Revival of our faith!

[Kelly2363]

In the Outer Hebrides between 1949 and 1953, a work of God was seen; which being of such a magnitude of effects came to be called revival. When I lived in the Hebrides with my family on Mission I met numerous brethren who had been saved in revival.

Duncan Campbell spoke of Donald Macphail as the Evan Roberts of Lewis and said of him that through him more men were saved in revival in Lewis, than through any other man. Yet Donald was a boy of sixteen years. I knew Donald and fellowshipped with him in Arnol with his family. What struck me about this man was his quiet attitude. And even though he always laboured to see the work of salvation done in mission and in the church, his quietness was the witness that he understood that revival of God is always a matter for God. It is never a matter for men, save for obedient men and women who through prayer and intercession seek God for that evidence of His power in the revival of the Church and its effect of revival in communities in which the church is visible. It is for this reason that when I speak of revival, both of the church and of men, I mean the power of God, the awareness of God, and the evidence of God to save men, women and children; as well, to make His servants obedient and faithful.

You would think that all who are born again of the Spirit of God ought to be outwardly set in conduct and speech so as to bear witness to this power of God to save. Yet as I know in my own life, and have seen in the lives of many others, our witness is so often prescribed and has little to do with true liberty and godliness. If liberty and godliness are ours, then so also will be sound doctrine, good character and a fruitful life without being judgemental, burdensome and merciless. We will in those circumstances be less inclined to put chains on others, and realise that God has given us both an inner measure and an outer witness to what it means to be Christians to others, and bondservants of Christ.

The inner measure is the Cross unto death, and the outer witness is a true revival. It is the revival of the inner man through being identified with the Cross, and the outer man by the salvation of others. In all, it is God labouring in us both to will and to work according to His good pleasure. It is, therefore, the power of God in revival, from which power there is no escape, and by which power we are the workmen of God. All our work must be held in that quiet balance that Donald Macphail received when he was taken up in the power of the Holy Spirit and saw into heaven so that through a child it pleased God to save men.

How much more will God save many others through men and women in every place if they are obedient unto the death of the Cross, as Christ was obedient? Let our work be the work of the Church, let our churches be evidenced by the power of God to save others, and to see those saved grow into mature and fruitful servants of Christ. In all things let us also see that we too must become revived men and women.

[Kelly2363]

Revival is a term that many saints hold to to look for an answer to their own lives as well as the lives of other saints. The emphasis is sometimes broader and includes a revival of society generally. The question we must ask ourselves is how that way of looking at recovery is either helpful or else entirely accurate if we believe that revival is a panacea for the saints and society. When we examine the lives of the saints after restoration – also how society is changed after improvement – what will we see? We must be honest, and we must look. It is essential that when we do this, we also realise that the revivals that we can examine do not speak of the condition of today. They talk about the day in which they happened. And whilst they carry into the decades after revival, they are still outwith the day we live in. So whatever we do learn by looking at revival in the past, we must always hold to the condition of the day we live in to express our hope.

If we take the Welsh revival then we would speak of Evan Roberts as a focus for research, of China, we would talk of Watchman Nee and Scotland we would talk of Duncan Campbell. The one fact that separates these three revivals of God is so sobering that we cannot ignore it, and must say it from the very outset. China has never ceased to be revived – even when persecution was most present. Wales fell into death and moral depravity after revival. The Isle of Lewis fell back into darkness. Indeed Lewis is a very sobering account, and I could personally speak in terms witnessed in my walk, after revival, that would give us cause to tremble. Whereas China has remained on fire even during the most severe persecution.

I have a reason for saying these things, and that reason is entirely to do with Britain. If we ask ourselves the questions that are most pertinent to explaining how it is that all of God's sovereign work in revival of the saints can be so characteristically similar, so that almost every revival not only comes to an end but that its finale also marks the beginning of darkness once again, we would have to realise that the reason is because whilst God is sovereign in revival, his workmen are in authority in the Church. We do not have room here to explain this in great detail. What we can say is:

All revivals begin with a few men and women who pray, intercede and groan for the hand of God on his people, and they are all primarily directed at the condition of the churches, yet realising that the churches will be filled with new believers if revival comes. When that is established there is always God's promise on those few people. When the time comes for revival, that promise is held before God, and He is courageously asked to meet His part in that agreement.

Duncan Campbell reported that seventy percent of all the people who were saved in the revival of the Outer Hebrides were saved with no intervention of men. They neither heard the gospel, nor were witnessed to, neither did any man or woman direct them, neither could they explain how they came to be acting as they did when they gathered in hundreds outside churches, in fields, and homes, and outside police stations. All they knew was that they were taken by a means in which God did not contradict their needs, yet their needs were not met until God finished with them. They fell in fields whilst at work on the harvest, fell into ditches whilst going to social events, and were ministered to by children and by anyone who it pleased God to bring to them in their moment of salvation. Entire villages were swept by the hand of God and buildings were shaken, children were caught up in a triumph of obedience, and the Kingdom of Heaven was evidenced in such children, for as it is written, of such as these is the Kingdom of Heaven. God has perfected His praise in children.

It is no wonder that we see revival of God as an answer to the church and the nation. However, what we also need to know is that both in China in the late forties and early nineteen fifties, in Lewis in the late forties and into the fifties, as well as Wales in the first decade of the twentieth century, it was the Church and not merely the world that brought harm, injury and imprisonment of the benefit of revival by the means of men's weakness, by bitterness, by jealousy and by an instrument and effect of Satan. Some were falsely imprisoned by accusations, doctrine and unimaginable spiritual rebellion. In Lewis, doors were thrown shut in some churches as a real and visible rebellion, and the cry was to refuse God and despise His mercy.

The Mercy of God

Some of this rebellion was dealt with in the same way that God deals with all uprising in revival, He shows mercy and men are changed and become His true workmen. Committees and agreements, and an organised rebellion are evidenced in a time of revival, by the church. Moreover, when the hand of God is passed, it is the church that imprisons those who have been saved, so that by a jealousy of men, babes in Christ are set in chains. The same thing happened in China, and whilst others would be better witnessing of Wales, the same thing happened in Wales, also.

So here is the difference in China.

Before revival came, a few men and a few sisters were obedient. They laboured in their ministries, through their books and in their teachings all that which would be necessary for China, once Satan had the hand of imprisonment. Satan persecuted those men and women, when they bore in their bodies the cost – when they were despised by many, rejected by many, and where believers who could not be as they were, yielded to Communism – betrayed them – becoming slaves to oppression Their obedience, in books, prayers, fasting, teaching and suffering, laid a foundation. When the time of tribulation came, they paid a further price, and many gave their lives. All others who are appointed to salvation – and the church which is called to be Holy, as God is Holy – could endure unimaginable trials, to be always revived. In truth, their work was broader and deeper in preparation for revival, and so when it came, they were already in that crowd of witnesses and not a voice in the midst. Many of them never saw revival other than in a modest way of evangelism. Revival came after decades of Communist oppression, yet even those who were saved and nurtured in their day survived, and went underground. It has been their obedience based on the efforts and faithfulness of a few others before them that has given the revived church in China its ability to stay revived. At the heart of the labour of these early men and women, from the mid nineteen twenties, through to the early nineteen fifties, there has been one undoubted character. They embraced the cross unto death. And those who have followed them have remained in that same obedience.

To demonstrate this principle from the Scripture:

Christ says:

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself."

"After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, "I thirst!" Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit."

Then we read:

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

"Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church."

If we can fathom how it is that in Christ all men are included in His death and that He says, "It is finished!" And how Paul agrees with his inclusion in Christ's death, yet speaks that he fills up that which is lacking, or else behind in Christ's suffering, then we can understand the difference between the church in China and the churches in other places. If not then we are destined to see revival and little lasting effect. In that outcome, we will be changed for an hour and perhaps no more than that. Whereas we live at the end of the age and we must be changed permanently otherwise we will be caught up in unnecessary suffering, and may even betray Christ as some did in China, when others paid a full price of obedience, and through their willingness, the church in China has seen the fullest revival in any place.

[Kelly2363]

"In very different ways, Lin Pu-chi and Watchman Nee built a religious foundation that would prove to be sturdy enough to support the religious revival in China today. "Lin, Jennifer. Shanghai Faithful: Betrayal and Forgiveness in a Chinese Christian Family (p. 273). Rowman & Littlefield Publishers. Kindle Edition.

It is this statement by Jennifer Lin that I wish to speak about when I talk about the cost of laying hold of the foundation of Christ Jesus. Perhaps unexpectedly I am also mindful of Lin Pu-chi, because although he represents, in his day, the Anglican Church, his sincere faith reveals the mercy of God. In revival, God will speak to His whole house. He will use those men who are steadfast. And despite their failings, he will speak to all of his children. Lin Pu-chi to the Formal House, and Watchman Nee to the Informal House. This is a picture, and it is a reality of the present day, in China. If we are faithful, then it will be a testimony in our nation also.

When we speak of the cost of laying hold of the foundation of Christ Jesus, it may not be apparent what that means. Perhaps we would be inclined to think of the cost associated with being a Christian in a society that is becoming increasingly hostile to biblical truth. On the other hand, we may think about ourselves, and how we have been treated by other Christians. The first cost here is not apparent to many believers, especially in a western world where well-being tends to be associated with the property of personal possessions, and therefore where possessions give us a misguided sense of self-worth. Yet for all that, we may sense the difficulty that lies ahead if the direction of society continues as it is. The second cost is easier to understand if we have experienced wrongdoing through the Church, and where that wrongdoing has damaged our faith. Even in this regard, however, it may not be as clear to us as we think.

Another reality can be how life itself has treated us. This may include many experiences in our childhood, which whilst they are common in others experience, nevertheless in our own lives, weigh us down. Usually, this childhood experience falls into the realm of its psychological meaning, even when we learn later on that what we experienced as children may have had a spiritual implication of harm. The significant problem we have today, is not a lack of empathy with our childhood experiences, especially when they took the form of sexual abuse, physical and even mental abuse. It is merely that society does not have a spiritual remedy for these things and so promotes a psychological cure instead. What we can easily miss is that God does not give psychological solutions to our lives, He gives us a spiritual remedy.

Of Visions & Hope

The fact of the ministry and work of Christ, through the Cross, and the shedding of His blood for sin, is the separating effect, from sin, and the body of sin. We all too quickly see the blood, and that we are redeemed by it, but we miss the cross and its other meaning. It is not simply the blood of Christ shed for sin, which speaks of a propitiation, it is also death, which speaks of an end to real sin. You cannot take a dead man to the public-house for a drink – even when he was given over to its effect in his life. Dead men cannot drink.

Before we are destroyed by the sins into which we so easily fall when we are injured in life, and before we condemn others who stumble, we need to see that Romans chapter six, seven and eight lay down the fuller reality of our necessary walk if we are to be found faithful when we meet the Lord. The only remedy that God has given for physical sin in our lives is the cross. We also need to comprehend that in His mercy, God has also given us men and women, who though they also stumble, and through their stumbling, they cause others to stumble in season; nevertheless, they are given as examples and ministers through whom we can grow.

The foundation that is laid is Christ, and the House that is being built is by the apostles and prophets, wherein Christ is the chief cornerstone. In Lewis and Wales, in revival, there is no escaping that once Duncan Campbell and Evan Roberts were finished, very soon the church was brought back into imprisonment by others, and society was eventually brought back into darkness. When the hand of God passed by, then the effect of God is managed by the church. It is all the church. And we must see that whilst Duncan Campbell and Evan Roberts were not themselves guilty of any great sin, in China, Watchman Nee was dragged into prison and accused of every sin possible. He bore with that reproach and regardless of any sin that was to his account, his work and his books, as well the personal witness of those who knew him intimately, has given us a confident example of how God produces revival and continues in it through those men and women. As we seek God to address our own time, and the churches in our dominion we must learn from those whom God has given us.

It is a testimony to the goodness and mercy of God that He has also given us men and women today who by this same means serve to bear witness of that goodness and mercy of God. We must not despise that gift of men and women, neither must we fall into an accusatory spirit, as some have done. If we do, then like Judas, whom Christ said was a devil, which in Greek means an accuser, we too will accuse others, and the mercy and goodness of God will pass us by in a day wherein we have no more time to prevaricate. It is always the church that harms the church. Persecution does not harm the church.

[Kelly2363]

Now we come to the heart of the matter. Obedience does not mean something that seems equal to willingness. Obedience means compliance. What therefore is obedience? If we have a mind to know what obedience means, then we could look no further than to Christ Himself. Christ was obedient unto death.

"And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him. And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation. And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow, And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation."

Shortly after my conversion, I was reading this passage of Scripture (above), and a strange thing happened. For a few moments, it was as though I were a witness to Christ in this agony of prayer. Having just read this passage, I realised that the disciples were asleep from sorrow and yet by the Spirit it was possible to see what they had not seen with their eyes. I was so shocked that I began to feel a real sense of grief. How such things are possible I cannot say, other than the Father wanted me to know something essential. The sorrow that had pressed the disciples to sleep became for me waking grief. Even though I was physically in my room, and nearly more than nineteen centuries ahead of this event, for a moment I was present in a vision, and it was almost more than I could bear to see. I very nearly began to cry, and then the Father removed the vision, and I was transformed back into my own life.

Some days earlier I had been similarly transformed in the Spirit and found myself having visions of men and women healed out of their beds. Of hospitals finding no power to resist what was happening, and realising that there is no argument when a man or woman is raised from their bed in which they were to die, and found to be well and whole. Who can argue with that – no matter what the law speaks about preserving others dignity and beliefs in their sick beds? I also had visions of crowds of people hearing about the Lord in terms which were equal to addressing their many problems and weaknesses. I was a mere babe in Christ and a foolish young man of no worth. Yet by the Father's will, I saw into things in visions that pressed me into adoration and utter worship of God. One instant in such a mind and vision I suddenly realised that I was not seeing many unbelievers being saved, but many believers. Then I became momentarily confused, and like the young man I was, I rushed to the Father and asked Him what these things mean, and more especially why I saw these things. He told me, and so I found peace.

Of Visions & Hope

Another time whilst in the Spirit, and being utterly grateful to God for Christ, and seeing that I had been given everything that pertained unto eternal life, I boasted that there was nothing I would not do for God, as God had done everything for me. Suddenly I was in a vision, and the Lord was asking me if I would go 'this far' for Him. What I saw was myself being led down to the steps of a gallows to be hung by the neck. In an instant, my whole man, soul and body shrank back, and it seemed as if I were about to endure death. Forgetting that I was laid on my bed, I was compelled to address a certain outcome if I were obedient to my boast that I would do anything for God. For some moments I could not find a response outside my mind and body of fear, and then I found my spirit rising to the only answer that was possible. I said, "Lord if you are with me, I will do it." Then I found myself as I was throughout, on my bed. In this way by reading the Scripture and having visions the Lord taught me what obedience means. Not my own, but the obedience of Christ.

It would be all too easy to imagine that such visions and the teaching that comes from them make us spiritual men and women. If we do that – then what I know, because I know all the detail of my own life these past thirty-six years since these visions were received – visions cannot of themselves achieve anything. If they could, then I am not lying when I say that I would be a perfect man. However, I am not a perfect man, and I have stumbled in many ways. Unless we grasp that it is our walk of obedience that is the proof – no matter how much we have received – then we have judged ourselves in no way, and have taken our stand on things that cannot be held to our credit. And even is saying this, such a realisation brings us to who we are – and not who God would have us to become.

Our hearts may be right, but if our walk is faulty then are we not faulty? If we are sincere in our faith then visions that cause us to know God and Christ, only serve to press us into seeing that it is the flesh that hinders us. In that pressing we are inclined to condemn ourselves, and others being demonic in their thinking will crush us, and we will suffer needlessly. So we then rush to the other hand of our faith and we proclaim the blood, and we see the gift of God, and we enter into worship, and suddenly we overcome the flesh, and for one hour we see what it means to be sons of the living God. We become excited and we encourage one another, and by the end of it, we have missed the Cross unto death. Thus being again pressed into the flesh by refusing the Cross we go back to our living faith, we once again judge ourselves and once again we are weighed down, and others once again crush us. When we see the shedding of Christ's blood for sin, we find hope, yet if we will not accept that Christ also died for sin, we miss our deliverance.

"For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause. For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again."

[Kelly2363]

When we conclude what we are saying we always seem to want a childish conclusion – which is to say we want pictures of words and even then we want simple pictures. And if we will not give childish pictures, others naturally feel cheated. It is always so – even to the extent that I began this ministry with these words:

"And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able."

All of our ministries must be in the love of God. If I ran a sweet shop how could I not see that the child does not need my direction on how to like my sweets – once they have tasted them? I do not need to paint pictures in words, neither wrap them in golden coats – nor even set them out further than the glass jars that contain them. The child can see for themselves how pleasing they are. If I am a kind shopkeeper, I may share just sufficient to help the child to choose for themselves. Once eaten no child needs to be told anything. They will rush back into my shop and excitedly demand the thing they have eaten and know to be good. Such is our attitude to the blood of Christ. And despite that this is childish, it is pleasing to God, because it was for this reason that Christ died. Otherwise, we could not be saved at all. One day I then tell the child that they must now ask for meat. Am I then to be held abusively because I must speak the full council of God, even to the child that has eaten my sweets and whom I love?

Perhaps I will give the child something of my produce which is unlike a sweet at all, yet neither is it meat. Ordinarily, every child finds a natural direction in life, and although my sweets will be a remembrance, I do not expect to see men coming into my shop and behaving like children unless they are ill. So I keep the sweets that are also medicine and store them on the higher shelves. The children, their sweets are always right on the counter. They need to see childish things – men who are ill need to know that I have remedies for their illnesses, but all others need to eat meat. How is it that we are always coming into the sweet shop for sweets when we ought to be eating meat by now? How is it that we cannot see that if we persist in childishness in the day we live in, in the end the Father will hand us over to judgement by the hand of the prophets who have warned us of our condition?

I have often wondered why the Father carried me away in the Spirit and gave me a sight of the Mount of Olives and Christ kneeling in an agony of prayer. At the time it seemed almost too much to bear. I was newly saved – I had just eaten of the sweets – and suddenly here before me was meat. God is merciful. The way that He took me from the immediate burden of that vision was to stir me to realise that were it not for the Holy Spirit it would not have been possible to see that which was witnessed by angels at the time, and not men at all. The disciples were asleep with the effect of their burden in knowing what Christ had told them. They had come from the supper table, Judas was now entered into a full and irredeemable betrayal of Christ, and Satan had entered into him. Then suddenly my entire outward vision was transformed, and I found myself looking into the face of an angel. He looked at me and pulled a silly face in agreement, that were it not for the Holy Spirit, I could not have seen what I had seen. I burst into laughter and was thus delivered from the burden. As a child in remembrance, I can easily remember the sweets. Now I must eat the meat as well. We must all of us take this same attitude because of the hour in which we labour.

"Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground."

When Revival Comes

If we cannot see in these words of Scripture, that it is after Christ was strengthened by angels, that Christ continued in an agony of prayer, after which His sweat was as great drops of blood falling to the ground, then we may see nothing more than what became visible to all men when He was publicly crucified. If that is all we can see – then we are yet children. If we do look into the garden we may imagine that the garden speaks of the shedding of His blood – And even though it is like His blood, it is not the visible and easily comprehended blood that He shed on the cross. Neither is it the calm man who asked the Father to forgive those that crucified Him – neither is it the man who having finished His work asked for a drink and then gave His spirit unto the Father. This is what I was given to see as a babe in Christ and now I can understand its meaning. If we took the same place of the Father in heaven, in our attitude, then we would labour more faithfully.

If we did that, then when the bell rang on our shops, and the children entered for our sweets, we would immediately realise that many of them are blind. We would realise that only the child who makes a pretence thinks otherwise. Yet even then we would show mercy. We would take our jars, remove their lids and speaking well of the contents we would bring them under their noses and they, smelling the sweet aroma and hearing the wonderful words, would as children eat and be content. Only then will the blind see. If we boast of the colour of our sweets, speak well of the jars, wrap our sweets in golden coats and play endless sounds to stir the child to give us their money, then we are become like thieves.

If we then boast in their salvation and cannot see that they still enter into the sweet shop – that though they can see yet they cannot labour as men who have sight, and endlessly stumble into the pain of their lives, then we may look to the hope of our reward in hope, and miss that it will be well short of what the Father intended us to receive. If we imagine that seeing as many children come to us and we have a testimony and do not and will not see their endless condition, then we are worthless, though we may have been called to great things.

The reality we all face is that the general condition of the churches is not of our making. We may well have stumbled ourselves and thereby given others a basis to accuse us and in doing so, to harm themselves. We may also have suffered many injuries both in life and in the church. So when we first stood in the sweet shop, we may have been overwhelmed, not by innocent children so much, as overgrown babes. Of whom many are already bitter, angry and wounded. In short, they are carnal.

We may well see that we can go outside our shops and cry out to other children and then, seeing their delight when we gave them that which they could lay hold of innocently, we may also have rejoiced and thanked God for their salvation. But we will never be able to drive the other children who are still babes in Christ and overgrown babes, out of the shop and into the street. If we do, either by our attitude in turning away from them or else as others have done when they have rejected them with a cold heart, then we become necessarily accusers.

We must find a way to labour according to the real condition of the place we dwell. If we do not do that, then we are saying that God had rejected others, when He did not reject ourselves even though we cannot see clearly what harm we have done by our carnality. 

Rhomphaeam

Edited September 17, 2021 by Kelly2363
Removed Designated Ministry Data

[Kelly2363]

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

Yes, I too agree that all who are born of the Spirit of God ought to be outwardly set in conduct and speech so as to bear witness to this power of God to save. Can you therefore explain to me and perhaps others how your use of the "Oy Vey" feature does that, how it outwardly bears witness to God's power to save?

Ephesians 4:29-32
"Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.  Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.  Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.  Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you."

 

I think that the "Oy Vey" feature simply provides for a means to express exasperation without restoring to personal acrimony. 

[Kelly2363]

13 minutes ago, Josheb said:

What do you make of the premise an internet post could be found exasperating?

 

Perhaps it would be simpler to have quoted the context and then you would have found my position of myself. 

5 hours ago, Kelly2363 said:

You would think that all who are born again of the Spirit of God ought to be outwardly set in conduct and speech so as to bear witness to this power of God to save. Yet as I know in my own life, and have seen in the lives of many others, our witness is so often prescribed and has little to do with true liberty and godliness.

 

If that is not sufficient then you may have to resort to prayer. To answer your question now - then it seems likely that almost anything could be exasperating - giving rise to a sense of grief or frustration. That is the meaning of "Oy Vey" and so it does seem reasonable to use it - rather than expressing grief or frustration in some circumstances and that may be in truth where exasperation comes from. When one expresses oneself in a spirit of grief and frustration and then are rejected that is exasperating.  

Edited September 18, 2021 by Kelly2363

[Kelly2363]

4 hours ago, Josheb said:

Perhaps it would be simpler to just answer the question asked. 

Or I could ask the person reporting to be exasperated to explain himself and provide the opportunity to be forthcoming, to provide an opportunity for him to be outwardly set in conduct and speech so as to bear witness to this power of God to save.

Then let me respectfully suggest this is reflective of an over-investment in cyberspace, potentially risking falling prey to idolatry. None of us know each other. We're trading posts with folks who are posting hundreds and thousands of miles apart from one another and coming from very diverse perspectives. If I find myself frustrated with something I read in the internet it is probably because I've frustrated my own expectations, not that a complete stranger I've never met is frustrating me. It's a Luke 6:45 condition. 

Let me share something I Dietrich Bonhoeffer once wrote I find useful when negotiating Christian cyber-conversations. Please forgive the length. I hope you find this useful and edifying. 

 

”Christianity means community through Jesus Christ and in Jesus Christ. No Christian community is any more or less than this… We belong to one another only through and in Jesus Christ. What does this mean? It means, first, that a Christian needs others because of Christ. It means, second, that a Christian comes to others only through Christ. It means, third, that in Jesus Christ we have been chosen from eternity, accepted in time, and united for eternity. First, the Christian is a man who no longer seeks his salvation, his deliverance, his justification in himself, but in Jesus Christ alone. He knows that God’s word in Jesus pronounces him guilty, even when he does not feel his guilt, and God’s word in Jesus Christ pronounces him not guilty and righteous, even when he does not feel that he is righteous at all. The Christian no longer lives of himself, by his own claims and his own justification. He lives wholly by God’s word pronounced upon him, whether the word declares him guilty or innocent.”

 

”In Christian brotherhood everything depends upon its being clear right from the beginning, first, that Christian brotherhood is not an ideal, but a divine reality. Second, that Christian brotherhood is a spiritual and not a psychic reality.”

 

”He who loves his dream of a community more than the Christian community itself becomes a destroyer of the latter, even though his personal intentions may be ever so honest and earnest and sacrificial.”

 

”The first condition [of praying together], which makes it possible for an individual to pray for the group, is the intercession of all the others for him and for his prayer. How could one person pray the prayer of the fellowship without being steadied and upheld in prayer by the fellowship itself? At this very point, every word of criticism must be transformed into fervent intercession and brotherly help.”

 

”Often we combat our evil thoughts most effectively if we absolutely refuse to allow them to be expressed in words. It is certain that the spirit of self-justification can be overcome only by the Spirit of grace, nevertheless, isolated thoughts of judgment can be curbed and smothered by never allowing them the right to be uttered, except as a confession of sin… He who holds his tongue in check controls both mind and body (Jms. 3). Thus it is a decisive rule of every Christian fellowship that each individual is prohibited from saying much that occurs to him… to speak about a brother covertly is forbidden, even under the cloak of help and good will; for it is precisely in this guise that the spirit of hatred among brothers always creeps in when it is seeking to create mischief.”

 

“Where this discipline of the tongue is practiced right from the beginning, each individual will make a matchless discovery. He will be able to cease from constantly scrutinizing the other person, judging him, condemning him, putting him in his particular place where he can gain ascendancy over him and thus doing violence to him as a person. Now he can allow the brother to exist as a completely free person, as God made him to be. His view expands and, to his amazement, for the first time he sees, shining above his brethren, the richness of God’s creative glory. God did not make this person as I would have made him. He did not give him to me as a brother for me to dominate and control, but in order that I might find above him the Creator. Now the other person, in the freedom with which he was created, becomes the occasion for joy, whereas before he was only a nuisance and an affliction. God does not will that I should fashion the other person according to my image; rather in his very freedom from me God made this person in His image. I can never know beforehand how God’s image should appear in others. That image always manifests a completely new and unique form that comes solely from God’s free and sovereign creation”

 

”…he who can no longer listen to his brother will soon be no longer listening to God, either; he will be doing nothing but prattle in the presence of God, too. This is the beginning of the death of the spiritual life, and in the end there is nothing left but spiritual chatter and clerical condescension arrayed in pious words… Anyone who thinks his time is too valuable to spend keeping quiet will eventually have no time for God and his brother, but only for himself and for his own follies.” (from "Life Together")

 

I will pray for you.