSUMING it is them."  But, the "Russian Federation" that you have spoke so much of is not mentioned either.  Am I assuming more than you are assuming?  On the basis of what that you feel is more legit are you assuming what you are?  Just curious.

On to our discussion concerning the specific phrase, "the day of the LORD" (e.g., Joel 1:15;  Ezek. 30:3;  Oba. 15;  Zeph. 1:7), I have a long scenic path that I want to go down concerning this subject, but it will be simple (and I believe very interesting) all along the way.  The reason it will be long is because of the thorough and systematic approach that I will be taking.  I would like for you to join me all along the way, to point out what you would like to point out.

I think that where the water really meets the wheel for us concerns whether that Joel's five uses of the phrase the Day of the LORD only speaks to a future, last days' Day of the LORD judgment, or, if it also speaks of Day of the LORD judgments that happened in the 8th-6th centuries B.C.  I'm going to take it that you affirm the former and deny the latter.  Of course, it is quite evident that I believe the latter, that it speaks of both.  More specifically, I believe that Joel 1:1-2:11 speaks to the Day of the LORD judgment that has been fulfilled because the Israelites did not "Turn" (2:12-17) and did not meet the "Then" condition (2:18-27), which, if they had, would have been a game changer.  Moreover, beginning with 2:28, I believe that Joel's prophecy turns indeed to the future, last days' Day of the LORD judgment, which I believe is looming even now, in our day.  I believe we both agree on this Marilyn.  However, I'm taking it that you believe the whole of Joel's prophecy concerns only a future, last days' Day of the LORD.  I hope I'm not misrepresenting anything about your position.

Now, why do I believe as I do?  I believe as I do because of what I am seeing both internally (within the book of Joel itself, understood according to Scriptural concepts) and externally (in other places of Scripture, understood according to context).  I want to point out what I see internal to Joel first, then later, what I see external to Joel.  I also want to humbly acknowledge that I may be wrong or mistaken in my ultimate conclusions.  You (and all) will get to be your own judge on that.  Whatever the case, I hope it will be seen that another look is at least in order and that we all come to a better understanding of the truth.

I'm going to try to state my evidences concisely (I said try! ), but express them kinda like I would if I was teaching...

INTERNAL EVIDENCES

NUMBER 1---(Joel 1:1)  It's a hard proposition for me to swallow that Joel was shown what he was shown---when he was shown it---and that it did not connect hard with the children of Israel in his era---especially in consideration of the sin of God's chosen people.  To suggest that there was only ever a last days' Day of the LORD (DOTL) judgment in view is to me bizarre---especially with our nearly 3000 year perspective of retrospect.

NUMBER 2---(Joel 1:2-3)  It looks like to me that this is informing the "old men" and "the inhabitants of the land" that they haven't ever seen anything like they're gonna see.  According to the common last days' understandings, try this:  If you are pre-trib, pre-wrath, mid-trib, or post-trib in your rapture view, say to yourself what you are, or what you are closest to being and what your concept of the DOTL is relative to your view.  Got it?  Now consider:  The Israelites of Joel's era are told to tell their children of the experience.  Let's suppose you are of the common pre-trib view, as I once was.  Well, Joel's instruction concerning the experience of the DOTL would not be for you, but for those left behind, right?  So, they will begin to experience the DOTL, and some will even make it until Christ's Second Advent---seven years later.  Hmmm.  It's understandable that the reason for them to tell their children of it would be because they had not yet been born, or, they were too young to remember.  But further, the prophecy says, "let your children TELL THEIR CHILDREN, AND THEIR CHILDREN ANOTHER GENERATION."  We're talking about grand children and great grandchildren.  Seems to me that this would involve some time.  For the one holding to the common pre-trib view, Christ's Second Advent will happen some seven years later.  Seems to me that this would render the admonition empty or meaningless---unless it was meant for the Israelites of Joel's era, as is my position.  In this case, the admonition would be full, if you will.  For those holding to the other views, well, the time constraint closes in further.

NUMBER 3---(Joel 1:4-5)  What of this was not fulfilled in the Assyrian and/or Babylonian invasions?  Just before the Israelites entered the land of promise, they were told of the blessings they would receive for obeying God and the curses that would come upon them if they disobeyed (Deut. 28, esp. vss. 2 & 15/it's good to read the whole chp.).  When Daniel was in exile, he confessed his and his people's sins and acknowledged before God that what had happened to them was the result of the curses "written in the law of Moses" (Dan. 9:11-13).  Note these verses from Deuteronomy 28 (part of what is considered the law of Moses):

 38  Thou shalt carry much seed out into the field, and shalt gather but little in;  for the locust shall consume it.

 42  ALL thy trees and fruit of thy land shall the locust consume.

 49  The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth;  a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;

 50  A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favor to the young:

 51  And he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, UNTIL THOU BE DESTROYED:  which also shall NOT LEAVE THEE either corn, wine, or oil, or the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, UNTIL HE HAVE DESTROYED THEE.

And, just how bad would it be?

 53  And thou shalt eat THE FRUIT OF THINE OWN BODY, THE FLESH OF THY SONS AND OF THY DAUGHTERS, which the LORD thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee:

I think of the message Rabshakeh sent to Hezekiah, recorded in II Kings 19.  Note this from there,

 11  Behold, thou hast heard what the kings of Assyria have done to all lands, BY DESTROYING THEM UTTERLY:  and shalt thou be delivered?

A little further in the account, Hezekiah acknowledged before God that it was so...

 17  OF A TRUTH, LORD, the kings of Assyria have destroyed the nations and their lands.

Well, Hezekiah prayed for God to save them (vs. 19), and He did (vs. 35!).  But, that was Judah and the southern kingdom.  Samaria and the northern kingdom didn't get deliverance.  And later, neither did the southern kingdom.  Note what is fixing to be the case for them a little later, in II Kings 21...

 12  Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, BOTH HIS EARS SHALL TINGLE.

 13  And I will stretch over Jerusalem the line of Samaria, and the plummet of the house of Ahab:  AND I WILL WIPE JERUSALEM AS A MAN WIPETH A DISH, WIPING IT, AND TURNING IT UPSIDE DOWN.

I could go on and on, but I'm hoping maybe that that won't be necessary, at least concerning Joel 1:4-5.

Well, I had planned on getting a little further than this tonight, and now it's past my bedtime.  But, maybe this will make for a fair start down that path that I was talking about.

Anxious to hear your thoughts Marilyn...

Edited June 8, 2023 by not an echo

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

But, the "Russian Federation" that you have spoke so much of is not mentioned either.  Am I assuming more than you are assuming?

On to our discussion concerning the specific phrase, "the day of the LORD" (e.g., Joel 1:15;  Ezek. 30:3;  Oba. 15;  Zeph. 1:7),

INTERNAL EVIDENCES

NUMBER 1---(Joel 1:1)   To suggest that there was only ever a last day's Day of the LORD (DOTL) in view is to me bizarre---especially with our nearly 3000 year perspective of retrospect.

NUMBER 2---(Joel 1:2-3)  Hmmm.  It's understandable that the reason for them to tell their children of it would be because they had not yet been born, or, they were too young to remember.  But further, the prophecy says, "let your children TELL THEIR CHILDREN, AND THEIR CHILDREN ANOTHER GENERATION."  We're talking about grand children and great grandchildren.  

NUMBER 3---(Joel 1:4-5)  What of this was not fulfilled in the Assyrian and/or Babylonian invasions? 

Hi not an echo,

Thank you for your full reply. I`ve just highlighted the main points.

Assuming - yes you could call me saying that, however I do back it up by Ezekiel 38 & 39. Ezekiel talks about many people coming from the far north and invading Israel. And lots more detail.

Thank you for those other scriptures.

Ez. 30: 3 - the Day of the Lord concerning Egypt and king Neb.

Oba. 15 - the day of the Lord upon ALL nations, (Armageddon, Joel 3)

Zeph. 1_ 7, 14 ff - the day of the Lord, description.  3: 8 God gathering the nations (Armageddon) and deliverance for Israel, v. 14 - 20)

  

Point 1. - Israel will turn to the Lord after the Russian Federation is dealt with by God. 

`So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward.` (Ez. 39: 22)

`Blow a trumpet...gather, ...sanctify....weep... Then the Lord will be zealous for His land....I will no linger make you a reproach among the nations.` (Joel 2: 19)

That did not happen previously in any other `day of the Lord.`

Point 2 - the generations will know in the millennium.

 

[Keras]

The Day of the Lord’s blazing anger:

Isaiah 28:21 The Lord will arise as He did on Mt Perazim, [1 Chron. 14:11] and storm with rage as He did in the valley of Gibeon, [Joshua 10:9-15] to do what He must do, to perform a strange and alien task.

Isaiah 29:5 Suddenly, in an instant the horde of your enemies will crumble into dust, punishment will come from the Lord, with thunder, earthquakes, with storm and tempest and flames of devouring fire.

Isaiah 13:6-13 Cry out: for the Day of the Lord is at hand, it will come in a mighty destruction. Fear will grip everyone, men will lose courage at the coming disaster.    That cruel Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath is coming to reduce all the earth to a desolation and to destroy the evil and godless people on it. It will be a Day of darkness, on the day that the Lord brings disaster onto the world and due punishment to the wicked. He will put an end to arrogance and will humble the pride of the ruthless. Humans will become as scarce as fine gold, on the Day that the heavens will be moved and the earth shaken from its place, at the wrath of the Lord, in the Day of His blazing anger.  Ref. REB, some verses abridged.

 

As Isaiah tells us: The Lord has in the past acted to destroy His enemies and now, once again, He will act in His creation. Isaiah 42:14 Long have I restrained Myself. Isaiah 59:18, Isaiah 63:1-6, Isaiah 64:1-2, Psalms 68:1-2, Jeremiah 12:14, Deuteronomy 32:26-43

 

1/ The Lord will arise, to perform a strange task – to punish His enemies, the attackers of Israel and to humble the godless.  Isaiah 66:13-17

2/  Punishment will come from the Lord– not a nuclear war or anything instigated by man.

3/ Suddenly, in an instant – This is the event that ‘will come like a thief’.

4/.. earthquakes – Earthquakes will be caused by the microwave effect of the  electromagnetic pulse in a Coronal Mass Ejection. An explosion of the suns surface. Isaiah 30:26a, Psalms 50:1-3, Malachi 4:1

5/ devouring fire – The fireball of the superheated cosmic particles of a CME.

6/ the Day of the Lord is at hand – This is the logical result of most of mankind’s rejection of God and His Laws.

7/ Fear will grip everyone – This sudden and shocking event will terrify all those people unaware of God’s plans. Ezekiel 7:17

8/ a mighty destruction, to reduce the earth to desolation – A worldwide disaster, but it will particularly affect the Middle East area. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Ezekiel 30:1-5

9/ a day of darkness – The approaching mass will obscure the sun and stars.

10/ Humans will become scarce – Millions will die from the initial strike and millions more from famine and the fighting afterward.

11/ the heavens move – the magnetosphere and the atmosphere will be severely affected.

12/ the earth will shake from its place – the hit from this CME may cause the earths orbit to speed up, thereby giving us a 360 day year, which is the prophetic year.

13/ His blazing anger – It is appropriate that the Lord will use the sun, our life sustainer, to judge mankind. A CME solar flare perfectly and literally fulfils all the prophesied effects, but it will quickly pass by, leaving the world to recover. A world that will never be the same again and the stage will be set for all the other prophesied things to happen before the Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign.                                                                            

[not an echo]

On 10/20/2021 at 12:44 AM, Marilyn C said:

On 10/19/2021 at 11:26 PM, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

But, the "Russian Federation" that you have spoke so much of is not mentioned either.  Am I assuming more than you are assuming?

On to our discussion concerning the specific phrase, "the day of the LORD" (e.g., Joel 1:15;  Ezek. 30:3;  Oba. 15;  Zeph. 1:7),

INTERNAL EVIDENCES

NUMBER 1---(Joel 1:1)   To suggest that there was only ever a last day's Day of the LORD (DOTL) in view is to me bizarre---especially with our nearly 3000 year perspective of retrospect.

NUMBER 2---(Joel 1:2-3)  Hmmm.  It's understandable that the reason for them to tell their children of it would be because they had not yet been born, or, they were too young to remember.  But further, the prophecy says, "let your children TELL THEIR CHILDREN, AND THEIR CHILDREN ANOTHER GENERATION."  We're talking about grand children and great grandchildren.  

NUMBER 3---(Joel 1:4-5)  What of this was not fulfilled in the Assyrian and/or Babylonian invasions? 

Hi not an echo,

Thank you for your full reply. I`ve just highlighted the main points.

Assuming - yes you could call me saying that, however I do back it up by Ezekiel 38 & 39. Ezekiel talks about many people coming from the far north and invading Israel. And lots more detail.

Thank you for those other scriptures.

Ez. 30: 3 - the Day of the Lord concerning Egypt and king Neb.

Oba. 15 - the day of the Lord upon ALL nations, (Armageddon, Joel 3)

Zeph. 1_ 7, 14 ff - the day of the Lord, description.  3: 8 God gathering the nations (Armageddon) and deliverance for Israel, v. 14 - 20)

  

Point 1. - Israel will turn to the Lord after the Russian Federation is dealt with by God. 

`So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward.` (Ez. 39: 22)

`Blow a trumpet...gather, ...sanctify....weep... Then the Lord will be zealous for His land....I will no linger make you a reproach among the nations.` (Joel 2: 19)

That did not happen previously in any other `day of the Lord.`

Point 2 - the generations will know in the millennium.

Hello Marilyn,

I want to continue further down the path I spoke of.  Along the way, I hope to point out things that will make for more comprehensive answers to your responses.  Before heading out, I'm not really sure how what you point out answers mine.  I am, however, noting what appears to now be an acknowledgement on your part that there is another "'day of the Lord'" besides the last days' DOTL.  That's some progress.  As I see it, such an acknowledgement quite naturally would mean that which DOTL Joel is here or there speaking of should concern us, huh?

You made the statement concerning Joel 2:19 that "That did not happen previously in any other `day of the Lord.`"  I agree!  Remember what I said about the "Then..." condition of the previous verse?  What God desired to do and was willing to do (Joel 2:18-27) He did not do.  Why?  Because Israel did not "Turn..." (Joel 2:12-17) as He asked them to do.  But, one fine day, they'll see something (SOMEONE! ) like they've never seen, and, and, well Joel speaks to that in 3:16-21, as does Zechariah in 12:10, and as does others in other places.  If I don't watch out, I'm gonna get to preaching!

Concerning your Point 2 response, are you thinking that the instruction of Joel 1:2-3 is for the "old men" and all the "inhabitants of the land" for the time of the millennium?  I'm thinking a thought...

Well, I had planned to give three more internal evidences for this path that I'm on, but I ended up chasing a couple of rabbits.  It's hard for a country boy from Kentucky not to chase a rabbit!  And, I don't want to take a chance on losing an overly long post.  I take too many of them chances already.  And, I got a PM school bus route to do in a bit.  And, a Wednesday night church service to do tonight.  And, and---I ain't never gonna get done.  Maybe the Trump of God will sound today!  Then we can sit at the feet of Jesus later this afternoon and find out what we got wrong and what we got right.  Even so, come, Lord Jesus...

P.S.  I just LOVE them little "hurrah" emojis!

Edited June 8, 2023 by not an echo

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

 

You made the statement concerning Joel 2:19 that "That did not happen previously in any other `day of the Lord.`"  I agree!  Remember what I said about the "Then..." condition of the previous verse?  What God desired to do and was willing to do (Joel 2:18-27) He did not do.  Why?  Because Israel did not "Turn..." (Joel 2:12-17) as He asked them to do.  But, one fine day, they'll see something (SOMEONE! ) like they've never seen, and, and, well Joel speaks to that in 3:16-21, as does Zechariah in 12:10, and as does others in other places.  If I don't watch out, I'm gonna get to preaching!

 

Hi not an echo,

I do like those little fellas too. They brighten up the posts. Hope all went well at the meeting.

Now, yes when the Lord comes physically, Israel will certainly have the `ah, ha,` moment. However before the recognition of the Lord Israel does turn back to God.

`So I will make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel, and I will not let them profane my holy name any more. Then the nations shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel....

For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, (the northern army), in order to cleanse the land. indeed all the people of the land will be burying them and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified,` says the Lord God.

...So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward.` (Ez. 39: 7, 12 & 13,  22)

Marilyn.

[not an echo]

On 10/20/2021 at 4:16 PM, Marilyn C said:

On 10/20/2021 at 1:51 PM, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

 

You made the statement concerning Joel 2:19 that "That did not happen previously in any other `day of the Lord.`"  I agree!  Remember what I said about the "Then..." condition of the previous verse?  What God desired to do and was willing to do (Joel 2:18-27) He did not do.  Why?  Because Israel did not "Turn..." (Joel 2:12-17) as He asked them to do.  But, one fine day, they'll see something (SOMEONE! ) like they've never seen, and, and, well Joel speaks to that in 3:16-21, as does Zechariah in 12:10, and as does others in other places.  If I don't watch out, I'm gonna get to preaching!

 

Hi not an echo,

I do like those little fellas too. They brighten up the posts. Hope all went well at the meeting.

Now, yes when the Lord comes physically, Israel will certainly have the `ah, ha,` moment. However before the recognition of the Lord Israel does turn back to God.

`So I will make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel, and I will not let them profane my holy name any more. Then the nations shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel....

For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, (the northern army), in order to cleanse the land. indeed all the people of the land will be burying them and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified,` says the Lord God.

...So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward.` (Ez. 39: 7, 12 & 13,  22)

Marilyn.

Hello Marilyn,

Concerning your first line...

Concerning your other lines, I'm gonna need a little help with your take on them I guess.   Concerning the first verse you reference (from the translation you are using), how is it that "Then THE NATIONS shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel...."?  How do you have this working out, unless Christ's Second Advent has actually occurred?  Also, just before what appears to be your key reference (i.e.,...So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward.`/Ezekiel 39:22), we see what is said in the preceding verses, 17-21.  This sure does (to me) ring of what will happen in connection with the Battle of Armageddon (Rev. 19:17-21).  Does this not suggest to you that Christ's Second Advent will occur before the "from that day forward "?  If you are thinking that Ezekiel is giving a chronological run down of everything, there needs to be some consistency, don't you think?  The way it shapes up to me, what we have in Ezekiel 39 revolves around things that connect with the Battle of Armageddon and what will happen the first few months afterward, with sidebar statements along the way---but not necessarily in chronological order.  Can you see how that verses 17-22 ring of being a restated reinforcement of verses 4-7?

Edited June 8, 2023 by not an echo

[not an echo]

On 10/20/2021 at 12:44 AM, Marilyn C said:

On 10/19/2021 at 11:26 PM, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

But, the "Russian Federation" that you have spoke so much of is not mentioned either.  Am I assuming more than you are assuming?

On to our discussion concerning the specific phrase, "the day of the LORD" (e.g., Joel 1:15;  Ezek. 30:3;  Oba. 15;  Zeph. 1:7),

INTERNAL EVIDENCES

NUMBER 1---(Joel 1:1)   To suggest that there was only ever a last day's Day of the LORD (DOTL) in view is to me bizarre---especially with our nearly 3000 year perspective of retrospect.

NUMBER 2---(Joel 1:2-3)  Hmmm.  It's understandable that the reason for them to tell their children of it would be because they had not yet been born, or, they were too young to remember.  But further, the prophecy says, "let your children TELL THEIR CHILDREN, AND THEIR CHILDREN ANOTHER GENERATION."  We're talking about grand children and great grandchildren.  

NUMBER 3---(Joel 1:4-5)  What of this was not fulfilled in the Assyrian and/or Babylonian invasions? 

Hi not an echo,

Thank you for your full reply. I`ve just highlighted the main points.

Well, Marilyn, let's continue a little further down the path I've been speaking of, my focus still being on the...

INTERNAL EVIDENCES

NUMBER 4---(Joel 1:6)  The prophecy reads, "For A nation is come up upon My land..."  This does not dovetail well with a "Russian Federation" or "Meshech and Tubal" and "Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them" and "Gomer, and all his bands;  the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands;  and many people with thee" (Ezek. 38:3-6).  Seems to me that a "Russian Federation" would be plural by definition.

Earlier, with NUMBER 3, I pointed out that when Daniel was in exile, he confessed his and his people's sins and acknowledged before God that what had happened to them was the result of the curses "written in the law of Moses" (Dan. 9:11-13).  Notice what is said in Deuteronomy 28:

 49  The LORD shall bring A nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth;  A nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;

 50  A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young:

Then, in Jeremiah 5 notice,

 15  Lo, I will bring A nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the LORD:  it is A mighty nation, it is An ancient nation, A nation whose language thou knowest not, neither understandest what they say.

And from Jeremiah 6:

 22  Thus saith the LORD, Behold, a people cometh from the north country, and A great nation shall be raised from the sides of the earth.

 23  They shall lay hold on bow and spear;  they are cruel, and have no mercy;  their voice roareth like the sea;  and they ride upon horses, set in array as men for war against thee, O daughter of Zion.

I am not aware of anything else in Jeremiah concerning A nation such as this responsible for what is spoken of concerning Israel and Judah other than Assyria or Babylon.  Rather, it is stated explicitly that the nation being spoken of is Assyria, then Babylon.  I know that I often speak of Assyria and Babylon, but, when the DOTL began with the Israelites, it was the nation of Assyria first---against the northern kingdom---then Babylon---against the southern kingdom.  Like with the main brunt of A hurricane, there is destruction, then the eye, then the rest of the hurricane.  I wonder what people used to think before it came to be realized that a hurricane is one big storm.  Can you imagine people thinking the storm was over, and then, a couple of hours later thinking a second one had come---when in reality, it was the same storm?  Also, we are used to hurricanes being named.  I think we could appropriately name the "hurricane" that came through Israel and Judah in the 8th and 6th centuries B.C. as this:  "The Day of the LORD."  Note afresh from Jeremiah 50:

 17  Israel is a scattered sheep;  the lions have driven him away:  first the king of Assyria hath devoured him;  and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones.

NUMBER 5---(Joel 1:7-14)  On the basis of what (scripturally) can it be held that this did not occur?  Besides what I have already brought out in the course of this thread, it is enough for me that the term "desolate" is used concerning the state of Israel after what went down.  This is a very telling term that Joel used in both 1:17-18 and 2:3.  The term is used throughout Jeremiah (and elsewhere) as a cursory glance into your concordance will show.  And, all I am getting at here is that by the evidence of Scripture, what Joel here prophesied did indeed happen.  I think of what Jeremiah said that the cry was at that time:  "DESTRUCTION UPON DESTRUCTION is cried;  for the whole land is spoiled..." (4:20).  I think it is kind of interesting how that what happened is expressed in Isaiah 7...

 20  In the same day shall the Lord SHAVE WITH A RAZOR THAT IS HIRED, namely them beyond the river, BY THE KING OF ASSYRIA, THE HEAD, AND THE HAIR OF THE FEET:  AND IT SHALL ALSO CONSUME THE BEARD.

I submit that when God got through shaving Israel and Judah, He got every whisker---and more.  Again, I ask, on the basis of what (scripturally) can it be held that what Joel prophesied in 1:7-14 did not occur?  Now, I am not finished.  I aim to make stops at every place on the path that a stop is needful.  And, I've got at least 15 more stops to make.

NUMBER 6---(Joel 1:15)  Hey, on this one, I'm gonna hold myself to that thing of trying to state my evidences concisely!   The first half of the verse reads, "Alas for the day!  for the Day of the LORD is AT HAND."  For me, I just can't get 2800 plus years to harmonize with "at hand."

Right now, one thing I can get to harmonize with AT HAND is my bedtime!  I'm gonna be hittin' the sack in just a bit...

Edited June 8, 2023 by not an echo

[Marilyn C]

On 10/22/2021 at 4:56 AM, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

Concerning your first line...

Concerning your other lines, I'm gonna need a little help with your take on them I guess.   Concerning the first verse you reference (from the translation you are using), how is it that "Then THE NATIONS shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel...."?  How do you have this working out, unless Christ's Second Coming has actually occurred? 

Also, just before what appears to be your key reference (i.e.,...So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward.`/Ezekiel 39:22), we see what is said in the preceding verses, 17-21.  This sure does (to me) ring of what will happen in connection with the Battle of Armageddon (Rev. 19:17-21).  Does this not suggest to you that Christ's Second Coming will occur before the "from that day forward "?  If you are thinking that Ezekiel is giving a chronological run down of everything, there needs to be some consistency, don't you think?  The way it shapes up to me, what we have in Ezekiel 39 revolves around things that connect with the Battle of Armageddon and what will happen the first few months afterward, with sidebar statements along the way---but not necessarily in chronological order.  Can you see how that verses 17-22 ring of being a restated reinforcement of verses 4-7?

Hi not an echo,

As to the little fella with cross eyes, I can understand his dilemma. This is what I meant. We both agree that when the Lord comes physically and reveals Himself to the people in Jerusalem, that they receive Him because the Holy Spirit opens their eyes. (Zech. 12: 10) 

However before that time the nation of Israel turns again to God, (as they know Him, not to Jesus their Messiah, to whom they are still in darkness.) They turn to God because God saves them from destruction at the hands of the mighty Federation from the north. (Ez. 38: 21 - 23)

And yes I do see that there is similarity to that judgment and Armageddon. However the difference is that the first great earthquake is in Israel, while the other great earthquake at Armageddon is over the whole world. (Rev. 16: 18 - 21)

Also note where the sacrificial meal for the birds are in Ez. 39: 17 - 20 - `on the mountains of Israel,` while at the end of the trib, that will be in the valley of Jehoshaphat. (Joel 3: 12 - 14) 

Marilyn. 

[Marilyn C]

20 hours ago, not an echo said:

Well, Marilyn, let's continue a little further down the path I've been speaking of, my focus still being on the...

INTERNAL EVIDENCES

NUMBER 4---(Joel 1:6)  The prophecy reads, "For A nation is come up upon My land..."  This does not dovetail well with a "Russian Federation" or "Meshech and Tubal" and "Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them" and "Gomer, and all his bands;  the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands;  and many people with thee" (Ezek. 38:3-6).  Seems to me that a "Russian Federation" would be plural by definition.

Earlier, with NUMBER 3, I pointed out that when Daniel was in exile, he confessed his and his people's sins and acknowledged before God that what had happened to them was the result of the curses "written in the law of Moses" (Dan. 9:11-13).  Notice what is said in Deuteronomy 28:

 49  The LORD shall bring A nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth;  A nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;

 50  A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young:

Then, in Jeremiah 5 notice,

 15  Lo, I will bring A nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the LORD:  it is A mighty nation, it is An ancient nation, A nation whose language thou knowest not, neither understandest what they say.

And from Jeremiah 6:

 22  Thus saith the LORD, Behold, a people cometh from the north country, and A great nation shall be raised from the sides of the earth.

 23  They shall lay hold on bow and spear;  they are cruel, and have no mercy;  their voice roareth like the sea;  and they ride upon horses, set in array as men for war against thee, O daughter of Zion.

I am not aware of anything else in Jeremiah concerning A nation such as this responsible for what is spoken of concerning Israel and Judah other than Assyria or Babylon.  Rather, it is stated explicitly that the nation being spoken of is Assyria, then Babylon.  I know that I often speak of Assyria and Babylon, but, when the DOTL began with the Israelites, it was the nation of Assyria first---against the northern kingdom---then Babylon---against the southern kingdom.  Like with the main brunt of A hurricane, there is destruction, then the eye, then the rest of the hurricane.  I wonder what people used to think before it came to be realized that a hurricane is one big storm.  Can you imagine people thinking the storm was over, and then, a couple of hours later thinking a second one had come---when in reality, it was the same storm?  Also, we are used to hurricanes being named.  I think we could appropriately name the "hurricane" that came through Israel and Judah in the 8th and 6th centuries B.C. as this:  "The Day of the LORD."  Note afresh from Jeremiah 50:

 17  Israel is a scattered sheep;  the lions have driven him away:  first the king of Assyria hath devoured him;  and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones.

NUMBER 5---(Joel 1:7-14)  On the basis of what (scripturally) can it be held that this did not occur?  Besides what I have already brought out in the course of this thread, it is enough for me that the term "desolate" is used concerning the state of Israel after what went down.  This is a very telling term that Joel used in both 1:17-18 and 2:3.  The term is used throughout Jeremiah (and elsewhere) as a cursory glance into your concordance will show.  And, all I am getting at here is that by the evidence of Scripture, what Joel here prophesied did indeed happen.  I think of what Jeremiah said that the cry was at that time:  "DESTRUCTION UPON DESTRUCTION is cried;  for the whole land is spoiled..." (4:20).  I think it is kind of interesting how that what happened is expressed in Isaiah 7...

 20  In the same day shall the Lord SHAVE WITH A RAZOR THAT IS HIRED, namely them beyond the river, BY THE KING OF ASSYRIA, THE HEAD, AND THE HAIR OF THE FEET:  AND IT SHALL ALSO CONSUME THE BEARD.

I submit that when God got through shaving Israel and Judah, He got every whisker---and more.  Again, I ask, on the basis of what (scripturally) can it be held that what Joel prophesied in 1:7-14 did not occur?  Now, I am not finished.  I aim to make stops at every place on the path that a stop is needful.  And, I've got at least 15 more stops to make.

NUMBER 6---(Joel 1:15)  Hey, on this one, I'm gonna hold myself to that thing of trying to state my evidences concisely!   The first half of the verse reads, "Alas for the day!  for the Day of the LORD is AT HAND."  For me, I just can't get 2800 plus years to harmonize with "at hand."

Right now, one thing I can get to harmonize with AT HAND is my bedtime!  I'm gonna be hittin' the sack in just a bit...

Hi not an echo,

Good to look at the details. 

Number 4 - Now we, today see lots of `nations,` however the Hebrew word ``goy` means a massing, Gentiles. So no difficulty there.

Number 5 - `A people come great and strong, the like of whom has never been nor will there ever be any such after them,...` (Joel 2: 2)

`For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be...` (Matt. 24: 21)

Both of those scriptures are referring to `the Day of the Lord.`

Number 6 - `at hand` refers to the description already given. When those events are taking place it is the Day of the Lord.

Marilyn.