Catholics and Salvation

[halifaxchristian]

Hello worthyboards...my name is michael and I am a worthyboards addict. I have been reading for about 4 months now up to 15 threads a day... Liked that one fiosh...so I decided to steal it! (is that a mortal sin??? )

Anyway...I really need to get to sleep but I'll be back tomorrow, Lord willing of course.

I missed you also fiosh...and I'm not sure why??? I thought it was agreed upon...me and you hate each other don't we??? When did the rules change???

See ya tomorrow...God bless!

[Fiosh]

Hello worthyboards...my name is michael and I am a worthyboards addict.  I have been reading for about 4 months now up to 15 threads a day...   Liked that one fiosh...so I decided to steal it!  (is that a mortal sin??? )

Anyway...I really need to get to sleep but I'll be back tomorrow, Lord willing of course. 

I missed you also fiosh...and I'm not sure why???  I thought it was agreed upon...me and you hate each other don't we???     When did the rules change???

See ya tomorrow...God bless!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Catholics don't hate---we can go to hell for that.

Nite nite.

Back to my mopping.

F

PS. All kidding aside....it is a wondrous thing that when we love Jesus, He finds a way to bring us together as family, even when we vehemently disagree with each other. I love Jesus. You love Jesus. Winning combination. Love you, brother.

[Aim_64bIT]

It aught to be easy to set aside the false teachings of Romanism. But churchianity is a hard habit to break. In order to have an open mind toward the issue we must heed the words of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

(Mark 7:7 KJV)

Having said that, I have quoted below two verses. Because they are so clear in meaning, they do not need to be debated over. Why, therefore, does the RCC violate them by calling an individual "holy father" and holding Mary as mediator?

Matthew 23:9 KJV

(9) And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Acts 4:12 KJV

(12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Then, on the doctrine of baptismal regeneration (which is pagan btw), we have Mark 16:16, which, in no way teaches that we must be baptized to be saved. It teaches that if one does not believe in Jesus Christ as his Saviour, he is damned no matter how many times he is baptized.

I think this would be good too. Baptisms, just like alms, cannot make clean.

But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you.

(Luke 11:41 KJV)

There are churches that bicker the method of baptizing to such an degree its ridiculous. Some say only in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Some in Jesus Christ name only. Some require rebaptism if backslidden. Some baptize three times: each in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Ghost. Some say you must call upon the name of the Lord while being baptized. Some say you must believe that the water is transformed into Jesus' blood. I knew a fella that thought he was going to hell because the preacher, when he baptized him, didn't get wet the top of his head, as if it were his achilles head (told you baptismal regen was pagan). Some believe you must be baptized in their church exclusively. The list goes on and on...

Each one of these people believes in something different... they can't agree with each other... and if you don't get baptized with just the right formula you are, in their eyes, damned to everlasting fire. They just can't tear their churchianity free.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

(Mark 16:16 KJV)

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

(John 8:24 KJV)

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

(Isaiah 43:10-11 KJV)

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

(Isaiah 42:8 KJV)

The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

(Jeremiah 7:18 KJV)

Edited September 5, 2005 by Aim_64bIT

[Fiosh]

Hi Aim,

RE: "call no man father"

This is one instance where it is clear that this in not meant literally.

If you check your Concordance you will find several passages where

father (small "f" ) is used.

Even most Protestants will agree on this one.

Peace,

Fiosh

[Trust & Obey]

Hi Aim,

RE:  "call no man father"

This is one instance where it is clear that this in not meant literally.

If you check your Concordance you will find several passages where

father (small "f" ) is used.

Even most Protestants will agree on this one.

Peace,

Fiosh

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fiosh, Jesus is speaking about calling people your "spiritual fathers." We all have a flesh and blood father... God says "honor your father and mother." So, it isn't unbilbical to recognize our fathers according to the flesh. It is only when we refer to someone as "our father" in a spiritual sense, i.e. Catholic Priest/Pope, that this command of Jesus is violated.

[Fiosh]

Hi Aim,

RE:

[Aim_64bIT]

Then why did Jesus get Baptised if it isn't necessary?

Why did Jesus Christ keep the law? He is our advocate with the Father. He stands in the gap for us.

The argument "what good is it to be baptised if it doesn't save" is not a very good one because, first of all, it is made in the wrong spirit.

[Assisi]

It aught to be easy to set aside the false teachings of Romanism.  But churchianity is a hard habit to break.  In order to have an open mind toward the issue we must heed the words of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

(Mark 7:7 KJV)

Having said that, I have quoted below two verses.  Because they are so clear in meaning, they do not need to be debated over.  Why, therefore, does the RCC violate them by calling an individual "holy father" and holding Mary as mediator?

Matthew 23:9 KJV

(9)  And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Acts 4:12 KJV

(12)  Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Then, on the doctrine of baptismal regeneration (which is pagan btw), we have Mark 16:16, which, in no way teaches that we must be baptized to be saved.  It teaches that if one does not believe in Jesus Christ as his Saviour, he is damned no matter how many times he is baptized. 

I think this would be good too.  Baptisms, just like alms, cannot make clean.

But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you.

(Luke 11:41 KJV)

There are churches that bicker the method of baptizing to such an degree its ridiculous.  Some say only  in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.  Some in Jesus Christ name only.  Some require rebaptism if backslidden.  Some baptize three times: each in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Ghost.  Some say you must call upon the name of the Lord while being baptized.  Some say you must believe that the water is transformed into Jesus' blood.  I knew a fella that thought he was going to hell because the preacher, when he baptized him, didn't get wet the top of his head, as if it were his achilles head (told you baptismal regen was pagan).  Some believe you must be baptized in their church exclusively.  The list goes on and on... 

Each one of these people believes in something different... they can't agree with each other... and if you don't get baptized with just the right formula you are, in their eyes, damned to everlasting fire.  They just can't tear their churchianity free.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

(Mark 16:16 KJV)

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

(John 8:24 KJV)

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

(Isaiah 43:10-11 KJV)

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

(Isaiah 42:8 KJV)

The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

(Jeremiah 7:18 KJV)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then, on the doctrine of baptismal regeneration (which is pagan btw), we have Mark 16:16, which, in no way teaches that we must be baptized to be saved. 

The vast majority of Christians (i.e. Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists, etc.) believe that Baptism is regenerational -- that is to say, that the Sacrament itself transforms the person by "water and the Word," (cf. Eph 5:26) thus adopting that person into the Body of Christ and making that person a participant in the very same Sonship which Christ Himself enjoys with the Father (Romans 8:15-17, Galatians 4:6-7).

From earliest times, literally every Church Father including in the writing of the four that were instructed by the Apostles , as well as every orthodox Christian scholar until the Protestant reformation, understood Baptism as regenerational. This included Martin Luther and most of the Protestant reformers who followed him.

Do you take Scripture seriously?

1 Peter 3:21-22 --- "This prefigured Baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body, but an appeal to God for a clear conscious, through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ ..."

Acts 2:38 -- "Peter said to them, 'Repent and be Baptized, every one of you, in the Name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.' "

Mark 16:16 -- "Whoever believes and is Baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned."

In Acts 2:38, Baptism is clearly associated with the forgiveness of sins:

"Repent and be Baptized, every one of you, in the Name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

[Aim_64bIT]

Matthew 13:29

Edited September 6, 2005 by Aim_64bIT

[Smalcald]

I think he does take scripture seriously, but his TRADITION of scriptural interpretation downplays this command of Christ.

It has more to do with how theology has developed since 1700 than it does the bible or how the original Christians worshipped. Now, this particular tradition may be valid I am not knocking it, I don't know for sure. But certainly someone who does not esteem baptism as a command from Christ cannot say that they are holding to the bible alone.