What if others will be in heaven?

[Marathoner]

On 10/2/2021 at 10:20 AM, Amigo42 said:

The more I learn about the historic and cultural context in which the Bible was written, the more I realize that we really don't know as much as we think.

What if people will be in heaven who we thought would not be like some Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus?  This might seem heretical, but what if people are saved by the blood even if they don't realize it.  There are people who live righteous lives up to the knowledge they have.  Yes, Jesus is the only way.  However, the patriarchs did not know Jesus such as Moses, David, etc. Yet, these people are saved.  This is food for thought.

Christ is the only way; He holds the keys to Death and Hades. All will be judged by Him for all things were created by Him and for Him, so we grasp the truth which is universal: He is the First and the Last. The dead shall stand before His throne to be judged. 

We are seated with Him, my friend. We, who were shown mercy and perished with Him, were raised with Him in newness of life and so we have already been judged by the Lord. Indeed, the Spirit of Christ judges us daily, conforming us to the image of Jesus Christ from glory to glory until that day when the perfect shall come. This has everything to do with power of God and nothing to do with ourselves, for if this were our labor then we would have occasion to boast! 

Many will be astonished on that day when Christ judges the dead. As you say, others will be granted life... so what does this mean? They will inhabit the new earth for as the scripture testifies, He makes all things new. The Lord has mercy upon those whom He shows mercy, and it's our place to extol His righteous judgments. We are His holy nation of kings and priests after all.  

 

Edited October 3, 2021 by Marathoner

[DeighAnn]

On 10/2/2021 at 9:20 AM, Amigo42 said:

The more I learn about the historic and cultural context in which the Bible was written, the more I realize that we really don't know as much as we think.

What if people will be in heaven who we thought would not be like some Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus?  This might seem heretical, but what if people are saved by the blood even if they don't realize it.  There are people who live righteous lives up to the knowledge they have.  Yes, Jesus is the only way.  However, the patriarchs did not know Jesus such as Moses, David, etc. Yet, these people are saved.  This is food for thought.

Hi Amigo,

Have you read the last few chapters of Ezekiel?  Gives us a good description of what life will look like for those who made it and those who have 1000 years to come to life/Christ and no longer be spiritually 'dead' as EVERYONE who hasn't been saved is).  We know it will all take place on earth because that is where Christ is returning to.  

We know that those who were with the Lord will be returning with Him as the army and those who won't be returning  return with him experienced

Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

so what happens to all those who died before the final generation?  It is easy to figure out what happens to them of the final gen, but what about previous?  

2000 years ago Christ conquered death and went and preached and led the captivity opened the graves so those who had died under the law aka in sin could accept the Messiah as their Saviour and be washed clean (no sin, no death) and to the right side of paradise go.  I don't believe Lazarus and rich man is just a parable but a description (when you read of the river in Ezekiel you will find it can't be crossed over either, just like that gulf here if that makes any sense).  

Anyway it tells of the Priests that serve the Lord, those who serve the people and the nations that come to worship.  Hope this helps to answer some of the questions.  

 

[David1701]

59 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

Indeed, there is only one way: the Son of the living God, who is the Judge of both the living and the dead and the Almighty. It's clear from the testimony of the scriptures and the words of our Lord that there is more than one meaning associated with "the dead;" the dead are those who are not in Christ. 

Our brother @Waggles has shared relevant scripture which testifies that the dead will be resurrected (the second resurrection), judged, and some will be granted life by the Judge of both the living and the dead upon His throne. As for the living, those who will never taste death? We shall be with Him, for we will judge angels. Our part is the first resurrection and our inheritance is the Lord Himself. 

We are already seated with Christ in the heavenly places and we reign with Him, His holy nation of kings and priests. This is our inheritance promised by the Son of God.  The dead will be judged according to their works and as the scripture informs us, some will be granted life. Who are we to question the righteous judgment of God?

 

Here is the portion from Revelation about the Great White Throne judgment of the wicked.

Rev. 20:11-15 (KJV)

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. 

There is absolutely nothing here about anyone from this judgment being saved.  These people are judged according to their works; but, by works shall no flesh be saved, as the Bible tells us in many places.

Why is the book of life opened here?  To show that these people's names are not in it.

[Guest]

Best deal with your own soul's destiny and don't concern yourself with anyone else's. God is judge of all of us and knows our hearts, it's not our problem. 

I think if anyone has been clearly exposed to the gospels, but chooses to reject Jesus, then they are likely clearly to pay the price. Nothing you or I can do for them. 

 

[Kelly2363]

This heresy of Universalism is having the effect of causing many, particularly young saints, to believe that they can live as they please. It is however not exclusive to the youth. It is a growing effect of the working of Satan. The effect is heresy because it is separating those who already believe from the truth of Scriptures regarding the importance of our present conduct. The coming kingdom of Christ will be a kingdom of authority and will be understood in that way by all who have a part in it, even as it is understood now by those who labour toward it. No one however, who today, takes the name of Christ, and yet lives to please themselves always, will find an easy entrance therein. Being born from on high with a new life is the spiritual minimum for entrance into this kingdom of God and Christ (John 3:3).

Those who teach Universalism are become an undoubted heretic and should be withstood prophetically and prayerfully. Otherwise many may be left wondering if they find no entrance into the kingdom; whether their name is written in the book of life. God takes no delight in the destruction of the creature. Neither should we. Any man, who in the end, having cause to wonder such a terrible thing, may be found wondering from hell or outer darkness, during the 1000 year kingdom of Christ, where separation from God is a torment and darkness is a patiently enduring, and the fearful expectation of judgement. To be the cause of stumbling is no trivial matter. Those who cause stumbling should flee from it, as from Gods wrath. The only remedy against this heresy of Universalism is a true knowledge of God' word and a faithful and obedient walk. Always taking account of the flesh and its endless lusts and desires; which if we walk in them will rob us of our righteous inheritance in Christ and bring His holy name into discord amongst men at His appearing. 

It is important that we understand that this lie of Universalism did not originate with a man or with men. The originator is the opponent of God. He is the father of lies as well as the father of liars. Those who believe his lies in this world. by believing become his children. Having been set free from this world and delivered unto Christ to be His possession, we must resist entanglement with the world. When the full effect of Satans working has come in, it will be to an abominable effect. Its name is the mystery of iniquity. A man standing in the Holy Place declaring himself to be god and causing blasphemies to be spoken which will become a terror to all men. 

Today its effect is the tending to apostasy. It is the falling away from the simplicity of faith in Christ alone. Having been taught by the apostles from the beginning; is now being rejected to a full effect in our day. 

Edited October 3, 2021 by Kelly2363
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[Hopefully]

On 10/2/2021 at 12:20 PM, Amigo42 said:

The more I learn about the historic and cultural context in which the Bible was written, the more I realize that we really don't know as much as we think.

“Those who think they know something do not yet know anything as they should.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭8:2‬ ‭
 

 

[Waggles]

Romans 2:12  For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 
13  For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 
14  For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 
15  They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 
16  on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. 

The spirit of man is the lamp of the LORD, searching all his innermost parts.  Proverbs 20:27

And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.  Hebrews 4:13

[Kelly2363]

5 minutes ago, Josheb said:

I'm fairly confident some Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus will be in heaven. They will be there because they believed in Jesus. Jesus, as you just posted, is the only way. The Bible does not explain a lot about how those who did not have the Tanakh or the Bible might know the gospel or be saved but it is an assumption on the part of the exclusionists - not the rest of us - that such a thing is impossible, doesn't happen, can't happen, or won't happen. The reason these complete failure in logic occurs is probably because exclusionists probably thing the Bible is about humanity and that is the filter through which scripture is read.

 

How will some Muslims believe in Christ to a claim of being found in heaven at the end of the age when their Jesus is Isa Al'Masih - a mere prophet and a thing that even the Pharisees recognised when they cried we have no King but Caesar?

Even as Qur'an (The Recitation) rebukes the Jews when they boasted to Muhammed that they crucified Christ in Jerusalem Surah 4:157-158 wherein Muhammed expressly denies the death of Christ and ascribes it as a false understanding prescribed by God and intentionally set to deceive  - and the בני קוריט'ה‎; (Banu  Qurayza) paid with their generations the penalty of death for standing with their belief that Muhammed was not a prophet - regardless of their certainty that their forefathers did indeed crucify Christ by the hand of evil men.

If the Muslim is given a vision of their Isa Al'Masih then their faith is removed from Islam and becomes Christ where the vision is a true vision of Christ. What could be said of Hindus - at best is acharya (the Christ Spirit) and of Buddhists it is a similar lie. 

So I ask by what power will the Mulsim and the hindu and the Buddhist be found in heaven? 

 

[David1701]

On 10/2/2021 at 5:20 PM, Amigo42 said:

The more I learn about the historic and cultural context in which the Bible was written, the more I realize that we really don't know as much as we think.

What if people will be in heaven who we thought would not be like some Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus?  This might seem heretical, but what if people are saved by the blood even if they don't realize it.  There are people who live righteous lives up to the knowledge they have.  Yes, Jesus is the only way.  However, the patriarchs did not know Jesus such as Moses, David, etc. Yet, these people are saved.  This is food for thought.

Moses, David, and the other OT saints, were saved by grace, through faith in the Messiah to come.

There is none righteous in God's sight, no, not one.

Rom. 3:10-19 (KJV)

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes. 
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and other idolaters, are on their way to hell, which is one of the reasons why missionaries go and preach the gospel to them.

Edited October 3, 2021 by David1701

[Waggles]

2 minutes ago, Kelly2363 said:

So I ask by what power will the Muslim and the Hindu and the Buddhist be found in heaven? 

Actually no one goes to Heaven.

The meek and the righteous shall inherit the Earth.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Waggles