The Difference between Daniel 2 and Daniel 7.

[WilliamL]

On 10/22/2021 at 6:16 PM, Marilyn C said:

Those who hold the view that 4 beasts are past empires overlook these facts -

1. The `beasts` `shall arise` (Dan. 7: 17) Babylon had already arisen.

2. The fourth beast treads down the others. Rome could not do that because the governments of those former empires were no more.  (Dan. 7: 7)

3. The first 3 beasts kingdoms were given an extension of life after the 4th was judged. (Dan. 7: 11 & 12)

4. The timing is when the Lord sets up His rulership through Israel over the nations.  (Dan. 7: 26 & 27)

1) "shall arise" is only one possible translation of the Imperfect verb. Another translation is merely "arise": the NKJV and other versions use this. That translation does not include the presumption of a future fulfillment, as in the KJV.

2) Daniel 7:7 does not say that "the fourth beast treads down the others."

3) Babylon, Persia/Iran, and Greece will still exist after Rome/the Great Whore is utterly destroyed, burnt with fire.

4) "The timing" of the judgment "is when the Lord sets up His rulership through Israel over the nations.  (Dan. 7: 26 & 27)" This is not the timing of the arising of the original beast-kings/kingdoms.

[Andriya]

What if the empires mentioned in Daniel 2, Daniel 7, Revelation 13 and Revelation 17 are the same?

Rev. 17:10 talks about five fallen heads, and I speculate that they could be the following empires: 1) Babylon (Dan. 2:38) 2) Persians (Dan. 7:4 / Dan. 2:39) 3) Medes (Dan. 7:5 / Dan. 2:39) 4) Greeks (Dan. 7:6 /  Dan. 2:40) 5) Romans (Dan. 7:7 /  Dan. 2:41)

The 6th head is the Kingdom of God, by which all preceding heads are fallen, which means: according to Rev. 12:7, spiritual power is transferred to the Kingdom of God (Mt. 28:18). This event is likewise described as a deadly wound given to one of the aforementioned heads.

The 7th head (Rev. 17:10) is the false prophet during the last days. The fact that the false prophet will be able to work wonders and to delude the nations is tantamount to the healing of the deadly wound (for a little season, as described in Rev. 20:3).

Edited November 4, 2021 by Andriya

[Markie51]

The dreams revealed to King Nebuchadnezzar and the prophet Daniel are the same prophecies:  Babylon (present-at that time); and, future dominate powers: Media-Persia, Greek and Roman-with the exception that Daniel 's dream does not mention a symbolic beast for the seventh kingdom compared to the "feet" in Nebuchadnezzar's.  The "feet" or seventh power is present on the world scene now.  It is a duel power: United States and Great Britain.  Revelation 17:9, 10 is also referring to these two Dreams/prophecies. 

 

[Marilyn C]

On 10/26/2021 at 5:19 AM, WilliamL said:

1) "shall arise" is only one possible translation of the Imperfect verb. Another translation is merely "arise": the NKJV and other versions use this. That translation does not include the presumption of a future fulfillment, as in the KJV.

2) Daniel 7:7 does not say that "the fourth beast treads down the others."

3) Babylon, Persia/Iran, and Greece will still exist after Rome/the Great Whore is utterly destroyed, burnt with fire.

4) "The timing" of the judgment "is when the Lord sets up His rulership through Israel over the nations.  (Dan. 7: 26 & 27)" This is not the timing of the arising of the original beast-kings/kingdoms.

The governments of ancient Babylon, Persia/Iran and Greece (& Rome) do NOT exist as they were all judged by God.

`God has numbered your kingdom, and finished it...` (Dan. 5: 26) (Medes and Persians taking over from Babylon.)

And the same with all the others.   

[Marilyn C]

[Marilyn C]

[WilliamL]

On 8/13/2022 at 12:51 AM, Marilyn C said:

The governments of ancient Babylon, Persia/Iran and Greece (& Rome) do NOT exist as they were all judged by God.

But the spiritual powers/sarim DO still exist, and still influence their respective nations:

Dan. 7:9 “I watched till thrones were put in place, and the Ancient of Days was seated... 10 ...The court was seated,
And the books were opened. ...  11 I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time."

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

But the spiritual powers/sarim DO still exist, and still influence their respective nations:

Dan. 7:9 “I watched till thrones were put in place, and the Ancient of Days was seated... 10 ...The court was seated,
And the books were opened. ...  11 I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time."

I agree William that the spirit powers, (demonic) are still there, however God is talking about man`s kingdoms in Dan. 7.

`The fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom on earth,....` (Dan. 7: 23)

[WilliamL]

2 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

I agree William that the spirit powers, (demonic) are still there, however God is talking about man`s kingdoms in Dan. 7.

`The fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom on earth,....` (Dan. 7: 23)

Thanks for your thoughts about this. A quote from my latest blog fits here:

" Daniel 7:3 speaks of “four great beasts coming up from the sea.” Verse 17 tells us, “Those great beasts…are four kings.” Verse 23 tells us, “The fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom on earth…” Therefore – speaking prophetically – “beasts” and “kings” may symbolize powerful spirits that rule over kingdoms or empires on earth. "

The kingdoms of Daniel 7 are earthly personifications of collective spirits. Just as the the spirit called Legion that Jesus cast out of the demoniac said of himself, "My name is Legion: for we are many."

This is a concept that few people grasp, the idea that spirits can be collective beings which manifest in different forms. Including as kingdoms that personify them; or as human rulers that are possessed by them.

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Thanks for your thoughts about this. A quote from my latest blog fits here:

" Daniel 7:3 speaks of “four great beasts coming up from the sea.” Verse 17 tells us, “Those great beasts…are four kings.” Verse 23 tells us, “The fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom on earth…” Therefore – speaking prophetically – “beasts” and “kings” may symbolize powerful spirits that rule over kingdoms or empires on earth. "

The kingdoms of Daniel 7 are earthly personifications of collective spirits. Just as the the spirit called Legion that Jesus cast out of the demoniac said of himself, "My name is Legion: for we are many."

This is a concept that few people grasp, the idea that spirits can be collective beings which manifest in different forms. Including as kingdoms that personify them; or as human rulers that are possessed by them.

Hi William,

Yes I also believe that demonic spirit powers have sway over nations. In Daniel 7 we see `the four winds of heaven were stirring up the Great Sea.` (Dan. 7: 2) In Hebrew the word `wind` is the same as `spirit.` Then over in Zechariah 6 we read that those four spirits are `These are four spirits of heaven, who go out from their station before the Lord of all the earth.` (Zech. 6: 5) They are God`s powerful angels that bring about the four great Federations of our time. 

We read of the beginnings of these four Great Federations in Dan. 7, then in Rev. 6 we see them just before the tribulation, and in Rev. 13 how they are brought together with the most terrifying one ruling over them. Zech. was shown that the four powerful angelic spirits were bringing the four Federations to judgment. 

Every Prophet was given some part of the whole picture. The main trail is the Father bringing the nations to His Son`s feet for judgment. (Ps. 110: 1) All the other parts are just the detail of that.

Marilyn.