The Difference between Daniel 2 and Daniel 7.

[Marilyn C]

 

I believe these two chapters contain great insight into what God is doing in these times of the end of the Gentiles Ruling the world.

 

Daniel 2 reveals a Great Image that symbolises the whole of the Gentile`s rulership by 5 World Rulers. Four world Rulers have come and gone. Their governments have been found wanting and God dealt with them. They were - Babylon, Medes & Persians, Greece and Rome. We do not see these governments anymore and God does not revive those people that ruled.

The last world ruler has yet to emerge. When it does it will be a divided kingdom, and the last before God sets up His kingdom rule through Israel.

 

Daniel 7 on the other hand reveals great powers that arise one at a time just before God sets up His kingdom rule. These great powers continue all at the same time till finally the last one gains power over the others and becomes the world Ruler. This last one matches the `divided kingdom` of Daniel 2.

Thus God has given us an overview of the times of the Gentiles ruling the world, (Dan. 2) and then also the great powers heading up to the final Gentile world ruler.

 

I see that knowing the difference enables one to clearly see what is happening in our world today. However those who confuse the two chapters, it seems, are always confused and conjecturing about what is happening.

So let`s discuss Daniel 7`s great beastly powers and see if they relate to the final Gentile Global Government that is forming.

 

 

[Marilyn C]

I believe that God not only knows who the great powers of our day are, but that He reveals them in His word. God the Father said to His Son, -

`Sit at my right hand till I make your enemies your footstool.` (Ps.110: 1)

So looking at the nations of the world and the Global Institutions and Forums we see that the G 7/8 is the main one. Those in the G 7/8 are the main ones in the G 20 and also control the UN. Thus we need to look at who are the main powers in the G 7/8.

The G 7/8 - Britain & America, Russia & Europe.

These the world calls the `Big Four, or the `Quartet of Power`. The UN is included however the others control it.

Now I believe, (& was taught, `70`s) that Daniel 7 reveals these Great Powers of our day, just before the Lord sets up His rulership through Israel. In our time these four kingdoms/Federations are phenomena. They come up one at a time and are concurrent with each other.

Daniel saw them in a vision of four beasts, which God tells us, are four kingdoms. (Dan.7: 23)

The first was represented by a Lion with eagle wings. The wings were plucked off and the Lion was given a heart of a man and told to stand on its feet. (Dan. 7: 4) We know that the British Empire was huge, controlling over a quarter of the earth. America came from this great Empire, `broken off,` and became a separate nation though would often be in alliance with it.

In the `50`s the British Empire became a Commonwealth of Nations, ` a man`s heart was given it,` referring in Political language to co-existing in freedom, peace and equality.

Thus we see that the first great power of our day, the British Commonwealth with America coming from it, is symbolized by the Lion with eagle`s wings. These emblems are easily recognizable as relating to those great powers.

 

[Last Daze]

On 10/17/2021 at 12:05 AM, Marilyn C said:

I see that knowing the difference enables one to clearly see what is happening in our world today. However those who confuse the two chapters, it seems, are always confused and conjecturing about what is happening.

Hi Marilyn,

My view of Daniel 7 is that it describes the four evil angel princes that have come up out of the abyss.  The sea is a metaphor for the abyss.  These princes cause world kingdoms to exercise dominion.  The kingdoms described in Daniel 2 are the kingdoms that they spawned.

The four evil angels of Daniel 7 brought about the first four kingdoms of Daniel 2 in sequential order.  The feet of iron and clay is a joint effort between all four with the fourth beast taking the lead.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Last Daze,

Thank you for your comments. Now can you prove from scripture this view?

 

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Last Daze,

Thank you for your comments. Now can you prove from scripture this view?

 

I can explain why I think that.  The sea being a metaphor for the abyss can be see when you compare Rev 13:1 with Rev 17:8

• Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten crowns, and on his heads were blasphemous names.  Rev 13:1
• The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who live on the earth, whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was, and is not, and will come.  Rev 17:8

This is talking about the fourth beast of Daniel 7.  Also compare Romans 10:5-7 with Deut 30:11-13.  Sea and abyss are used interchangeably, probably because the sea was perceived as bottomless like the pit of the abyss.

Concerning evil angels influencing earthly kingdoms, Daniel 10 illustrates that when it refers to the prince of Persia, an evil angel who was hindering an angel sent from God.  The prince of Greece is also mentioned.

[Marilyn C]

4 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I can explain why I think that.  The sea being a metaphor for the abyss can be see when you compare Rev 13:1 with Rev 17:8

• Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten crowns, and on his heads were blasphemous names.  Rev 13:1
• The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who live on the earth, whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was, and is not, and will come.  Rev 17:8

This is talking about the fourth beast of Daniel 7.  Also compare Romans 10:5-7 with Deut 30:11-13.  Sea and abyss are used interchangeably, probably because the sea was perceived as bottomless like the pit of the abyss.

Concerning evil angels influencing earthly kingdoms, Daniel 10 illustrates that when it refers to the prince of Persia, an evil angel who was hindering an angel sent from God.  The prince of Greece is also mentioned.

Hi Last Daze,

Yes I can see your thinking there. Rom. 10: 5 - 7 I agree is quoting some of Deut. 30: 11 - 13. The NKJ has `abyss & sea,` while the KJ has `deep. & sea.`

 

However the Rev. 13: 1 beast represents the Final Gentile Global Government - 10 crowned horns, & 7 heads.

The sea represents the wicked - `the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest...` (Isa. 57: 20)

 

Whereas the beast that comes out of the abyss is Satan. He is described as - 10 horns, 7 heads with diadems. 

Different descriptions there.

[WilliamL]

15 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Whereas the beast that comes out of the abyss is Satan. He is described as - 10 horns, 7 heads with diadems. 

Nowhere in Revelation does it say that Satan will come out of the Abyss; rather, it says that he will be cast down out of heaven. 12:7-10

The only biblical references to those in the Abyss refer to the rebellious fallen angels who were cast into the Abyss/Tartarus at the time of the Flood.

 

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Nowhere in Revelation does it say that Satan will come out of the Abyss; rather, it says that he will be cast down out of heaven. 12:7-10

The only biblical references to those in the Abyss refer to the rebellious fallen angels who were cast into the Abyss/Tartarus at the time of the Flood.

 

Hi William,

There is a king over those fallen angels, called, Apollyon, (Rev. 9: 11).Gk. `Apolluon,` meaning destroyer, which describes some of Satan`s activities - devouring, destroying, deceiving, deluding. (Rev. 12: 9 - Satan, great dragon, devil, Serpent of old.)

The `bottomless pit` represents containment by God. Thus when they are `cast out of heaven,` (the universal authority realm of principalities and powers, Col. 1: 16) that refers to Satan and the fallen angel`s authority being lessened. They could always come on the earth but when God `casts them out` they are contained even more.

BTW there were no fallen angels cast into the pit at the flood. They were all contained by God before that when they were cast out of the (higher) angelic realm.

[WilliamL]

On 10/19/2021 at 3:33 PM, Marilyn C said:

BTW there were no fallen angels cast into the pit at the flood.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;

Peter shows that these were contemporary acts.

 

Now, regarding the dream of Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 2, and the dream of Daniel in Daniel 7, the (old) view I accept is this:

the former dream was from the perspective of a Gentile ruler, who saw the kingdoms as glorious things; versus

the latter dream was from the perspective of a man of God, who saw the kingdoms as the abominable things that they really are;

-- but "the dreams are one." Gen. 41:26

[Marilyn C]

On 10/22/2021 at 6:14 AM, WilliamL said:

2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;

Peter shows that these were contemporary acts.

 

Now, regarding the dream of Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 2, and the dream of Daniel in Daniel 7, the (old) view I accept is this:

the former dream was from the perspective of a Gentile ruler, who saw the kingdoms as glorious things; versus

the latter dream was from the perspective of a man of God, who saw the kingdoms as the abominable things that they really are;

-- but "the dreams are one." Gen. 41:26

Hi William,

So are these contemporary acts? 

`the Spirit of the Lord is upon me,.....to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God.` (Isa. 61: 2)

We know that there are thousands of years in between. Thus we need to look at all of scripture in relation to the topic.

Yes in Gen. 41: 26 was are told that the dreams are `one.` However in Dan. 2 & 7 we are NOT told that.

 

Those who hold the view that 4 beasts are past empires overlook these facts -

1. The `beasts` `shall arise` (Dan. 7: 17) Babylon had already arisen.

2. The fourth beast treads down the others. Rome could not do that because the governments of those former empires were no more.  (Dan. 7: 7)

3. The first 3 beasts kingdoms were given an extension of life after the 4th was judged. (Dan. 7: 11 & 12)

4. The timing is when the Lord sets up His rulership through Israel over the nations.  (Dan. 7: 26 & 27)

Marilyn.